[Simh] Free USER SPACE DECNET LAT MOP

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2016-02-21 16:02, Timothe Litt wrote:
> On 21-Feb-16 08:06, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>> Then I mis-remembered.    I thought someone on the list reported running
>>> it.  18 years ago I could have put my hands on a copy fairly easily :-(
>>
>> I know several people have asked for it. I have no idea where to find
>> it either. Well, actually, maybe I do, but I have not tried...
>>
>>
>> Correct. It all went to Mentec Inc, and when Mentec folded, it was
>> bought by XX2247, who is the current owner. I haven't
>> asked/investigated, but it's quite possible that XX2247 do have DECnet
>> for RT-11. They certainly have RT-11 itself, I'm sure.
>>
> I knew Mentec folded, but didn't know about xx2247.  Google reveals that
> Al Kossow tried to work the hobbyist licensing issue with HP a few years
> ago, but HP was too busy worrying about self-dissection at the time.
> Maybe that's changed...

I wish, but I don't think so. I know Al have tried quite some, but as 
you say, HP has been way too busy just self destructing. Not to mention 
the difficulties even finding anyone who even knows what you talk about 
if you say "PDP-11", much less dare to commit to saying yes when they 
can't really figure out what that might imply...

XX2247 is owned by Dave Carroll, ex DEC, ex Mentec.

> The old Mentec hobbyist license allowed old versions (which RT-11 DECnet
> would be), on "an emulator {at that time} owned by DEC".
> SimH is the descendant of that emulator; everyone here proceeds on the
> assumption that the license still applies.  Even though DEC is no more,
> SimH is the emulator that DEC owned then.  Bob got DEC to release
> ownership of the emulator.  There's no place for hobbyists to send the
> signed licenses to, but that's a detail encountered in other cases.

Yes. I usually accept that this license is still usable, even though it 
might be a bit murky waters. However, one issue with the license is that 
it only covers old versions of the PDP-11 OSes (as you say). Something 
like "whatever was released before 1990" or something like that. I'm 
sure someone can dig up the correct phrase. Anyway, it means that the 
actual, latest versions of the software is not covered anyway. And it 
would be really nice if people would be allowed to run the sane, best 
versions instead of something really old and buggy.

> If you know where to ask, it wouldn't hurt to do so.  I'm of the mind
> that at this point, we should gather as many bits as possible before
> they disappear.  Many people are retiring, downsizing or dying.  History
> that was saved tends to be lost at each stage.

The place to ask, that I'm thinking of, is obviously XX2247. I'm pretty 
sure Dave has RT-11. I would think that he also should have DECnet/RT 
(or what it was called), but since I don't really work with any RT-11 
software normally, I haven't really had the inclination to try and find 
anything out.

> Holding bits unused with the intent to preserve doesn't harm the owner,
> and while I'm not an attorney, I doubt it would cause a fuss.  The
> 'owner' might even be grateful.  With bits in-hand, it's a lot easier to
> talk about a specific legal issue & get permission to use and/or
> distribute them.

Agreed. Which is why I'm also on a long term quest to preserve RSX 
software. I have various bits and pieces, however, I am missing some 
layered software, and unfortunately, all layered software sources are 
still lost (as far as I know). I keep searching... If anyone have any 
ideas, let me know.

For the time being, though, you can at least rest assured that a fair 
amount of RSX stuff is being preserved.

> Holding a license when the bits have completely vanished isn't helpful.
> And negotiating for one in the abstract tends to entertain lawyers who
> worry about 'what ifs', with no concrete results.

Right. (Well, in my case, I even have the paperwork, but I'm obliged to 
not pass things on for the time being, but I'm hoping for the day when 
that changes...)

> With respect to RT-11 DECnet, I posted a note on the Linked-In DEC
> Alumni group to see if anyone there might have squirreled away these bits.

Hope you have more luck than I've had so far then. I've spoken to just 
about everyone I can think of, and have zilch for it.

	Johnny

-- 
Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                   ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se             ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol