[Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 159, Issue 26
Johnny Billquist
bqt at softjar.se
Tue Dec 12 15:42:12 EST 2017
On 2017-12-12 14:52, Kurt Hamm wrote:
> I am having a devil of a time hooking a physical VT220 into my Raspberry
> PI Simh VAX. Everything is setup and working beautifully. I can telnet
> from another computer with no trouble and get a vax login.
>
> I have a ttyusb0 connection. I can echo text to the terminal with no
> problem.
>
> I can configure Raspian to divert the console to the terminal with no
> problem. But, I can't telnet to the vax from the Raspberry PI operating
> system. I can telnet from another PC, but not from within the Raspberry
> Pi. So, that doesn't give me the Vax login on the terminal.
The reason for this is normally that you are sharing the network
interface between the Linux box and your simh instance. So both speak on
the same network interface. However, you do not hear what you send out,
which means that you cannot communicate with anything else that is using
the same interface. Essentially, the network interface does not loop
back packets sent out.
> So, I tried to create a serial connection to the ttyUSB0 using various
> means.
> Method 1) attach ttix line=0,connect=/dev/ttyUSB0;1200-7n1 - This
> results in an error that says non-existent device.
> Method 2) attach dz line=0,connect=/dev/ttyUSB0;9600-8n1 - This seemed
> to run successfully, but showed nothing on the terminal after a reboot.
Have you configured VMS to have the DZ serial ports as well?
> Is there a way to connect a physical serial terminal via /dev/ttyUSB0
> using SIMh Microvax 3900 simulator?
Should be, I assume.
Johnny
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> Kurt
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 3:05 AM, <simh-request at trailing-edge.com
> <mailto:simh-request at trailing-edge.com>> wrote:
>
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: NetBSD 5.1 on MicoVAX 3900 boot error (Bob Supnik)
> 2. Re: DEC VT emulators on MAME (Johnny Billquist)
> 3. Re: NetBSD 5.1 on MicoVAX 3900 boot error (Mark Abene)
> 4. Re: NetBSD 5.1 on MicoVAX 3900 boot error (Mark Pizzolato)
> 5. Re: DEC VT emulators on MAME (Kevin Handy)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 16:08:34 -0400
> From: Bob Supnik <bob at supnik.org <mailto:bob at supnik.org>>
> To: simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>
> Subject: Re: [Simh] NetBSD 5.1 on MicoVAX 3900 boot error
> Message-ID: <4ee0f9dc-071c-9ea9-fe74-48134c5e979b at supnik.org
> <mailto:4ee0f9dc-071c-9ea9-fe74-48134c5e979b at supnik.org>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> You can get a pre-built Windows 32b 3.9 executable without Ethernet (and
> therefore, without needing WinPCap) here:
> http://simh.trailing-edge.com/sources/simhv39-0-exe.zip
> <http://simh.trailing-edge.com/sources/simhv39-0-exe.zip>. It should run
> fine under W10. See if it will boot NetBSD 5.1.
>
> /Bob Supnik
>
> On 4/18/2017 3:53 PM, simh-request at trailing-edge.com
> <mailto:simh-request at trailing-edge.com> wrote:
> > You shouldn't need WinPCAP merely to test if the CD image is
> bootable.
> > The point of the boot test exercise is to help determine if the
> problem is
> > in NetBSD or due to recent changes to simh. If changes to simh
> are at
> > fault, I'll track it down and fix the problem.
> >
> >> I specifically want to run a 5.x version of NetBSD. I'm pretty
> sure it did
> >> run on SIMH 3.8-1 on Windows 7 before the upgrade. I need to
> downgrade a
> >> laptop I have to Win7 in the future and may try that. Until then
> I'll play
> >> with OpenBSD which doesn't seem to have any problems with SIMH
> 4.0 beta.
> > The boot test I'm suggesting will be far less work than setting
> up another
> > system.
> >
> > Let me know.
> >
> > - Mark
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:39:08 +0200
> From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se <mailto:bqt at softjar.se>>
> To: simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>
> Subject: Re: [Simh] DEC VT emulators on MAME
> Message-ID: <2e3a017d-0166-df35-3b92-11ab3a6912f4 at softjar.se
> <mailto:2e3a017d-0166-df35-3b92-11ab3a6912f4 at softjar.se>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Ok, looked at the schematics now.
