<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Richard - Let me know when you have the KL simulator running. I did get Tops-10 running on simh on my mac. I am eager to run TOPS-20 again.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 6:01 PM <<a href="mailto:simh-request@trailing-edge.com">simh-request@trailing-edge.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send Simh mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Tops-20 4.1 on simh PDP-10: trouble during install (Tom Russo)<br>
2. load (Kevin Handy)<br>
3. Re: Tops-20 4.1 on simh PDP-10: trouble during install<br>
(Richard Cornwell)<br>
4. Re: load (Paul Koning)<br>
5. Re: Tops-20 4.1 on simh PDP-10: trouble during install<br>
(Tom Russo)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 16:03:03 -0700<br>
From: Tom Russo <<a href="mailto:russo@bogodyn.org" target="_blank">russo@bogodyn.org</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com" target="_blank">simh@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
Subject: [Simh] Tops-20 4.1 on simh PDP-10: trouble during install<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:20200124230303.GA49712@bogodyn.org" target="_blank">20200124230303.GA49712@bogodyn.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
I'm a new simh user, and have mostly been using it to relive my youth<br>
on PDP-11s. But I also had played with TOPS-20 back in those misspent<br>
days, and wanted to see if I could have my own, fully realizing that<br>
SIMH can't run later versions of TOPS-20 because it simulates a KS10. <br>
Still, I am having trouble getting past the first few steps of the install.<br>
<br>
I am starting from the install document at <br>
<a href="http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/pdp10/TOPS20/V4.1_Feb83/AA-P346A-TM_KS_Install_4.1_Feb83.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/pdp10/TOPS20/V4.1_Feb83/AA-P346A-TM_KS_Install_4.1_Feb83.pdf</a><br>
<br>
I have downloaded the install tape from <br>
<a href="http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tapes/bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap.bz2" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tapes/bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap.bz2</a><br>
<br>
I use this "install.ini" file (cribbed from <a href="https://gunkies.org/wiki/Running_TOPS-20_V4.1_under_SIMH" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://gunkies.org/wiki/Running_TOPS-20_V4.1_under_SIMH</a>):<br>
<br>
set cpu tops-20<br>
d wru 006 <br>
att tu bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap<br>
set rp rp06<br>
att rp t20.dsk<br>
boot tu<br>
<br>
at which point I'm greeted with the expected MTBOOT> prompt. I then do:<br>
<br>
<br>
MTBOOT> /L<br>
MTBOOT> /G143<br>
<br>
and basically say Y to all the questions:<br>
[FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TYPE "?" TO ANY OF THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS.]<br>
<br>
DO YOU WANT TO REPLACE THE FILE SYSTEM ON THE PUBLIC STRUCTURE? Y<br>
<br>
DO YOU WANT TO DEFINE THE PUBLIC STRUCTURE? Y<br>
<br>
HOW MANY PACKS ARE IN THIS STRUCTURE: 1<br>
<br>
ON WHICH "CHANNEL,UNIT" IS LOGICAL PACK # 0 MOUNTED: 0,0<br>
<br>
DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SWAPPING SPACE? Y<br>
<br>
DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SIZE FRONT END FILE SYSTEM? Y<br>
<br>
DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SIZE BOOTSTRAP AREA? Y<br>
<br>
[STRUCTURE "PS" SUCCESSFULLY DEFINED]<br>
<br>
[PS MOUNTED]<br>
?PS UNIT 0 HAS NO BAT BLOCKS.<br>
DO YOU WANT TO WRITE A SET OF PROTOTYPE BAT BLOCKS? Y<br>
<br>
%%NO SETSPD<br>
<br>
System restarting, wait...<br>
<br>
<br>
At this point, the simulator just sits there for hours, never giving the <br>
date/time question the installation guide says I should get next. It does<br>
seem that the install process has at least initialized the disk image, and if<br>
I reboot and tell it to skip all of those filesystem initialization steps,<br>
it blasts right to the %%NO SETSPD and "System restarting" steps, whereupon<br>
it hangs again.<br>
<br>
I'm running simh off of today's current git master branch. I have compiled<br>
it both on FreeBSD and on Ubuntu 16.04 with identical results (so I am not<br>
assuming it's just a FreeBSD incompatibility issue).<br>
<br>
<br>
I see plenty of old references to running TOPS-20 4.1 on SIMH, and no <br>
such references to this apparent hanging of the simulator at a very <br>
early stage in installation. Has anybody got this running? Am I missing<br>
something blindingly obvious somewhere?<br>
-- <br>
Tom Russo KM5VY<br>
Tijeras, NM <br>
<br>
echo "prpv_a'rfg_cnf_har_cvcr" | sed -e 's/_/ /g' | tr [a-m][n-z] [n-z][a-m]<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 16:26:46 -0700<br>
