<div dir="ltr">Quite right Johnny. I obviously was not clear about the problem.<div><br></div><div>Essentially, when trying to read a tape file using a simulated TE16 tape drive (on a simulated VAX 780 running VMS 3.0), I get CRC errors, yet when I try to read the same tape file with a simulated TS11 tape drive, it works perfectly. My question is - is there any explanation for this different behaviour?</div><div><br></div><div>Peter Allan</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 5 November 2017 at 17:00, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:simh-request@trailing-edge.com" target="_blank">simh-request@trailing-edge.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Simh mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com">simh@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:simh-request@trailing-edge.com">simh-request@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:simh-owner@trailing-edge.com">simh-owner@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Simh digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: VMS 1.5 installable? (Johnny Billquist)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2017 12:55:16 +0100<br>
From: Johnny Billquist <<a href="mailto:bqt@softjar.se">bqt@softjar.se</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com">simh@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Simh] VMS 1.5 installable?<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:6a250afb-9965-c07a-284b-3d25d8bfb76f@softjar.se">6a250afb-9965-c07a-284b-<wbr>3d25d8bfb76f@softjar.se</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
Well, obviously there are differences. The TE16 is a Massbus tape drive.<br>
The TS11 is a Unibus thing. Totally different. Both in how they connect,<br>
how the programming model is, the exact layout of registers, and of<br>
course then, through which bus interface you program them.<br>
<br>
In essence, they have nothing in common, apart from that they both use<br>
the same physical tape medium in real life.<br>
<br>
Johnny<br>
<br>
On 2017-11-05 11:39, Peter Allan wrote:<br>
> Thanks to Wilm, I now have VMS 1.5 up and running. This is new territory<br>
> for me since my first exposure to VAXen was in late 1982 when the<br>
> version was something like 3.0, or just possibly the last version of<br>
> 2.x. (I didn't pay attention to such things back then. If I could write<br>
> Fortran programs, I was happy.)<br>
><br>
> However, the fact that I could complete the installation of VMS 3.0 by<br>
> using a simulated TS11 tape drive when it failed with a TE16 drive has<br>
> got me wondering if there is a bug in simh. Surely on a real system you<br>
> could use a real TS11 or TE16 drive? Obviously there is no density on a<br>
> simulated tape file, but is there any other difference between the two<br>
> simulated tape drives that explains what is going on?<br>
><br>
> Cheers<br>
><br>
> Peter Allan<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 25 October 2017 at 14:08, Peter Allan <<a href="mailto:petermallan@gmail.com">petermallan@gmail.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:petermallan@gmail.com">petermallan@gmail.com</a>><wbr>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Thanks Wilm, I will try that out. I doubt I would have thought of<br>
> using a TS11 rather than a TE16 without your advice.<br>
><br>
> Peter<br>
><br>
> On 25 October 2017 at 12:39, Wilm Boerhout <<a href="mailto:wboerhout@gmail.com">wboerhout@gmail.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:wboerhout@gmail.com">wboerhout@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Your approach is correct, I have regularly used it over the past<br>
> weeks to bring up VMS 1.0.<br>
><br>
> I also saw these CRC errors on restore sometimes. There are two<br>
> ways around this:<br>
><br>
> 1. Mount the 3.0 tape on a generic (newer) VAX/VMS system, use<br>
> $MOUNT/OVER=ID and copy the LIBRARY and OPTIONAL savesets to a<br>
> (RP06-sized) disk in the [0,0] directory. In a later step, $<br>
> mount<br>
> /foreign this disk, and point the installer to this disk as<br>
> the source.<br>
> 2. On your 3.0 system just booted with just the REQUIRED<br>
> saveset, use a<br>
> TS11 and not a TE16 tape unit in the simh config. Somehow this<br>
> worked. Also, when you use a TE16, use an explicit $MOU/FOR<br>
> /DEN=800. I forget in which version, but this also worked<br>
> sometimes.<br>
><br>
> HTH<br>
><br>
> /Wilm<br>
><br>
><br>
> Peter Allan schreef op 25-10-2017 om 13:30:<br>
><br>
> Encouraged by all of the posting about running VMS 1.5 on an<br>
> emulated VAX 780 with simh, I have tried to do the same.<br>
> However, I am having a problem.<br>
><br>
> I don't have an existing VMS 3.x system running (4.6 is my<br>
> earliest), so I tried to do a VMS 3.0 installation using the<br>
> tape from uni-stuttgart which I had downloaded some time ago.<br>
><br>
> I booted a VMS 4.6 system on an emulated 780 and did an<br>
> image restore using BACKUP of the REQUIRED saveset on the<br>
> VMS 3.0 installation tape to an RP06. So far, so good. Then<br>
> I booted the newly created RP06 disk, which continued the<br>
> installation process by attempting to restore the LIBRARY<br>
> saveset on the VMS 3.0 tape. However, this crashed with too<br>
> many CRC errors.<br>
><br>
> This is where I am stuck. I could download the tape from<br>
> uni-stuttgart again, but is there any reason to expect a<br>
> better result by doing this? Can someone who has got this to<br>
> work advise me what to try next please. I have downloaded<br>
> the files that Christian posted, but while that has<br>
> standalone backup on a disk image, I need DSC to read the<br>
> VMS 1.5 tape (don't I?) which is the only reason that I was<br>
> trying to get VMS 3.0 working in the first place.<br>
><br>
> Cheers<br>
><br>
> Peter Allan<br>
><br>
> On 20 October 2017 at 09:43, Wilm Boerhout<br>
> <<a href="mailto:wboerhout@gmail.com">wboerhout@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:wboerhout@gmail.com">wboerhout@gmail.com</a>><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:wboerhout@gmail.com">wboerhout@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:wboerhout@gmail.com">wboerhout@gmail.com</a>>>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Matt Burke schreef op 17-10-2017 om 23:17:<br>
><br>
> You may also want to try VAX/VMS 1.0 (or as close<br>
> as you can<br>
> get to it):<br>
><br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-<wbr>D782A-BE.zip</a><br>
> <<a href="http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-<wbr>D782A-BE.zip</a>><br>
> <<a href="http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-<wbr>D782A-BE.zip</a><br>
> <<a href="http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-<wbr>D782A-BE.zip</a>>><br>
><br>
> This is not taken from an original tape. It's<br>
> something I<br>
> reconstructed<br>
> from a disk containing early VAX/VMS source and<br>
> binaries. The<br>
> dates<br>
> indicate that this is earlier than VAX/VMS 1.5.<br>
> Hopefully someone can find an original at some point.<br>
><br>
> Matt<br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> Simh mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><wbr>><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><wbr>>><br>
> <a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
> <<a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a>><br>
><br>
> <<a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
> <<a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a>>><br>
><br>
><br>
> Wonderful!<br>
><br>
><br>
> I now have VMS 1.0 up and running on simh VAX780. Does<br>
> anyone know<br>
> whereto find the Fortran installation tape for this system?<br>
><br>
><br>
> BTW, I also use a fine VT52 emulator I found on github.<br>
><br>
><br>
> /Wilm<br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> Simh mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><wbr>><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><wbr>>><br>
> <a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
> <<a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a>><br>
> <<a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
> <<a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a>>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> Simh mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><wbr>><br>
> <a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
> <<a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> Simh mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><wbr>><br>
> <a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
> <<a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> Simh mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
><br>
<br>
--<br>
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus<br>
|| on a psychedelic trip<br>
email: <a href="mailto:bqt@softjar.se">bqt@softjar.se</a> || Reading murder books<br>
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Simh mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of Simh Digest, Vol 166, Issue 12<br>
******************************<wbr>*******<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>