>
> On 2017-04-18 21:53, Timothe Litt wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Since they're windowless, they are not EPROM (remember what the E
> >> stands for), but plain ROMs.
> > Nope. I meant exactly what I wrote.
>
> [...]
>
> Good point about it being the same chip. I hadn't considered that
> possibility. I know that for some 27-series proms, there were certainly
> both mask programmable as well as EPROM versions, where the mask
> programmable was more persistent safe. EPROMs have a risk of loosing
> their content eventually, even if not exposed to UV light.
>
> > As for which signal you use for what - it doesn't matter. OE
> puts the
> > chip into a low power state just as effectively as CS - assuming that
> > the part isn't in programming or ID mode. Since the part is never
> > written (in the terminal), this effectively gives you 2 CS pins
> > (effectively ANDed), and thus decoding requires at most an inverter.
>
> Not entirely true.
> OE should timing wise be done after CS and addresses have been stable
> for a certain time. And power consumption of the chip is related to the
> control of CS, and is not related to OE.
>
> While power consumption might not be a problem, and the timing can be
> solve, it does mean that driving CS and OE cannot be done identically.
> If you use OE as a CS, you should make make sure the address is stable
> some time before you activate OE, and if you use CS, you need to still
> drive OE at a point later in time, and not just tie them together or
> something.
>
> > The 27C256 is a 32K x 8 part; it has no A15 (but the cartridge
> socket does.)
>
> Yes, that was obvious.
>
> > Keven pointed out that the odd chip is probably the character
> generator
> > ROM - thus the separate address and data bus - and it doesn't
> need a CS
> > or OE. It's always reading something.
> >
> > As I've written before, rather than guessing, a few minutes with an
> > ohmmeter can sort all this out.
> >
> > I'm leaving that - and further exploration - as an exercise to
> the reader.
>
> I seriously doubt it's a character generator ROM in the normal sense of
> the word. The VT340 do not generate character output in hardware.
> It's a graphic terminal, which stores the text in the the bitmap, as far
> as I remember (I seem to remember being able to go into graphics mode
> and affect text already written). Also, you have soft definable
> characters, so the CPU need to have access to the same memory the
> character generator would use anyway, and it has to contain some RAM,
> minimum. So it needs to be in the normal memory space of the CPU.
>
> But there is indeed two address and databuses, so I think it's fair to
> say the two select lines are only used for a subset of the PROMs.
>
> There might be data in one ROM that is copied into RAM at startup.
> Character definition tables, for example, I could imagine.
>
> Anyway, most things can be worked out my doing the measurements you
> suggest, yes.
>
> Johnny
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: bqt at softjar.se <mailto:bqt at softjar.se> ||
> Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 15:07:06 -0700
> From: Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com <mailto:phiber at phiber.com>>
> To: Bob Supnik <bob at supnik.org <mailto:bob at supnik.org>>
> Cc: simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>
> Subject: Re: [Simh] NetBSD 5.1 on MicoVAX 3900 boot error
> Message-ID:
>
> <CAPCE1iYZrkE19nrcTB-K-ZArhYi0USyAZY0FRFBvCsQwMRw30g at mail.gmail.com
> <mailto:CAPCE1iYZrkE19nrcTB-K-ZArhYi0USyAZY0FRFBvCsQwMRw30g at mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Should one want winpcap in Windows 10, all one needs is:
> http://www.win10pcap.org/
>
> -Mark
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Bob Supnik <bob at supnik.org
> <mailto:bob at supnik.org>> wrote:
>
> > You can get a pre-built Windows 32b 3.9 executable without
> Ethernet (and
> > therefore, without needing WinPCap) here:
> http://simh.trailing-edge.com/
> > sources/simhv39-0-exe.zip. It should run fine under W10. See if
> it will
> > boot NetBSD 5.1.
> >
> > /Bob Supnik
> >
> >
> > On 4/18/2017 3:53 PM, simh-request at trailing-edge.com
> <mailto:simh-request at trailing-edge.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You shouldn't need WinPCAP merely to test if the CD image is
> bootable.
