<div dir="ltr">The problem occurs when running VMS 3.0. I need to do this to prepare for the installation of VMS 1.5.<div><br></div><div>Peter</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 5 November 2017 at 11:47, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:simh-request@trailing-edge.com" target="_blank">simh-request@trailing-edge.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Simh mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: VMS 1.5 installable? (Bob Eager)<br>
2. Re: VMS 1.5 installable? (Wilm Boerhout)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2017 11:12:15 +0000<br>
From: Bob Eager <<a href="mailto:rde@tavi.co.uk">rde@tavi.co.uk</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com">simh@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Simh] VMS 1.5 installable?<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:20171105111215.52533c75@raksha.tavi.co.uk">20171105111215.52533c75@<wbr>raksha.tavi.co.uk</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
<br>
Did VMS 1.5 support the TS11? I thought the TS11 came out later.<br>
<br>
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 10:39:15 +0000<br>
Peter Allan <<a href="mailto:petermallan@gmail.com">petermallan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Thanks to Wilm, I now have VMS 1.5 up and running. This is new<br>
> territory for me since my first exposure to VAXen was in late 1982<br>
> when the version was something like 3.0, or just possibly the last<br>
> version of 2.x. (I didn't pay attention to such things back then. If<br>
> I could write Fortran programs, I was happy.)<br>
><br>
> However, the fact that I could complete the installation of VMS 3.0 by<br>
> using a simulated TS11 tape drive when it failed with a TE16 drive<br>
> has got me wondering if there is a bug in simh. Surely on a real<br>
> system you could use a real TS11 or TE16 drive? Obviously there is no<br>
> density on a simulated tape file, but is there any other difference<br>
> between the two simulated tape drives that explains what is going on?<br>
><br>
> Cheers<br>
><br>
> Peter Allan<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 25 October 2017 at 14:08, Peter Allan <<a href="mailto:petermallan@gmail.com">petermallan@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
> > Thanks Wilm, I will try that out. I doubt I would have thought of<br>
> > using a TS11 rather than a TE16 without your advice.<br>
> ><br>
> > Peter<br>
> ><br>
> > On 25 October 2017 at 12:39, Wilm Boerhout <<a href="mailto:wboerhout@gmail.com">wboerhout@gmail.com</a>><br>
> > wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> >> Your approach is correct, I have regularly used it over the past<br>
> >> weeks to bring up VMS 1.0.<br>
> >><br>
> >> I also saw these CRC errors on restore sometimes. There are two<br>
> >> ways around this:<br>
> >><br>
> >> 1. Mount the 3.0 tape on a generic (newer) VAX/VMS system, use<br>
> >> $MOUNT/OVER=ID and copy the LIBRARY and OPTIONAL savesets to a<br>
> >> (RP06-sized) disk in the [0,0] directory. In a later step, $<br>
> >> mount /foreign this disk, and point the installer to this disk as<br>
> >> the source. 2. On your 3.0 system just booted with just the<br>
> >> REQUIRED saveset, use a TS11 and not a TE16 tape unit in the simh<br>
> >> config. Somehow this worked. Also, when you use a TE16, use an<br>
> >> explicit $MOU/FOR /DEN=800. I forget in which version, but this<br>
> >> also worked sometimes.<br>
> >><br>
> >> HTH<br>
> >><br>
> >> /Wilm<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> Peter Allan schreef op 25-10-2017 om 13:30:<br>
> >><br>
> >>> Encouraged by all of the posting about running VMS 1.5 on an<br>
> >>> emulated VAX 780 with simh, I have tried to do the same. However,<br>
> >>> I am having a problem.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> I don't have an existing VMS 3.x system running (4.6 is my<br>
> >>> earliest), so I tried to do a VMS 3.0 installation using the tape<br>
> >>> from uni-stuttgart which I had downloaded some time ago.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> I booted a VMS 4.6 system on an emulated 780 and did an image<br>
> >>> restore using BACKUP of the REQUIRED saveset on the VMS 3.0<br>
> >>> installation tape to an RP06. So far, so good. Then I booted the<br>
> >>> newly created RP06 disk, which continued the installation process<br>
> >>> by attempting to restore the LIBRARY saveset on the VMS 3.0 tape.<br>
> >>> However, this crashed with too many CRC errors.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> This is where I am stuck. I could download the tape from<br>
> >>> uni-stuttgart again, but is there any reason to expect a better<br>
> >>> result by doing this? Can someone who has got this to work advise<br>
> >>> me what to try next please. I have downloaded the files that<br>
> >>> Christian posted, but while that has standalone backup on a disk<br>
> >>> image, I need DSC to read the VMS 1.5 tape (don't I?) which is<br>
> >>> the only reason that I was trying to get VMS 3.0 working in the<br>
> >>> first place.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Cheers<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Peter Allan<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> On 20 October 2017 at 09:43, Wilm Boerhout <<a href="mailto:wboerhout@gmail.com">wboerhout@gmail.com</a><br>
