[Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 166, Issue 11
Peter Allan
petermallan at gmail.com
Sun Nov 5 14:21:15 EST 2017
The problem occurs when running VMS 3.0. I need to do this to prepare for
the installation of VMS 1.5.
Peter
On 5 November 2017 at 11:47, <simh-request at trailing-edge.com> wrote:
> Send Simh mailing list submissions to
> simh at trailing-edge.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> simh-request at trailing-edge.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> simh-owner at trailing-edge.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Simh digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: VMS 1.5 installable? (Bob Eager)
> 2. Re: VMS 1.5 installable? (Wilm Boerhout)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2017 11:12:15 +0000
> From: Bob Eager <rde at tavi.co.uk>
> To: simh at trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] VMS 1.5 installable?
> Message-ID: <20171105111215.52533c75 at raksha.tavi.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Did VMS 1.5 support the TS11? I thought the TS11 came out later.
>
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 10:39:15 +0000
> Peter Allan <petermallan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks to Wilm, I now have VMS 1.5 up and running. This is new
> > territory for me since my first exposure to VAXen was in late 1982
> > when the version was something like 3.0, or just possibly the last
> > version of 2.x. (I didn't pay attention to such things back then. If
> > I could write Fortran programs, I was happy.)
> >
> > However, the fact that I could complete the installation of VMS 3.0 by
> > using a simulated TS11 tape drive when it failed with a TE16 drive
> > has got me wondering if there is a bug in simh. Surely on a real
> > system you could use a real TS11 or TE16 drive? Obviously there is no
> > density on a simulated tape file, but is there any other difference
> > between the two simulated tape drives that explains what is going on?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Peter Allan
> >
> >
> > On 25 October 2017 at 14:08, Peter Allan <petermallan at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Wilm, I will try that out. I doubt I would have thought of
> > > using a TS11 rather than a TE16 without your advice.
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > On 25 October 2017 at 12:39, Wilm Boerhout <wboerhout at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Your approach is correct, I have regularly used it over the past
> > >> weeks to bring up VMS 1.0.
> > >>
> > >> I also saw these CRC errors on restore sometimes. There are two
> > >> ways around this:
> > >>
> > >> 1. Mount the 3.0 tape on a generic (newer) VAX/VMS system, use
> > >> $MOUNT/OVER=ID and copy the LIBRARY and OPTIONAL savesets to a
> > >> (RP06-sized) disk in the [0,0] directory. In a later step, $
> > >> mount /foreign this disk, and point the installer to this disk as
> > >> the source. 2. On your 3.0 system just booted with just the
> > >> REQUIRED saveset, use a TS11 and not a TE16 tape unit in the simh
> > >> config. Somehow this worked. Also, when you use a TE16, use an
> > >> explicit $MOU/FOR /DEN=800. I forget in which version, but this
> > >> also worked sometimes.
> > >>
> > >> HTH
> > >>
> > >> /Wilm
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Peter Allan schreef op 25-10-2017 om 13:30:
> > >>
> > >>> Encouraged by all of the posting about running VMS 1.5 on an
> > >>> emulated VAX 780 with simh, I have tried to do the same. However,
> > >>> I am having a problem.
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't have an existing VMS 3.x system running (4.6 is my
> > >>> earliest), so I tried to do a VMS 3.0 installation using the tape
> > >>> from uni-stuttgart which I had downloaded some time ago.
> > >>>
> > >>> I booted a VMS 4.6 system on an emulated 780 and did an image
> > >>> restore using BACKUP of the REQUIRED saveset on the VMS 3.0
> > >>> installation tape to an RP06. So far, so good. Then I booted the
> > >>> newly created RP06 disk, which continued the installation process
> > >>> by attempting to restore the LIBRARY saveset on the VMS 3.0 tape.
> > >>> However, this crashed with too many CRC errors.