From: Kevin Handy <<a href="mailto:khandy21yo@gmail.com" target="_blank">khandy21yo@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Simh <<a href="mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com" target="_blank">simh@trailing-edge.com</a>><br>
Subject: [Simh] load<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CANk4W2MXtUen9GtS7ck4UW_tqS0KN25ANMS=<a href="mailto:8tqy9H_wOZsg7Q@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">8tqy9H_wOZsg7Q@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I was watching some youtube videos about the PiDP-11, and they all seemed<br>
to end up typing in a hand-assembled program into the emulator.<br>
<br>
It got me to thinking about the macro11 assembler in simtools, however<br>
that program only appears to output object files, not binary ones. simh<br>
appears to only accept binary filesm not object files.<br>
<br>
Is there some way to bridge the gap? Is there some method to bridge he gap?<br>
marco11 to output binary files, a linker to convert object files to binary<br>
ones, or simh to accept object files.<br>
<br>
For the PiDP-11 users, they could prooblbly work from a listing where a<br>
hard-coded base address is given, but others might want to try something<br>
that is too long to want to key it in.<br>
<br>
If this is already possible, some documentation on the process would be<br>
useful. This would also make simtools more useful.<br>
<br>
This applies to all the other emulations that have assemblers available<br>
also.<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 20:17:09 -0500<br>
From: Richard Cornwell <<a href="mailto:rich@sky-visions.com" target="_blank">rich@sky-visions.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com" target="_blank">simh@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Simh] Tops-20 4.1 on simh PDP-10: trouble during<br>
install<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:20200124201709.4de093e3.rich@sky-visions.com" target="_blank">20200124201709.4de093e3.rich@sky-visions.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
<br>
Hi Tom,<br>
<br>
While I have not tried Tops-20 on the KS10, I do have versions 2<br>
through 7 running on my unreleased KL10 simulator. I am still<br>
resolving issues, I should be releasing it in a month or two.<br>
<br>
I think you need to hit ^C after the NO SYSJOB. <br>
<br>
Rich<br>
<br>
> I'm a new simh user, and have mostly been using it to relive my youth<br>
> on PDP-11s. But I also had played with TOPS-20 back in those misspent<br>
> days, and wanted to see if I could have my own, fully realizing that<br>
> SIMH can't run later versions of TOPS-20 because it simulates a<br>
> KS10. Still, I am having trouble getting past the first few steps of<br>
> the install.<br>
> <br>
> I am starting from the install document at <br>
> <a href="http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/pdp10/TOPS20/V4.1_Feb83/AA-P346A-TM_KS_Install_4.1_Feb83.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/pdp10/TOPS20/V4.1_Feb83/AA-P346A-TM_KS_Install_4.1_Feb83.pdf</a><br>
> <br>
> I have downloaded the install tape from <br>
> <a href="http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tapes/bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap.bz2" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tapes/bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap.bz2</a><br>
> <br>
> I use this "install.ini" file (cribbed from<br>
> <a href="https://gunkies.org/wiki/Running_TOPS-20_V4.1_under_SIMH" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://gunkies.org/wiki/Running_TOPS-20_V4.1_under_SIMH</a>):<br>
> <br>
> set cpu tops-20<br>
> d wru 006 <br>
> att tu bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap<br>
> set rp rp06<br>
> att rp t20.dsk<br>
> boot tu<br>
> <br>
> at which point I'm greeted with the expected MTBOOT> prompt. I then<br>
> do:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> MTBOOT> /L<br>
> MTBOOT> /G143 <br>
> <br>
> and basically say Y to all the questions:<br>
> [FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TYPE "?" TO ANY OF THE FOLLOWING<br>
> QUESTIONS.]<br>
> <br>
> DO YOU WANT TO REPLACE THE FILE SYSTEM ON THE PUBLIC STRUCTURE? Y<br>
> <br>
> DO YOU WANT TO DEFINE THE PUBLIC STRUCTURE? Y<br>
> <br>
> HOW MANY PACKS ARE IN THIS STRUCTURE: 1<br>
> <br>
> ON WHICH "CHANNEL,UNIT" IS LOGICAL PACK # 0 MOUNTED: 0,0<br>
> <br>
> DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SWAPPING SPACE? Y<br>
> <br>
> DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SIZE FRONT END FILE SYSTEM? Y<br>
> <br>
> DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SIZE BOOTSTRAP AREA? Y<br>
> <br>
> [STRUCTURE "PS" SUCCESSFULLY DEFINED]<br>
> <br>
> [PS MOUNTED]<br>
> ?PS UNIT 0 HAS NO BAT BLOCKS.<br>
> DO YOU WANT TO WRITE A SET OF PROTOTYPE BAT BLOCKS? Y<br>
> <br>
> %%NO SETSPD<br>
> <br>
> System restarting, wait...<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> At this point, the simulator just sits there for hours, never giving<br>