> >>> <mailto: <a href="mailto:wboerhout@gmail.com">wboerhout@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Matt Burke schreef op 17-10-2017 om 23:17:<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> You may also want to try VAX/VMS 1.0 (or as close as you<br>
> >>> can get to it):<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> <a href="http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-<wbr>D782A-BE.zip</a><br>
> >>> <<a href="http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-<wbr>D782A-BE.zip</a>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> This is not taken from an original tape. It's something I<br>
> >>> reconstructed<br>
> >>> from a disk containing early VAX/VMS source and binaries.<br>
> >>> The dates<br>
> >>> indicate that this is earlier than VAX/VMS 1.5.<br>
> >>> Hopefully someone can find an original at some point.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Matt<br>
> >>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> >>> Simh mailing list<br>
> >>> <a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><wbr>><br>
> >>> <a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
> >>> <<a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Wonderful!<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> I now have VMS 1.0 up and running on simh VAX780. Does anyone<br>
> >>> know whereto find the Fortran installation tape for this system?<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> BTW, I also use a fine VT52 emulator I found on github.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> /Wilm<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> >>> Simh mailing list<br>
> >>> <a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><wbr>><br>
> >>> <a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
> >>> <<a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> >>> Simh mailing list<br>
> >>> <a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
> >>> <a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
> >>><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> >> Simh mailing list<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
> >> <a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
> >><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2017 11:47:40 +0000<br>
From: Wilm Boerhout <<a href="mailto:wilm@boerhout.nl">wilm@boerhout.nl</a>><br>
To: Bob Eager <<a href="mailto:rde@tavi.co.uk">rde@tavi.co.uk</a>>, <a href="mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com">simh@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Simh] VMS 1.5 installable?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAHuToNY1R7G2dGaEuFiECvQQRPO3BCR5zXnyfPnqdrfqNan_hg@mail.gmail.com">CAHuToNY1R7G2dGaEuFiECvQQRPO3<wbr>BCR5zXnyfPnqdrfqNan_hg@mail.<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
A simh VAX-11/780 may be configured with a lot of simulated hardware. VMS<br>
1.0 has drivers for only a very small subset of these. VMS 1.5 has a few<br>
more. Peter and myself used VMS 3.0 with a TS11 to operate DSC2 in<br>
restoring the VMS 1 .5 tape. Indeed the early versions of VMS did not<br>
support the TS11, but that is not relevant for this staged restore<br>
procedure.<br>
<br>
His question why the restore works with the TS11 and not with the TE16<br>
remains valid for VMS3.0<br>
<br>
W<br>
<br>
Op zo 5 nov. 2017 om 12:12 schreef Bob Eager <<a href="mailto:rde@tavi.co.uk">rde@tavi.co.uk</a>><br>
<br>
> Did VMS 1.5 support the TS11? I thought the TS11 came out later.<br>
><br>
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 10:39:15 +0000<br>
> Peter Allan <<a href="mailto:petermallan@gmail.com">petermallan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> > Thanks to Wilm, I now have VMS 1.5 up and running. This is new<br>
> > territory for me since my first exposure to VAXen was in late 1982<br>
> > when the version was something like 3.0, or just possibly the last<br>
> > version of 2.x. (I didn't pay attention to such things back then. If<br>
> > I could write Fortran programs, I was happy.)<br>
> ><br>
> > However, the fact that I could complete the installation of VMS 3.0 by<br>
> > using a simulated TS11 tape drive when it failed with a TE16 drive<br>
> > has got me wondering if there is a bug in simh. Surely on a real<br>
> > system you could use a real TS11 or TE16 drive? Obviously there is no<br>
> > density on a simulated tape file, but is there any other difference<br>
> > between the two simulated tape drives that explains what is going on?<br>
> ><br>
> > Cheers<br>
> ><br>
> > Peter Allan<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On 25 October 2017 at 14:08, Peter Allan <<a href="mailto:petermallan@gmail.com">petermallan@gmail.com</a>><br>
> > wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > > Thanks Wilm, I will try that out. I doubt I would have thought of<br>
> > > using a TS11 rather than a TE16 without your advice.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Peter<br>
> > ><br>
> > > On 25 October 2017 at 12:39, Wilm Boerhout <<a href="mailto:wboerhout@gmail.com">wboerhout@gmail.com</a>><br>
> > > wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > >> Your approach is correct, I have regularly used it over the past<br>
> > >> weeks to bring up VMS 1.0.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> I also saw these CRC errors on restore sometimes. There are two<br>
