[Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 166, Issue 12
Peter Allan
petermallan at gmail.com
Sun Nov 5 14:19:04 EST 2017
Quite right Johnny. I obviously was not clear about the problem.
Essentially, when trying to read a tape file using a simulated TE16 tape
drive (on a simulated VAX 780 running VMS 3.0), I get CRC errors, yet when
I try to read the same tape file with a simulated TS11 tape drive, it works
perfectly. My question is - is there any explanation for this different
behaviour?
Peter Allan
On 5 November 2017 at 17:00, <simh-request at trailing-edge.com> wrote:
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> 1. Re: VMS 1.5 installable? (Johnny Billquist)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2017 12:55:16 +0100
> From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
> To: simh at trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] VMS 1.5 installable?
> Message-ID: <6a250afb-9965-c07a-284b-3d25d8bfb76f at softjar.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Well, obviously there are differences. The TE16 is a Massbus tape drive.
> The TS11 is a Unibus thing. Totally different. Both in how they connect,
> how the programming model is, the exact layout of registers, and of
> course then, through which bus interface you program them.
>
> In essence, they have nothing in common, apart from that they both use
> the same physical tape medium in real life.
>
> Johnny
>
> On 2017-11-05 11:39, Peter Allan wrote:
> > Thanks to Wilm, I now have VMS 1.5 up and running. This is new territory
> > for me since my first exposure to VAXen was in late 1982 when the
> > version was something like 3.0, or just possibly the last version of
> > 2.x. (I didn't pay attention to such things back then. If I could write
> > Fortran programs, I was happy.)
> >
> > However, the fact that I could complete the installation of VMS 3.0 by
> > using a simulated TS11 tape drive when it failed with a TE16 drive has
> > got me wondering if there is a bug in simh. Surely on a real system you
> > could use a real TS11 or TE16 drive? Obviously there is no density on a
> > simulated tape file, but is there any other difference between the two
> > simulated tape drives that explains what is going on?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Peter Allan
> >
> >
> > On 25 October 2017 at 14:08, Peter Allan <petermallan at gmail.com
> > <mailto:petermallan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Wilm, I will try that out. I doubt I would have thought of
> > using a TS11 rather than a TE16 without your advice.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > On 25 October 2017 at 12:39, Wilm Boerhout <wboerhout at gmail.com
> > <mailto:wboerhout at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Your approach is correct, I have regularly used it over the past
> > weeks to bring up VMS 1.0.
> >
> > I also saw these CRC errors on restore sometimes. There are two
> > ways around this:
> >
> > 1. Mount the 3.0 tape on a generic (newer) VAX/VMS system, use
> > $MOUNT/OVER=ID and copy the LIBRARY and OPTIONAL savesets to
> a
> > (RP06-sized) disk in the [0,0] directory. In a later step, $
> > mount
> > /foreign this disk, and point the installer to this disk as
> > the source.
> > 2. On your 3.0 system just booted with just the REQUIRED
> > saveset, use a
> > TS11 and not a TE16 tape unit in the simh config. Somehow
> this
> > worked. Also, when you use a TE16, use an explicit $MOU/FOR
> > /DEN=800. I forget in which version, but this also worked
> > sometimes.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > /Wilm
> >
> >
> > Peter Allan schreef op 25-10-2017 om 13:30:
> >
> > Encouraged by all of the posting about running VMS 1.5 on an
> > emulated VAX 780 with simh, I have tried to do the same.
> > However, I am having a problem.
> >
> > I don't have an existing VMS 3.x system running (4.6 is my
> > earliest), so I tried to do a VMS 3.0 installation using the
> > tape from uni-stuttgart which I had downloaded some time ago.
> >
> > I booted a VMS 4.6 system on an emulated 780 and did an
> > image restore using BACKUP of the REQUIRED saveset on the
> > VMS 3.0 installation tape to an RP06. So far, so good. Then
> > I booted the newly created RP06 disk, which continued the
> > installation process by attempting to restore the LIBRARY
> > saveset on the VMS 3.0 tape. However, this crashed with too
> > many CRC errors.
> >
> > This is where I am stuck. I could download the tape from
> > uni-stuttgart again, but is there any reason to expect a
> > better result by doing this? Can someone who has got this to
> > work advise me what to try next please. I have downloaded
> > the files that Christian posted, but while that has
> > standalone backup on a disk image, I need DSC to read the
> > VMS 1.5 tape (don't I?) which is the only reason that I was
> > trying to get VMS 3.0 working in the first place.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Peter Allan
> >
> > On 20 October 2017 at 09:43, Wilm Boerhout
> > <wboerhout at gmail.com <mailto:wboerhout at gmail.com>
> > <mailto:wboerhout at gmail.com <mailto:wboerhout at gmail.com>>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Matt Burke schreef op 17-10-2017 om 23:17:
> >
> > You may also want to try VAX/VMS 1.0 (or as close
> > as you can
> > get to it):
> >
> >
> > http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip
> > <http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip>
> > <http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip
> > <http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip>>
> >
> > This is not taken from an original tape. It's
> > something I
> > reconstructed
> > from a disk containing early VAX/VMS source and
> > binaries. The
> > dates
> > indicate that this is earlier than VAX/VMS 1.5.
> > Hopefully someone can find an original at some
> point.
> >
> > Matt
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > Wonderful!
> >
> >
> > I now have VMS 1.0 up and running on simh VAX780. Does
> > anyone know
> > whereto find the Fortran installation tape for this
> system?
> >
> >
> > BTW, I also use a fine VT52 emulator I found on github.
> >
> >
> > /Wilm
> >
> >
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> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
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> End of Simh Digest, Vol 166, Issue 12
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