> >> The point of the boot test exercise is to help determine if the
> problem is
> >> in NetBSD or due to recent changes to simh. If changes to simh
> are at
> >> fault, I'll track it down and fix the problem.
> >>
> >> I specifically want to run a 5.x version of NetBSD. I'm pretty
> sure it did
> >>> run on SIMH 3.8-1 on Windows 7 before the upgrade. I need to
> downgrade a
> >>> laptop I have to Win7 in the future and may try that. Until
> then I'll
> >>> play
> >>> with OpenBSD which doesn't seem to have any problems with SIMH
> 4.0 beta.
> >>>
> >> The boot test I'm suggesting will be far less work than setting
> up another
> >> system.
> >>
> >> Let me know.
> >>
> >> - Mark
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com>
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh>
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:39:48 -0700
> From: Mark Pizzolato <Mark at infocomm.com <mailto:Mark at infocomm.com>>
> To: Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com <mailto:phiber at phiber.com>>, Bob
> Supnik <bob at supnik.org <mailto:bob at supnik.org>>
> Cc: "simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>"
> <simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Simh] NetBSD 5.1 on MicoVAX 3900 boot error
> Message-ID:
>
> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A82E8242E585 at REDROOF2.alohasunset.com
> <mailto:03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A82E8242E585 at REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Actually, the latest simh ‘supported’ WinPcap is npcap.
>
> Npcap is part of the nmap project and directly shares the latest
> libpcap code.
>
> Npcap has a BSD license like the original WinPcap did. Win10pcap is
> a GPL package and is untested and unsupported for use with simh
> Ethernet devices.
>
> Npcap is available from: https://github.com/nmap/npcap/releases
> <https://github.com/nmap/npcap/releases>
>
> From: Simh [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com
> <mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com>] On Behalf Of Mark Abene
> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 3:07 PM
> To: Bob Supnik <bob at supnik.org <mailto:bob at supnik.org>>
> Cc: simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>
> Subject: Re: [Simh] NetBSD 5.1 on MicoVAX 3900 boot error
>
> Should one want winpcap in Windows 10, all one needs is:
> http://www.win10pcap.org/
>
> -Mark
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Bob Supnik <bob at supnik.org
> <mailto:bob at supnik.org><mailto:bob at supnik.org
> <mailto:bob at supnik.org>>> wrote:
> You can get a pre-built Windows 32b 3.9 executable without Ethernet
> (and therefore, without needing WinPCap) here:
> http://simh.trailing-edge.com/sources/simhv39-0-exe.zip
> <http://simh.trailing-edge.com/sources/simhv39-0-exe.zip>. It should
> run fine under W10. See if it will boot NetBSD 5.1.
>
> /Bob Supnik
>
>
> On 4/18/2017 3:53 PM, simh-request at trailing-edge.com
> <mailto:simh-request at trailing-edge.com><mailto:simh-request at trailing-edge.com
> <mailto:simh-request at trailing-edge.com>> wrote:
> You shouldn't need WinPCAP merely to test if the CD image is bootable.
> The point of the boot test exercise is to help determine if the
> problem is
> in NetBSD or due to recent changes to simh. If changes to simh are at
> fault, I'll track it down and fix the problem.
> I specifically want to run a 5.x version of NetBSD. I'm pretty sure
> it did
> run on SIMH 3.8-1 on Windows 7 before the upgrade. I need to downgrade a
> laptop I have to Win7 in the future and may try that. Until then
> I'll play
> with OpenBSD which doesn't seem to have any problems with SIMH 4.0 beta.
> The boot test I'm suggesting will be far less work than setting up
> another
> system.
>
> Let me know.