> the date/time question the installation guide says I should get<br>
> next. It does seem that the install process has at least initialized<br>
> the disk image, and if I reboot and tell it to skip all of those<br>
> filesystem initialization steps, it blasts right to the %%NO SETSPD<br>
> and "System restarting" steps, whereupon it hangs again.<br>
> <br>
> I'm running simh off of today's current git master branch. I have<br>
> compiled it both on FreeBSD and on Ubuntu 16.04 with identical<br>
> results (so I am not assuming it's just a FreeBSD incompatibility<br>
> issue).<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I see plenty of old references to running TOPS-20 4.1 on SIMH, and no <br>
> such references to this apparent hanging of the simulator at a very <br>
> early stage in installation. Has anybody got this running? Am I<br>
> missing something blindingly obvious somewhere?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
==========================================================================<br>
Richard Cornwell<br>
<a href="mailto:rich@sky-visions.com" target="_blank">rich@sky-visions.com</a><br>
<a href="http://sky-visions.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://sky-visions.com</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-cornwell-991076107" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-cornwell-991076107</a><br>
==========================================================================<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 20:19:37 -0500<br>
From: Paul Koning <<a href="mailto:paulkoning@comcast.net" target="_blank">paulkoning@comcast.net</a>><br>
To: Kevin Handy <<a href="mailto:khandy21yo@gmail.com" target="_blank">khandy21yo@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: Simh <<a href="mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com" target="_blank">simh@trailing-edge.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Simh] load<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:324A5BE9-4A6C-4704-AC86-F4272AE4E4AF@comcast.net" target="_blank">324A5BE9-4A6C-4704-AC86-F4272AE4E4AF@comcast.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Jan 24, 2020, at 6:26 PM, Kevin Handy <<a href="mailto:khandy21yo@gmail.com" target="_blank">khandy21yo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> I was watching some youtube videos about the PiDP-11, and they all seemed to end up typing in a hand-assembled program into the emulator.<br>
> <br>
> It got me to thinking about the macro11 assembler in simtools, however that program only appears to output object files, not binary ones. simh appears to only accept binary filesm not object files.<br>
> <br>
> Is there some way to bridge the gap? Is there some method to bridge he gap? marco11 to output binary files, a linker to convert object files to binary ones, or simh to accept object files.<br>
> <br>
> For the PiDP-11 users, they could prooblbly work from a listing where a hard-coded base address is given, but others might want to try something that is too long to want to key it in.<br>
> <br>
> If this is already possible, some documentation on the process would be useful. This would also make simtools more useful.<br>
> <br>
> This applies to all the other emulations that have assemblers available also.<br>
<br>
This probably isn't quite what you're looking for, but if not it could be tweaked.<br>
<br>
For running parts of the GCC test suite for the PDP11 target, I wanted to be able to run its output on SIMH. Here is a simple Python program that turns Unix style a.out files (the archaic PDP11 flavor rather than the later flavor used in some other platforms) into DEC standard paper tape binary loader files that SIMH will accept.<br>
<br>
paul<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 18:20:59 -0700<br>
From: Tom Russo <<a href="mailto:russo@bogodyn.org" target="_blank">russo@bogodyn.org</a>><br>
To: Richard Cornwell <<a href="mailto:rich@sky-visions.com" target="_blank">rich@sky-visions.com</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com" target="_blank">simh@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Simh] Tops-20 4.1 on simh PDP-10: trouble during<br>
install<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:20200125012059.GA55365@bogodyn.org" target="_blank">20200125012059.GA55365@bogodyn.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 08:17:09PM -0500, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <<a href="mailto:rich@sky-visions.com" target="_blank">rich@sky-visions.com</a>> flavor, containing:<br>
> Hi Tom,<br>
> <br>
> While I have not tried Tops-20 on the KS10, I do have versions 2<br>
> through 7 running on my unreleased KL10 simulator. I am still<br>
> resolving issues, I should be releasing it in a month or two.<br>
<br>