> > >>>
> > >>> This is where I am stuck. I could download the tape from
> > >>> uni-stuttgart again, but is there any reason to expect a better
> > >>> result by doing this? Can someone who has got this to work advise
> > >>> me what to try next please. I have downloaded the files that
> > >>> Christian posted, but while that has standalone backup on a disk
> > >>> image, I need DSC to read the VMS 1.5 tape (don't I?) which is
> > >>> the only reason that I was trying to get VMS 3.0 working in the
> > >>> first place.
> > >>>
> > >>> Cheers
> > >>>
> > >>> Peter Allan
> > >>>
> > >>> On 20 October 2017 at 09:43, Wilm Boerhout <wboerhout at gmail.com
> > >>> <mailto: wboerhout at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Matt Burke schreef op 17-10-2017 om 23:17:
> > >>>
> > >>> You may also want to try VAX/VMS 1.0 (or as close as you
> > >>> can get to it):
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip
> > >>> <http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip>
> > >>>
> > >>> This is not taken from an original tape. It's something I
> > >>> reconstructed
> > >>> from a disk containing early VAX/VMS source and binaries.
> > >>> The dates
> > >>> indicate that this is earlier than VAX/VMS 1.5.
> > >>> Hopefully someone can find an original at some point.
> > >>>
> > >>> Matt
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Simh mailing list
> > >>> Simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com>
> > >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> > >>> <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Wonderful!
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I now have VMS 1.0 up and running on simh VAX780. Does anyone
> > >>> know whereto find the Fortran installation tape for this system?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> BTW, I also use a fine VT52 emulator I found on github.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> /Wilm
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Simh mailing list
> > >>> Simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com>
> > >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> > >>> <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Simh mailing list
> > >>> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> > >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Simh mailing list
> > >> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> > >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> > >>
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2017 11:47:40 +0000
> From: Wilm Boerhout <wilm at boerhout.nl>
> To: Bob Eager <rde at tavi.co.uk>, simh at trailing-edge.com
> Subject: Re: [Simh] VMS 1.5 installable?
> Message-ID:
> <CAHuToNY1R7G2dGaEuFiECvQQRPO3BCR5zXnyfPnqdrfqNan_hg at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> A simh VAX-11/780 may be configured with a lot of simulated hardware. VMS
> 1.0 has drivers for only a very small subset of these. VMS 1.5 has a few
> more. Peter and myself used VMS 3.0 with a TS11 to operate DSC2 in
> restoring the VMS 1 .5 tape. Indeed the early versions of VMS did not
> support the TS11, but that is not relevant for this staged restore
> procedure.
>
> His question why the restore works with the TS11 and not with the TE16
> remains valid for VMS3.0
>
> W
>
> Op zo 5 nov. 2017 om 12:12 schreef Bob Eager <rde at tavi.co.uk>
>
> > Did VMS 1.5 support the TS11? I thought the TS11 came out later.
> >
> > On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 10:39:15 +0000
> > Peter Allan <petermallan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks to Wilm, I now have VMS 1.5 up and running. This is new
> > > territory for me since my first exposure to VAXen was in late 1982
> > > when the version was something like 3.0, or just possibly the last
> > > version of 2.x. (I didn't pay attention to such things back then. If
> > > I could write Fortran programs, I was happy.)
> > >
> > > However, the fact that I could complete the installation of VMS 3.0 by
> > > using a simulated TS11 tape drive when it failed with a TE16 drive
> > > has got me wondering if there is a bug in simh. Surely on a real
> > > system you could use a real TS11 or TE16 drive? Obviously there is no
> > > density on a simulated tape file, but is there any other difference
> > > between the two simulated tape drives that explains what is going on?
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Peter Allan
> > >
> > >
> > > On 25 October 2017 at 14:08, Peter Allan <petermallan at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks Wilm, I will try that out. I doubt I would have thought of
> > > > using a TS11 rather than a TE16 without your advice.
