[Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 159, Issue 26
Kurt Hamm
kurt at hamm.me
Tue Dec 12 08:52:39 EST 2017
I am having a devil of a time hooking a physical VT220 into my Raspberry PI
Simh VAX. Everything is setup and working beautifully. I can telnet from
another computer with no trouble and get a vax login.
I have a ttyusb0 connection. I can echo text to the terminal with no
problem.
I can configure Raspian to divert the console to the terminal with no
problem. But, I can't telnet to the vax from the Raspberry PI operating
system. I can telnet from another PC, but not from within the Raspberry
Pi. So, that doesn't give me the Vax login on the terminal.
So, I tried to create a serial connection to the ttyUSB0 using various
means.
Method 1) attach ttix line=0,connect=/dev/ttyUSB0;1200-7n1 - This results
in an error that says non-existent device.
Method 2) attach dz line=0,connect=/dev/ttyUSB0;9600-8n1 - This seemed to
run successfully, but showed nothing on the terminal after a reboot.
Is there a way to connect a physical serial terminal via /dev/ttyUSB0 using
SIMh Microvax 3900 simulator?
Thanks for any advice.
Kurt
On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 3:05 AM, <simh-request at trailing-edge.com> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: NetBSD 5.1 on MicoVAX 3900 boot error (Bob Supnik)
> 2. Re: DEC VT emulators on MAME (Johnny Billquist)
> 3. Re: NetBSD 5.1 on MicoVAX 3900 boot error (Mark Abene)
> 4. Re: NetBSD 5.1 on MicoVAX 3900 boot error (Mark Pizzolato)
> 5. Re: DEC VT emulators on MAME (Kevin Handy)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 16:08:34 -0400
> From: Bob Supnik <bob at supnik.org>
> To: simh at trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] NetBSD 5.1 on MicoVAX 3900 boot error
> Message-ID: <4ee0f9dc-071c-9ea9-fe74-48134c5e979b at supnik.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> You can get a pre-built Windows 32b 3.9 executable without Ethernet (and
> therefore, without needing WinPCap) here:
> http://simh.trailing-edge.com/sources/simhv39-0-exe.zip. It should run
> fine under W10. See if it will boot NetBSD 5.1.
>
> /Bob Supnik
>
> On 4/18/2017 3:53 PM, simh-request at trailing-edge.com wrote:
> > You shouldn't need WinPCAP merely to test if the CD image is bootable.
> > The point of the boot test exercise is to help determine if the problem
> is
> > in NetBSD or due to recent changes to simh. If changes to simh are at
> > fault, I'll track it down and fix the problem.
> >
> >> I specifically want to run a 5.x version of NetBSD. I'm pretty sure it
> did
> >> run on SIMH 3.8-1 on Windows 7 before the upgrade. I need to downgrade a
> >> laptop I have to Win7 in the future and may try that. Until then I'll
> play
> >> with OpenBSD which doesn't seem to have any problems with SIMH 4.0 beta.
> > The boot test I'm suggesting will be far less work than setting up
> another
> > system.
> >
> > Let me know.
> >
> > - Mark
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:39:08 +0200
> From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
> To: simh at trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] DEC VT emulators on MAME
> Message-ID: <2e3a017d-0166-df35-3b92-11ab3a6912f4 at softjar.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Ok, looked at the schematics now.
>
> On 2017-04-18 21:53, Timothe Litt wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Since they're windowless, they are not EPROM (remember what the E
> >> stands for), but plain ROMs.
> > Nope. I meant exactly what I wrote.
>
> [...]
>
> Good point about it being the same chip. I hadn't considered that
> possibility. I know that for some 27-series proms, there were certainly
> both mask programmable as well as EPROM versions, where the mask
> programmable was more persistent safe. EPROMs have a risk of loosing
> their content eventually, even if not exposed to UV light.
>
> > As for which signal you use for what - it doesn't matter. OE puts the
> > chip into a low power state just as effectively as CS - assuming that
> > the part isn't in programming or ID mode. Since the part is never
> > written (in the terminal), this effectively gives you 2 CS pins
> > (effectively ANDed), and thus decoding requires at most an inverter.
>
> Not entirely true.
> OE should timing wise be done after CS and addresses have been stable
> for a certain time. And power consumption of the chip is related to the
> control of CS, and is not related to OE.
>
> While power consumption might not be a problem, and the timing can be
> solve, it does mean that driving CS and OE cannot be done identically.
> If you use OE as a CS, you should make make sure the address is stable
> some time before you activate OE, and if you use CS, you need to still
> drive OE at a point later in time, and not just tie them together or
> something.
>
> > The 27C256 is a 32K x 8 part; it has no A15 (but the cartridge socket
> does.)