>
> - Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> <mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com><mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com
> <mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com>>
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 01:05:20 -0600
> From: Kevin Handy <khandy21yo at gmail.com <mailto:khandy21yo at gmail.com>>
> To: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se <mailto:bqt at softjar.se>>
> Cc: "simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>"
> <simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Simh] DEC VT emulators on MAME
> Message-ID:
>
> <CANk4W2OuRsR=uLH_856YSmrG4hJurJFUkn6tq_+HGWsAegh24Q at mail.gmail.com
> <mailto:uLH_856YSmrG4hJurJFUkn6tq_%2BHGWsAegh24Q at mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Looking at the schematic of the terminal from
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/terminal/vt340/K-TC-VT340_Schematic_Feb87.pdf
> <http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/terminal/vt340/K-TC-VT340_Schematic_Feb87.pdf>,
> it appears that there are two 8031 processors. One (E57) uses the
> 'P1 AA'
> bus and has the 51x8 nvrom, the other (E24) uses the 'P2 BA' bus.
>
> 64Kx8 ram seems to be shared between them.
>
> 1st guess, E57 does most of the heavy work (serial, uart, keyboard,
> etc),
> and the other E24 handles the display.
>
> Also, for chip select,there is a 'P1 AA15 H' and a'P1 AA15 L' on the
> connector which should help with the chip selection logic. (ie. the
> inverter is inside the terminal, not on the card).
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se
> <mailto:bqt at softjar.se>> wrote:
>
> > Ok, looked at the schematics now.
> >
> > On 2017-04-18 21:53, Timothe Litt wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Since they're windowless, they are not EPROM (remember what the E
> >>> stands for), but plain ROMs.
> >>>
> >> Nope. I meant exactly what I wrote.
> >>
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Good point about it being the same chip. I hadn't considered that
> > possibility. I know that for some 27-series proms, there were
> certainly
> > both mask programmable as well as EPROM versions, where the mask
> > programmable was more persistent safe. EPROMs have a risk of
> loosing their
> > content eventually, even if not exposed to UV light.
> >
> > As for which signal you use for what - it doesn't matter. OE
> puts the
> >> chip into a low power state just as effectively as CS - assuming
> that
> >> the part isn't in programming or ID mode. Since the part is never
> >> written (in the terminal), this effectively gives you 2 CS pins
> >> (effectively ANDed), and thus decoding requires at most an inverter.
> >>
> >
> > Not entirely true.
> > OE should timing wise be done after CS and addresses have been
> stable for
> > a certain time. And power consumption of the chip is related to
> the control
> > of CS, and is not related to OE.
> >
> > While power consumption might not be a problem, and the timing can be
> > solve, it does mean that driving CS and OE cannot be done
> identically. If
> > you use OE as a CS, you should make make sure the address is
> stable some
> > time before you activate OE, and if you use CS, you need to still
> drive OE
> > at a point later in time, and not just tie them together or
> something.
> >
> > The 27C256 is a 32K x 8 part; it has no A15 (but the cartridge socket
> >> does.)
> >>
> >
> > Yes, that was obvious.
> >
> > Keven pointed out that the odd chip is probably the character
> generator
> >> ROM - thus the separate address and data bus - and it doesn't
> need a CS
> >> or OE. It's always reading something.
> >>
> >> As I've written before, rather than guessing, a few minutes with an
> >> ohmmeter can sort all this out.
> >>
> >> I'm leaving that - and further exploration - as an exercise to
> the reader.
> >>
> >
> > I seriously doubt it's a character generator ROM in the normal
> sense of
> > the word. The VT340 do not generate character output in hardware.
> > It's a graphic terminal, which stores the text in the the bitmap,
> as far
> > as I remember (I seem to remember being able to go into graphics
> mode and
> > affect text already written). Also, you have soft definable
> characters, so
> > the CPU need to have access to the same memory the character
> generator
> > would use anyway, and it has to contain some RAM, minimum. So it
> needs to
> > be in the normal memory space of the CPU.
> >
> > But there is indeed two address and databuses, so I think it's
> fair to say
> > the two select lines are only used for a subset of the PROMs.
> >
> > There might be data in one ROM that is copied into RAM at startup.
> > Character definition tables, for example, I could imagine.
> >
> > Anyway, most things can be worked out my doing the measurements you
> > suggest, yes.
> >
> >
> > Johnny
> >
> > --
> > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > || on a psychedelic trip
> > email: bqt at softjar.se <mailto:bqt at softjar.se> ||
> Reading murder books
> > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> > _______________________________________________
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com>
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh>
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
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> <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Simh Digest, Vol 159, Issue 26
> *************************************
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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