> > > >
> > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > > On 25 October 2017 at 12:39, Wilm Boerhout <wboerhout at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Your approach is correct, I have regularly used it over the past
> > > >> weeks to bring up VMS 1.0.
> > > >>
> > > >> I also saw these CRC errors on restore sometimes. There are two
> > > >> ways around this:
> > > >>
> > > >> 1. Mount the 3.0 tape on a generic (newer) VAX/VMS system, use
> > > >> $MOUNT/OVER=ID and copy the LIBRARY and OPTIONAL savesets to a
> > > >> (RP06-sized) disk in the [0,0] directory. In a later step, $
> > > >> mount /foreign this disk, and point the installer to this disk as
> > > >> the source. 2. On your 3.0 system just booted with just the
> > > >> REQUIRED saveset, use a TS11 and not a TE16 tape unit in the simh
> > > >> config. Somehow this worked. Also, when you use a TE16, use an
> > > >> explicit $MOU/FOR /DEN=800. I forget in which version, but this
> > > >> also worked sometimes.
> > > >>
> > > >> HTH
> > > >>
> > > >> /Wilm
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Peter Allan schreef op 25-10-2017 om 13:30:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Encouraged by all of the posting about running VMS 1.5 on an
> > > >>> emulated VAX 780 with simh, I have tried to do the same. However,
> > > >>> I am having a problem.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I don't have an existing VMS 3.x system running (4.6 is my
> > > >>> earliest), so I tried to do a VMS 3.0 installation using the tape
> > > >>> from uni-stuttgart which I had downloaded some time ago.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I booted a VMS 4.6 system on an emulated 780 and did an image
> > > >>> restore using BACKUP of the REQUIRED saveset on the VMS 3.0
> > > >>> installation tape to an RP06. So far, so good. Then I booted the
> > > >>> newly created RP06 disk, which continued the installation process
> > > >>> by attempting to restore the LIBRARY saveset on the VMS 3.0 tape.
> > > >>> However, this crashed with too many CRC errors.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> This is where I am stuck. I could download the tape from
> > > >>> uni-stuttgart again, but is there any reason to expect a better
> > > >>> result by doing this? Can someone who has got this to work advise
> > > >>> me what to try next please. I have downloaded the files that
> > > >>> Christian posted, but while that has standalone backup on a disk
> > > >>> image, I need DSC to read the VMS 1.5 tape (don't I?) which is
> > > >>> the only reason that I was trying to get VMS 3.0 working in the
> > > >>> first place.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Cheers
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Peter Allan
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On 20 October 2017 at 09:43, Wilm Boerhout <wboerhout at gmail.com
> > > >>> <mailto: wboerhout at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Matt Burke schreef op 17-10-2017 om 23:17:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> You may also want to try VAX/VMS 1.0 (or as close as you
> > > >>> can get to it):
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip
> > > >>> <http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> This is not taken from an original tape. It's something I
> > > >>> reconstructed
> > > >>> from a disk containing early VAX/VMS source and binaries.
> > > >>> The dates
> > > >>> indicate that this is earlier than VAX/VMS 1.5.
> > > >>> Hopefully someone can find an original at some point.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Matt
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> Simh mailing list
> > > >>> Simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com>
> > > >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> > > >>> <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Wonderful!
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I now have VMS 1.0 up and running on simh VAX780. Does anyone
> > > >>> know whereto find the Fortran installation tape for this system?
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> BTW, I also use a fine VT52 emulator I found on github.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> /Wilm
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> Simh mailing list
> > > >>> Simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com>
> > > >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> > > >>> <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> Simh mailing list
> > > >>> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> > > >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Simh mailing list
> > > >> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> > > >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Simh mailing list
> > Simh at trailing-edge.com
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
> --
> Wilm
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/pipermail/simh/
> attachments/20171105/7dc40695/attachment.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Simh Digest, Vol 166, Issue 11
> *************************************
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/pipermail/simh/attachments/20171105/269a5b8f/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the Simh
mailing list