>
> Yes, that was obvious.
>
> > Keven pointed out that the odd chip is probably the character generator
> > ROM - thus the separate address and data bus - and it doesn't need a CS
> > or OE. It's always reading something.
> >
> > As I've written before, rather than guessing, a few minutes with an
> > ohmmeter can sort all this out.
> >
> > I'm leaving that - and further exploration - as an exercise to the
> reader.
>
> I seriously doubt it's a character generator ROM in the normal sense of
> the word. The VT340 do not generate character output in hardware.
> It's a graphic terminal, which stores the text in the the bitmap, as far
> as I remember (I seem to remember being able to go into graphics mode
> and affect text already written). Also, you have soft definable
> characters, so the CPU need to have access to the same memory the
> character generator would use anyway, and it has to contain some RAM,
> minimum. So it needs to be in the normal memory space of the CPU.
>
> But there is indeed two address and databuses, so I think it's fair to
> say the two select lines are only used for a subset of the PROMs.
>
> There might be data in one ROM that is copied into RAM at startup.
> Character definition tables, for example, I could imagine.
>
> Anyway, most things can be worked out my doing the measurements you
> suggest, yes.
>
> Johnny
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 15:07:06 -0700
> From: Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com>
> To: Bob Supnik <bob at supnik.org>
> Cc: simh at trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] NetBSD 5.1 on MicoVAX 3900 boot error
> Message-ID:
> <CAPCE1iYZrkE19nrcTB-K-ZArhYi0USyAZY0FRFBvCsQwMRw30g@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Should one want winpcap in Windows 10, all one needs is:
> http://www.win10pcap.org/
>
> -Mark
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Bob Supnik <bob at supnik.org> wrote:
>
> > You can get a pre-built Windows 32b 3.9 executable without Ethernet (and
> > therefore, without needing WinPCap) here: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/
> > sources/simhv39-0-exe.zip. It should run fine under W10. See if it will
> > boot NetBSD 5.1.
> >
> > /Bob Supnik
> >
> >
> > On 4/18/2017 3:53 PM, simh-request at trailing-edge.com wrote:
> >
> >> You shouldn't need WinPCAP merely to test if the CD image is bootable.
> >> The point of the boot test exercise is to help determine if the problem
> is
> >> in NetBSD or due to recent changes to simh. If changes to simh are at
> >> fault, I'll track it down and fix the problem.
> >>
> >> I specifically want to run a 5.x version of NetBSD. I'm pretty sure it
> did
> >>> run on SIMH 3.8-1 on Windows 7 before the upgrade. I need to downgrade
> a
> >>> laptop I have to Win7 in the future and may try that. Until then I'll
> >>> play
> >>> with OpenBSD which doesn't seem to have any problems with SIMH 4.0
> beta.
> >>>
> >> The boot test I'm suggesting will be far less work than setting up
> another
> >> system.
> >>
> >> Let me know.
> >>
> >> - Mark
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh at trailing-edge.com
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:39:48 -0700
> From: Mark Pizzolato <Mark at infocomm.com>
> To: Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com>, Bob Supnik <bob at supnik.org>
> Cc: "simh at trailing-edge.com" <simh at trailing-edge.com>
> Subject: Re: [Simh] NetBSD 5.1 on MicoVAX 3900 boot error
> Message-ID:
> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A82E8242E585 at REDROOF2.
> alohasunset.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Actually, the latest simh ‘supported’ WinPcap is npcap.
>
> Npcap is part of the nmap project and directly shares the latest libpcap
> code.
>
> Npcap has a BSD license like the original WinPcap did. Win10pcap is a GPL
> package and is untested and unsupported for use with simh Ethernet devices.
>
> Npcap is available from: https://github.com/nmap/npcap/releases
>
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Mark Abene
> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 3:07 PM
> To: Bob Supnik <bob at supnik.org>
> Cc: simh at trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] NetBSD 5.1 on MicoVAX 3900 boot error
>
> Should one want winpcap in Windows 10, all one needs is:
> http://www.win10pcap.org/
>
> -Mark
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Bob Supnik <bob at supnik.org<mailto:bob@
> supnik.org>> wrote:
> You can get a pre-built Windows 32b 3.9 executable without Ethernet (and
> therefore, without needing WinPCap) here: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/
> sources/simhv39-0-exe.zip. It should run fine under W10. See if it will
> boot NetBSD 5.1.
>
> /Bob Supnik
>
>
> On 4/18/2017 3:53 PM, simh-request at trailing-edge.com<mailto:
> simh-request at trailing-edge.com> wrote:
> You shouldn't need WinPCAP merely to test if the CD image is bootable.
