[Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 192, Issue 17

Fri Jan 24 21:49:51 EST 2020

Richard - Let me know when you have the KL simulator running. I did get
Tops-10 running on simh on my mac. I am eager to run TOPS-20 again.

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 6:01 PM <simh-request at trailing-edge.com> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1.  Tops-20 4.1 on simh PDP-10:  trouble during install (Tom Russo)
>    2.  load (Kevin Handy)
>    3. Re:  Tops-20 4.1 on simh PDP-10:  trouble during install
>       (Richard Cornwell)
>    4. Re:  load (Paul Koning)
>    5. Re:  Tops-20 4.1 on simh PDP-10:  trouble during install
>       (Tom Russo)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 16:03:03 -0700
> From: Tom Russo <russo at bogodyn.org>
> To: simh at trailing-edge.com
> Subject: [Simh] Tops-20 4.1 on simh PDP-10:  trouble during install
> Message-ID: <20200124230303.GA49712 at bogodyn.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I'm a new simh user, and have mostly been using it to relive my youth
> on PDP-11s.  But I also had played with TOPS-20 back in those misspent
> days, and wanted to see if I could have my own, fully realizing that
> SIMH can't run later versions of TOPS-20 because it simulates a KS10.
> Still, I am having trouble getting past the first few steps of the install.
>
> I am starting from the install document at
>
> http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/pdp10/TOPS20/V4.1_Feb83/AA-P346A-TM_KS_Install_4.1_Feb83.pdf
>
> I have downloaded the install tape from
>
> http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tapes/bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap.bz2
>
> I use this "install.ini" file (cribbed from
> https://gunkies.org/wiki/Running_TOPS-20_V4.1_under_SIMH):
>
> set cpu tops-20
> d wru 006
> att tu  bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap
> set rp rp06
> att rp t20.dsk
> boot tu
>
> at which point I'm greeted with the expected MTBOOT> prompt.  I then do:
>
>
> MTBOOT> /L
> MTBOOT> /G143
>
> and basically say Y to all the questions:
> [FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TYPE "?" TO ANY OF THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS.]
>
> DO YOU WANT TO REPLACE THE FILE SYSTEM ON THE PUBLIC STRUCTURE? Y
>
> DO YOU WANT TO DEFINE THE PUBLIC STRUCTURE? Y
>
> HOW MANY PACKS ARE IN THIS STRUCTURE: 1
>
> ON WHICH "CHANNEL,UNIT" IS LOGICAL PACK # 0 MOUNTED: 0,0
>
> DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SWAPPING SPACE? Y
>
> DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SIZE FRONT END FILE SYSTEM? Y
>
> DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SIZE BOOTSTRAP AREA? Y
>
> [STRUCTURE "PS" SUCCESSFULLY DEFINED]
>
> [PS MOUNTED]
> ?PS UNIT 0 HAS NO BAT BLOCKS.
> DO YOU WANT TO WRITE A SET OF PROTOTYPE BAT BLOCKS? Y
>
> %%NO SETSPD
>
> System restarting, wait...
>
>
> At this point, the simulator just sits there for hours, never giving the
> date/time question the installation guide says I should get next.  It does
> seem that the install process has at least initialized the disk image, and
> if
> I reboot and tell it to skip all of those filesystem initialization steps,
> it blasts right to the %%NO SETSPD and "System restarting" steps, whereupon
> it hangs again.
>
> I'm running simh off of today's current git master branch.  I have compiled
> it both on FreeBSD and on Ubuntu 16.04 with identical results (so I am not
> assuming it's just a FreeBSD incompatibility issue).
>
>
> I see plenty of old references to running TOPS-20 4.1 on SIMH, and no
> such references to this apparent hanging of the simulator at a very
> early stage in installation.  Has anybody got this running?  Am I missing
> something blindingly obvious somewhere?
> --
> Tom Russo    KM5VY
> Tijeras, NM
>
>  echo "prpv_a'rfg_cnf_har_cvcr" | sed -e 's/_/ /g' | tr [a-m][n-z]
> [n-z][a-m]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 16:26:46 -0700
> From: Kevin Handy <khandy21yo at gmail.com>
> To: Simh <simh at trailing-edge.com>
> Subject: [Simh] load
> Message-ID:
>         <CANk4W2MXtUen9GtS7ck4UW_tqS0KN25ANMS=
> 8tqy9H_wOZsg7Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I was watching some youtube videos about the PiDP-11, and they all seemed
> to end up typing in a hand-assembled program into the emulator.
>
> It got me  to thinking about the macro11 assembler in simtools, however
> that program only appears to output object files, not binary ones. simh
> appears to only accept binary filesm not object files.
>
> Is there some way to bridge the gap? Is there some method to bridge he gap?
> marco11 to output binary files, a linker to convert object files to binary
> ones, or simh to accept object files.
>
> For the PiDP-11 users, they could prooblbly work from a listing where a
> hard-coded base address is given, but others might want to try something
> that is too long to want to key it in.
>
> If this is already possible, some documentation on the process would be
> useful. This would also make simtools more useful.
>
> This applies to all the other emulations that have assemblers available
> also.
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 20:17:09 -0500
> From: Richard Cornwell <rich at sky-visions.com>
> To: simh at trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] Tops-20 4.1 on simh PDP-10:  trouble during
>         install
> Message-ID: <20200124201709.4de093e3.rich at sky-visions.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Hi Tom,
>
>   While I have not tried Tops-20 on the KS10, I do have versions 2
>   through 7 running on my unreleased KL10 simulator. I am still
>   resolving issues, I should be releasing it in a month or two.
>
>    I think you need to hit ^C after the NO SYSJOB.
>
> Rich
>
> > I'm a new simh user, and have mostly been using it to relive my youth
> > on PDP-11s.  But I also had played with TOPS-20 back in those misspent
> > days, and wanted to see if I could have my own, fully realizing that
> > SIMH can't run later versions of TOPS-20 because it simulates a
> > KS10. Still, I am having trouble getting past the first few steps of
> > the install.
> >
> > I am starting from the install document at
> >
> http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/pdp10/TOPS20/V4.1_Feb83/AA-P346A-TM_KS_Install_4.1_Feb83.pdf
> >
> > I have downloaded the install tape from
> >
> http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tapes/bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap.bz2
> >
> > I use this "install.ini" file (cribbed from
> > https://gunkies.org/wiki/Running_TOPS-20_V4.1_under_SIMH):
> >
> > set cpu tops-20
> > d wru 006
> > att tu  bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap
> > set rp rp06
> > att rp t20.dsk
> > boot tu
> >
> > at which point I'm greeted with the expected MTBOOT> prompt.  I then
> > do:
> >
> >
> > MTBOOT> /L
> > MTBOOT> /G143
> >
> > and basically say Y to all the questions:
> > [FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TYPE "?" TO ANY OF THE FOLLOWING
> > QUESTIONS.]
> >
> > DO YOU WANT TO REPLACE THE FILE SYSTEM ON THE PUBLIC STRUCTURE? Y
> >
> > DO YOU WANT TO DEFINE THE PUBLIC STRUCTURE? Y
> >
> > HOW MANY PACKS ARE IN THIS STRUCTURE: 1
> >
> > ON WHICH "CHANNEL,UNIT" IS LOGICAL PACK # 0 MOUNTED: 0,0
> >
> > DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SWAPPING SPACE? Y
> >
> > DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SIZE FRONT END FILE SYSTEM? Y
> >
> > DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SIZE BOOTSTRAP AREA? Y
> >
> > [STRUCTURE "PS" SUCCESSFULLY DEFINED]
> >
> > [PS MOUNTED]
> > ?PS UNIT 0 HAS NO BAT BLOCKS.
> > DO YOU WANT TO WRITE A SET OF PROTOTYPE BAT BLOCKS? Y
> >
> > %%NO SETSPD
> >
> > System restarting, wait...
> >
> >
> > At this point, the simulator just sits there for hours, never giving
> > the date/time question the installation guide says I should get
> > next.  It does seem that the install process has at least initialized
> > the disk image, and if I reboot and tell it to skip all of those
> > filesystem initialization steps, it blasts right to the %%NO SETSPD
> > and "System restarting" steps, whereupon it hangs again.
> >
> > I'm running simh off of today's current git master branch.  I have
> > compiled it both on FreeBSD and on Ubuntu 16.04 with identical
> > results (so I am not assuming it's just a FreeBSD incompatibility
> > issue).
> >
> >
> > I see plenty of old references to running TOPS-20 4.1 on SIMH, and no
> > such references to this apparent hanging of the simulator at a very
> > early stage in installation.  Has anybody got this running?  Am I
> > missing something blindingly obvious somewhere?
>
>
>
> --
> ==========================================================================
> Richard Cornwell
> rich at sky-visions.com
> http://sky-visions.com
> LinkedIn:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-cornwell-991076107
> ==========================================================================
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 20:19:37 -0500
> From: Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net>
> To: Kevin Handy <khandy21yo at gmail.com>
> Cc: Simh <simh at trailing-edge.com>
> Subject: Re: [Simh] load
> Message-ID: <324A5BE9-4A6C-4704-AC86-F4272AE4E4AF at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> > On Jan 24, 2020, at 6:26 PM, Kevin Handy <khandy21yo at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was watching some youtube videos about the PiDP-11, and they all
> seemed to end up typing in a hand-assembled program into the emulator.
> >
> > It got me  to thinking about the macro11 assembler in simtools, however
> that program only appears to output object files, not binary ones. simh
> appears to only accept binary filesm not object files.
> >
> > Is there some way to bridge the gap? Is there some method to bridge he
> gap? marco11 to output binary files, a linker to convert object files to
> binary ones, or simh to accept object files.
> >
> > For the PiDP-11 users, they could prooblbly work from a listing where a
> hard-coded base address is given, but others might want to try something
> that is too long to want to key it in.
> >
> > If this is already possible, some documentation on the process would be
> useful. This would also make simtools more useful.
> >
> > This applies to all the other emulations that have assemblers available
> also.