> > >> ways around this:<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> 1. Mount the 3.0 tape on a generic (newer) VAX/VMS system, use<br>
> > >> $MOUNT/OVER=ID and copy the LIBRARY and OPTIONAL savesets to a<br>
> > >> (RP06-sized) disk in the [0,0] directory. In a later step, $<br>
> > >> mount /foreign this disk, and point the installer to this disk as<br>
> > >> the source. 2. On your 3.0 system just booted with just the<br>
> > >> REQUIRED saveset, use a TS11 and not a TE16 tape unit in the simh<br>
> > >> config. Somehow this worked. Also, when you use a TE16, use an<br>
> > >> explicit $MOU/FOR /DEN=800. I forget in which version, but this<br>
> > >> also worked sometimes.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> HTH<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> /Wilm<br>
> > >><br>
> > >><br>
> > >> Peter Allan schreef op 25-10-2017 om 13:30:<br>
> > >><br>
> > >>> Encouraged by all of the posting about running VMS 1.5 on an<br>
> > >>> emulated VAX 780 with simh, I have tried to do the same. However,<br>
> > >>> I am having a problem.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> I don't have an existing VMS 3.x system running (4.6 is my<br>
> > >>> earliest), so I tried to do a VMS 3.0 installation using the tape<br>
> > >>> from uni-stuttgart which I had downloaded some time ago.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> I booted a VMS 4.6 system on an emulated 780 and did an image<br>
> > >>> restore using BACKUP of the REQUIRED saveset on the VMS 3.0<br>
> > >>> installation tape to an RP06. So far, so good. Then I booted the<br>
> > >>> newly created RP06 disk, which continued the installation process<br>
> > >>> by attempting to restore the LIBRARY saveset on the VMS 3.0 tape.<br>
> > >>> However, this crashed with too many CRC errors.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> This is where I am stuck. I could download the tape from<br>
> > >>> uni-stuttgart again, but is there any reason to expect a better<br>
> > >>> result by doing this? Can someone who has got this to work advise<br>
> > >>> me what to try next please. I have downloaded the files that<br>
> > >>> Christian posted, but while that has standalone backup on a disk<br>
> > >>> image, I need DSC to read the VMS 1.5 tape (don't I?) which is<br>
> > >>> the only reason that I was trying to get VMS 3.0 working in the<br>
> > >>> first place.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> Cheers<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> Peter Allan<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> On 20 October 2017 at 09:43, Wilm Boerhout <<a href="mailto:wboerhout@gmail.com">wboerhout@gmail.com</a><br>
> > >>> <mailto: <a href="mailto:wboerhout@gmail.com">wboerhout@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> Matt Burke schreef op 17-10-2017 om 23:17:<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> You may also want to try VAX/VMS 1.0 (or as close as you<br>
> > >>> can get to it):<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> <a href="http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-<wbr>D782A-BE.zip</a><br>
> > >>> <<a href="http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-<wbr>D782A-BE.zip</a>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> This is not taken from an original tape. It's something I<br>
> > >>> reconstructed<br>
> > >>> from a disk containing early VAX/VMS source and binaries.<br>
> > >>> The dates<br>
> > >>> indicate that this is earlier than VAX/VMS 1.5.<br>
> > >>> Hopefully someone can find an original at some point.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> Matt<br>
> > >>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> > >>> Simh mailing list<br>
> > >>> <a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><wbr>><br>
> > >>> <a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
> > >>> <<a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> Wonderful!<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> I now have VMS 1.0 up and running on simh VAX780. Does anyone<br>
> > >>> know whereto find the Fortran installation tape for this system?<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> BTW, I also use a fine VT52 emulator I found on github.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> /Wilm<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> > >>> Simh mailing list<br>
> > >>> <a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><wbr>><br>
> > >>> <a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
> > >>> <<a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> > >>> Simh mailing list<br>
> > >>> <a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
> > >>> <a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >><br>
> > >><br>
> > >> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> > >> Simh mailing list<br>
> > >> <a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
> > >> <a href="http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.trailing-edge.<wbr>com/mailman/listinfo/simh</a><br>
> > >><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> Simh mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com">Simh@trailing-edge.com</a><br>
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<br>
--<br>
Wilm<br>
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