> The point of the boot test exercise is to help determine if the problem is
> in NetBSD or due to recent changes to simh. If changes to simh are at
> fault, I'll track it down and fix the problem.
> I specifically want to run a 5.x version of NetBSD. I'm pretty sure it did
> run on SIMH 3.8-1 on Windows 7 before the upgrade. I need to downgrade a
> laptop I have to Win7 in the future and may try that. Until then I'll play
> with OpenBSD which doesn't seem to have any problems with SIMH 4.0 beta.
> The boot test I'm suggesting will be far less work than setting up another
> system.
>
> Let me know.
>
> - Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com<mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com>
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 01:05:20 -0600
> From: Kevin Handy <khandy21yo at gmail.com>
> To: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
> Cc: "simh at trailing-edge.com" <simh at trailing-edge.com>
> Subject: Re: [Simh] DEC VT emulators on MAME
> Message-ID:
> <CANk4W2OuRsR=uLH_856YSmrG4hJurJFUkn6tq_+
> HGWsAegh24Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Looking at the schematic of the terminal from
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/terminal/
> vt340/K-TC-VT340_Schematic_Feb87.pdf,
> it appears that there are two 8031 processors. One (E57) uses the 'P1 AA'
> bus and has the 51x8 nvrom, the other (E24) uses the 'P2 BA' bus.
>
> 64Kx8 ram seems to be shared between them.
>
> 1st guess, E57 does most of the heavy work (serial, uart, keyboard, etc),
> and the other E24 handles the display.
>
> Also, for chip select,there is a 'P1 AA15 H' and a'P1 AA15 L' on the
> connector which should help with the chip selection logic. (ie. the
> inverter is inside the terminal, not on the card).
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
>
> > Ok, looked at the schematics now.
> >
> > On 2017-04-18 21:53, Timothe Litt wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Since they're windowless, they are not EPROM (remember what the E
> >>> stands for), but plain ROMs.
> >>>
> >> Nope. I meant exactly what I wrote.
> >>
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Good point about it being the same chip. I hadn't considered that
> > possibility. I know that for some 27-series proms, there were certainly
> > both mask programmable as well as EPROM versions, where the mask
> > programmable was more persistent safe. EPROMs have a risk of loosing
> their
> > content eventually, even if not exposed to UV light.
> >
> > As for which signal you use for what - it doesn't matter. OE puts the
> >> chip into a low power state just as effectively as CS - assuming that
> >> the part isn't in programming or ID mode. Since the part is never
> >> written (in the terminal), this effectively gives you 2 CS pins
> >> (effectively ANDed), and thus decoding requires at most an inverter.
> >>
> >
> > Not entirely true.
> > OE should timing wise be done after CS and addresses have been stable for
> > a certain time. And power consumption of the chip is related to the
> control
> > of CS, and is not related to OE.
> >
> > While power consumption might not be a problem, and the timing can be
> > solve, it does mean that driving CS and OE cannot be done identically. If
> > you use OE as a CS, you should make make sure the address is stable some
> > time before you activate OE, and if you use CS, you need to still drive
> OE
> > at a point later in time, and not just tie them together or something.
> >
> > The 27C256 is a 32K x 8 part; it has no A15 (but the cartridge socket
> >> does.)
> >>
> >
> > Yes, that was obvious.
> >
> > Keven pointed out that the odd chip is probably the character generator
> >> ROM - thus the separate address and data bus - and it doesn't need a CS
> >> or OE. It's always reading something.
> >>
> >> As I've written before, rather than guessing, a few minutes with an
> >> ohmmeter can sort all this out.
> >>
> >> I'm leaving that - and further exploration - as an exercise to the
> reader.
> >>
> >
> > I seriously doubt it's a character generator ROM in the normal sense of
> > the word. The VT340 do not generate character output in hardware.
> > It's a graphic terminal, which stores the text in the the bitmap, as far
> > as I remember (I seem to remember being able to go into graphics mode and
> > affect text already written). Also, you have soft definable characters,
> so
> > the CPU need to have access to the same memory the character generator
> > would use anyway, and it has to contain some RAM, minimum. So it needs to
> > be in the normal memory space of the CPU.
> >
> > But there is indeed two address and databuses, so I think it's fair to
> say
> > the two select lines are only used for a subset of the PROMs.
> >
> > There might be data in one ROM that is copied into RAM at startup.
> > Character definition tables, for example, I could imagine.
> >
> > Anyway, most things can be worked out my doing the measurements you
> > suggest, yes.
> >
> >
> > Johnny
> >
> > --
> > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > || on a psychedelic trip
> > email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> > _______________________________________________
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh at trailing-edge.com
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >
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>
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>
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> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Simh Digest, Vol 159, Issue 26
> *************************************
>
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