>
> This probably isn't quite what you're looking for, but if not it could be
> tweaked.
>
> For running parts of the GCC test suite for the PDP11 target, I wanted to
> be able to run its output on SIMH.  Here is a simple Python program that
> turns Unix style a.out files (the archaic PDP11 flavor rather than the
> later flavor used in some other platforms) into DEC standard paper tape
> binary loader files that SIMH will accept.
>
>         paul
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 18:20:59 -0700
> From: Tom Russo <russo at bogodyn.org>
> To: Richard Cornwell <rich at sky-visions.com>
> Cc: simh at trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] Tops-20 4.1 on simh PDP-10:  trouble during
>         install
> Message-ID: <20200125012059.GA55365 at bogodyn.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 08:17:09PM -0500, we recorded a bogon-computron
> collision of the <rich at sky-visions.com> flavor, containing:
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> >   While I have not tried Tops-20 on the KS10, I do have versions 2
> >   through 7 running on my unreleased KL10 simulator. I am still
> >   resolving issues, I should be releasing it in a month or two.
>
> That should be pretty cool.  I look forward to it.
>
> >    I think you need to hit ^C after the NO SYSJOB.
>
> I never get to a NO SYSJOB anywhere.  It hangs right at
> "System restarting, wait..."
>
> ^C does nothing at that stage.
>
>
> > Rich
> >
> > > I'm a new simh user, and have mostly been using it to relive my youth
> > > on PDP-11s.  But I also had played with TOPS-20 back in those misspent
> > > days, and wanted to see if I could have my own, fully realizing that
> > > SIMH can't run later versions of TOPS-20 because it simulates a
> > > KS10. Still, I am having trouble getting past the first few steps of
> > > the install.
> > >
> > > I am starting from the install document at
> > >
> http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/pdp10/TOPS20/V4.1_Feb83/AA-P346A-TM_KS_Install_4.1_Feb83.pdf
> > >
> > > I have downloaded the install tape from
> > >
> http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tapes/bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap.bz2
> > >
> > > I use this "install.ini" file (cribbed from
> > > https://gunkies.org/wiki/Running_TOPS-20_V4.1_under_SIMH):
> > >
> > > set cpu tops-20
> > > d wru 006
> > > att tu  bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap
> > > set rp rp06
> > > att rp t20.dsk
> > > boot tu
> > >
> > > at which point I'm greeted with the expected MTBOOT> prompt.  I then
> > > do:
> > >
> > >
> > > MTBOOT> /L
> > > MTBOOT> /G143
> > >
> > > and basically say Y to all the questions:
> > > [FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TYPE "?" TO ANY OF THE FOLLOWING
> > > QUESTIONS.]
> > >
> > > DO YOU WANT TO REPLACE THE FILE SYSTEM ON THE PUBLIC STRUCTURE? Y
> > >
> > > DO YOU WANT TO DEFINE THE PUBLIC STRUCTURE? Y
> > >
> > > HOW MANY PACKS ARE IN THIS STRUCTURE: 1
> > >
> > > ON WHICH "CHANNEL,UNIT" IS LOGICAL PACK # 0 MOUNTED: 0,0
> > >
> > > DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SWAPPING SPACE? Y
> > >
> > > DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SIZE FRONT END FILE SYSTEM? Y
> > >
> > > DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SIZE BOOTSTRAP AREA? Y
> > >
> > > [STRUCTURE "PS" SUCCESSFULLY DEFINED]
> > >
> > > [PS MOUNTED]
> > > ?PS UNIT 0 HAS NO BAT BLOCKS.
> > > DO YOU WANT TO WRITE A SET OF PROTOTYPE BAT BLOCKS? Y
> > >
> > > %%NO SETSPD
> > >
> > > System restarting, wait...
> > >
> > >
> > > At this point, the simulator just sits there for hours, never giving
> > > the date/time question the installation guide says I should get
> > > next.  It does seem that the install process has at least initialized
> > > the disk image, and if I reboot and tell it to skip all of those
> > > filesystem initialization steps, it blasts right to the %%NO SETSPD
> > > and "System restarting" steps, whereupon it hangs again.
> > >
> > > I'm running simh off of today's current git master branch.  I have
> > > compiled it both on FreeBSD and on Ubuntu 16.04 with identical
> > > results (so I am not assuming it's just a FreeBSD incompatibility
> > > issue).
> > >
> > >
> > > I see plenty of old references to running TOPS-20 4.1 on SIMH, and no
> > > such references to this apparent hanging of the simulator at a very
> > > early stage in installation.  Has anybody got this running?  Am I
> > > missing something blindingly obvious somewhere?
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> ==========================================================================
> > Richard Cornwell
> > rich at sky-visions.com
> > http://sky-visions.com
> > LinkedIn:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-cornwell-991076107
> >
> ==========================================================================
>
> --
> Tom Russo    KM5VY
> Tijeras, NM
>
>  echo "prpv_a'rfg_cnf_har_cvcr" | sed -e 's/_/ /g' | tr [a-m][n-z]
> [n-z][a-m]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Simh Digest, Vol 192, Issue 17
> *************************************
>
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