That should be pretty cool. I look forward to it.<br>
<br>
> I think you need to hit ^C after the NO SYSJOB. <br>
<br>
I never get to a NO SYSJOB anywhere. It hangs right at <br>
"System restarting, wait..."<br>
<br>
^C does nothing at that stage.<br>
<br>
<br>
> Rich<br>
> <br>
> > I'm a new simh user, and have mostly been using it to relive my youth<br>
> > on PDP-11s. But I also had played with TOPS-20 back in those misspent<br>
> > days, and wanted to see if I could have my own, fully realizing that<br>
> > SIMH can't run later versions of TOPS-20 because it simulates a<br>
> > KS10. Still, I am having trouble getting past the first few steps of<br>
> > the install.<br>
> > <br>
> > I am starting from the install document at <br>
> > <a href="http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/pdp10/TOPS20/V4.1_Feb83/AA-P346A-TM_KS_Install_4.1_Feb83.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/pdp10/TOPS20/V4.1_Feb83/AA-P346A-TM_KS_Install_4.1_Feb83.pdf</a><br>
> > <br>
> > I have downloaded the install tape from <br>
> > <a href="http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tapes/bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap.bz2" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tapes/bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap.bz2</a><br>
> > <br>
> > I use this "install.ini" file (cribbed from<br>
> > <a href="https://gunkies.org/wiki/Running_TOPS-20_V4.1_under_SIMH" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://gunkies.org/wiki/Running_TOPS-20_V4.1_under_SIMH</a>):<br>
> > <br>
> > set cpu tops-20<br>
> > d wru 006 <br>
> > att tu bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap<br>
> > set rp rp06<br>
> > att rp t20.dsk<br>
> > boot tu<br>
> > <br>
> > at which point I'm greeted with the expected MTBOOT> prompt. I then<br>
> > do:<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > MTBOOT> /L<br>
> > MTBOOT> /G143 <br>
> > <br>
> > and basically say Y to all the questions:<br>
> > [FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TYPE "?" TO ANY OF THE FOLLOWING<br>
> > QUESTIONS.]<br>
> > <br>
> > DO YOU WANT TO REPLACE THE FILE SYSTEM ON THE PUBLIC STRUCTURE? Y<br>
> > <br>
> > DO YOU WANT TO DEFINE THE PUBLIC STRUCTURE? Y<br>
> > <br>
> > HOW MANY PACKS ARE IN THIS STRUCTURE: 1<br>
> > <br>
> > ON WHICH "CHANNEL,UNIT" IS LOGICAL PACK # 0 MOUNTED: 0,0<br>
> > <br>
> > DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SWAPPING SPACE? Y<br>
> > <br>
> > DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SIZE FRONT END FILE SYSTEM? Y<br>
> > <br>
> > DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SIZE BOOTSTRAP AREA? Y<br>
> > <br>
> > [STRUCTURE "PS" SUCCESSFULLY DEFINED]<br>
> > <br>
> > [PS MOUNTED]<br>
> > ?PS UNIT 0 HAS NO BAT BLOCKS.<br>
> > DO YOU WANT TO WRITE A SET OF PROTOTYPE BAT BLOCKS? Y<br>
> > <br>
> > %%NO SETSPD<br>
> > <br>
> > System restarting, wait...<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > At this point, the simulator just sits there for hours, never giving<br>
> > the date/time question the installation guide says I should get<br>
> > next. It does seem that the install process has at least initialized<br>
> > the disk image, and if I reboot and tell it to skip all of those<br>
> > filesystem initialization steps, it blasts right to the %%NO SETSPD<br>
> > and "System restarting" steps, whereupon it hangs again.<br>
> > <br>
> > I'm running simh off of today's current git master branch. I have<br>
> > compiled it both on FreeBSD and on Ubuntu 16.04 with identical<br>
> > results (so I am not assuming it's just a FreeBSD incompatibility<br>
> > issue).<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > I see plenty of old references to running TOPS-20 4.1 on SIMH, and no <br>
> > such references to this apparent hanging of the simulator at a very <br>
> > early stage in installation. Has anybody got this running? Am I<br>
> > missing something blindingly obvious somewhere?<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> ==========================================================================<br>
> Richard Cornwell<br>
> <a href="mailto:rich@sky-visions.com" target="_blank">rich@sky-visions.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://sky-visions.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://sky-visions.com</a><br>
> LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-cornwell-991076107" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-cornwell-991076107</a><br>
> ==========================================================================<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Tom Russo KM5VY<br>
Tijeras, NM <br>
<br>
echo "prpv_a'rfg_cnf_har_cvcr" | sed -e 's/_/ /g' | tr [a-m][n-z] [n-z][a-m]<br>
<br>
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End of Simh Digest, Vol 192, Issue 17<br>
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