[Simh] LAVC

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2017-03-11 22:36, Sergey Oboguev wrote:
> Just curious:
>
> Is HSC firmware and software available?

Firmware and software are the same thing here! :-)
And yes, the CRONIC OS is possible to get. I don't know if anyone 
already have made it available anywhere, but I know where I can get a 
copy for the HSC90 if nothing else.

> (Well, I know someone who has a live system running with HSCs
> http://fafner.dyndns.org <http://fafner.dyndns.org/>
> telnet fafner.dyndns.org
> so the software for at least *some* HSC models might be retrievable,
> less sure about the firmware.)

What firmware are you referring to?
As for running, Update have HSJs that we use if we just flip the power. 
We could also roll in the HSC90 if we wanted to.

> Does there exist a sufficiently detailed hardware spec on the HSC? if
> yes, which models?

I have not seen any detailed hardware specs for any CI controllers. 
Maybe someone else knows if any?

> In particular, a description of CI/SC interface from the HSC side?

Unless I remember wrong, it's the same cards as in the CI780.

> After all, the source code for VMS and BSD is available, so one might
> hypothetically infer what they expect from CI by reverse-engineering the
> source code.

I didn't know VMS sources were available. Where do you find them?
As for BSD, the only "BSD" which supports CI is Ultrix.
BSD4.x, NetBSD and OpenBSD do not support CI at all. For the very simple 
reason that DEC never released the documentation.

> But what about the J-11 side?

That would be the CRONIC OS. We have binaries... But I'm not so sure 
about any documentation of the rest of the content in a HSC...

	Johnny

>
> Thanks,
> Sergey
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
> *To:* Mark Pizzolato <Mark at infocomm.com>; "simh at trailing-edge.com"
> <simh at trailing-edge.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 11, 2017 1:15 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Simh] LAVC
>
> On 2017-03-11 19:41, Mark Pizzolato wrote:
>> On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 10:06 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>>> On 2017-03-11 17:18, Mark Pizzolato wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 5:49 AM, Tim Stark wrote:
>>>>> Thanks for many replies. I learned a lot about VAX clustering. I will
>>>>> use multicast Ethernet for clustering.  I have more one question. Is
>>>>> that possible to emulate HSC controllers with LAVC access?
>>>>
>>>> When Matt Burke and I were discussing the CI concept, we picked IP
>>>> Multicast as transport for the very specific reason that all modern
>>>> host systems will have natural user mode programming access to
>>>> implement this functionality.  Attempting to create your own Ethernet
>>>> multicast protocol (non-IP based) will have portability complexities
>>>> on different platforms due to the fact different platforms have
>>>> varying support (and potentially require privilege) to present and/or
>>>> receive raw Ethernet frames to/from a LAN.
>>>
>>> I don't know for sure, but I assume that Tim just meant that he will
> let LAVC
>>> do as LAVC does, without him doing anything.
>>> And LAVC itself might be using ethernet multicasting.
>>> This is no more an issue than DECnet communication, which also requires
>>> access to the raw ethernet.
>>
>> True.  It could use the existing raw Ethernet access methods, but that
> approach
>> would have the following issues:
>>     1) Some platforms require significant privilege (root) to do this.
>
> Same as DECnet.
>
>>     2) He would have to re-invent much of what LAVC does.
>
> I thought he was talking just about LAVC, not inventing something new.
>
>>     3) The same problems that exist today on *nix hosts to provide a
>> mechanism for multiple simulators running on the same host to be able to
>> concurrently communicate with each other will exist.
>>
>> An IP multicast based solution lets the host OS solve much of this.
>
> Either you or me is missing something. I thought he was just talking
> about using LAVC (and thus raw ethernet) for clustering. Meaning he'll
> just fire up is simh instance, and start running. And that's the end of it.
>
> Seems like you are thinking he is going to implement something. Not sure
> exactly what. Emulate CI? Possible, but will require a lot more work
> than just transporting the bytes over the network. But, that said, it
> probably makes sense to use IP instead of raw ethernet if you are going
> to implement this. And my reasoning for that don't have as much to do
> with any network access (which you still will want to have for DECnet
> anyhow), but because CI frames are something like 8K in size. So you're
> going to have to implement some kind of complex layer on top of ethernet
> if you do that. And then you are going to get close to what IP/UDP will
> do for you anyhow, so why reinvent the wheel?
>
>     Johnny
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
>                                   ||  on a psychedelic trip
> email: bqt at softjar.se <mailto:bqt at softjar.se>            ||  Reading
> murder books
> pdp is alive!                    ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
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>


-- 
Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                   ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se             ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol