[Simh] DECnet for TOPS-10

Thu Apr 18 23:58:28 EDT 2013

>   
> * The actual KS10 supports one KDP with 2 DUPs.  There are several
>    reasons for this, like unibus load, unibus space and speed.  This
>    places some limits in case one wants to build a network of emulators
>    and want to run both ANF and DECnet.  The KMC itself supports 16
>    if I remember correctly.  We should have at least 6-8, and allow
>    for a fairly simple mod to Tops10 to handle them.
This isn't necessary; just need one line per protocol.  2 lines suffice 
for TOPS-10 (and 1 for TOPS-20).  Just need a router for DECnet (a VAX 
does nicely).  The ANF-10 router can be a pdp-11 with a DUP running the 
ANF code (it ships and cross-assembles on TOPS-10; it assumes an 11/40 
FE (DN87/DN20), but can be built stand-alone and remote-booted as a DN80 
(see 
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/pdp10/TOPS10_softwareNotebooks/vol14/AA-D783B-TB_Remote_Station_Guide_Jul82.pdf 
and 
http://www.textfiles.com/bitsavers/pdf/dec/pdp10/TOPS10_softwareNotebooks/vol14/AA-W557A-TB_ANF-10.pdf). 

Or the KS can route - if you want the KS to route AND you want DECnet, 
then 3 lines would be required.

In real life, we used 11s for ANF and VAXes for DECnet; may as well 
simulate the experience.  (DN200s were 11/34s, and DN22s were II/(04?); 
both could run the ANF-10 code - at least the in-house versions).

We never had more than 2 DUPs on a KDP, though on TOPS-10 you COULD have 
2 DUPs + a DMR, which provides the 3 lines.  (And as previously noted, 
multiple DMRs are supported in the software.)

So there's no patch necessary and there's an opportunity to get the 
ANF-10/pdp11 code dusted off.  We may need to get the boot ROM code 
(M873 or M9301 or M9312) for the 11's from the LCG fiche.

This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.

On 18-Apr-13 14:58, Rob Jarratt wrote:
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-
>> edge.com] On Behalf Of Johnny Eriksson
>> Sent: 14 April 2013 21:10
>> To: simh at trailing-edge.com
>> Subject: Re: [Simh] DECnet for TOPS-10
>>
>> <r.jarratt at computer.org> wrote:
>>
>>> That has got to be worth integrating into the latest SIMH. Does that
>>> mean we can get DECnet running on TOPS-10 on SIMH? I would love to
>>> know how you actually install and set it up on TOPS-10.
>>>
>>> I will try to find some time to get the KMC/DUP into the latest SIMH.
>> You are welcome.  A number of random points:
>
> I have compiled something very basic into PDP10, the network code is
> actually stubbed out at the moment as I have to replace it with current SIMH
> code (going to look at TMXR).
>
> In the meantime, how can I check in TOPS-20 to see if the device is visible
> and then install DECnet? I remember finding some docs but I can't find them
> again now.
>
>
>
>> * My code sends the DDCMP frames out as UDP datagrams, and receives
>>    frames the same way.  You simply specify src/dst ports, and possibly
>>    an address (defaulting to 127.0.0.1).  This means that there is no
>>    need to do elaborate (blocking) setups of TCP connections etc. from
>>    inside the simulator.  This also makes it trivial to connect two
>>    simulators running on the same machine, or on the same (trusted) LAN.
>>
>> * A side effect of this is that you can have a helper process on your
>>    machine that does the TCP magic and also encrypts the traffic out
>>    on the evil internet.  My normal (at the moment defunct) setup is
>>    done that way.  One such program is on the site, named "stuk2.c"
>>    (don't ask...)
>>
>> * You can in theory write a helper process to talk to some real
>>    piece of hardware.  I have not tested, but it should work to send
>>    the frames to a serial port and connect it to a real machine
>>    running async DECnet on a terminal line...
>>
>> * The current crypto in stuk2 is weak.  Not the algorithm itself,
>>    RC4 (tm) is used, but some random padding etc. should be applied
>>    on the data stream, since it normally consists of 6-byte idle
>>    frames, with mostly known bits...
>
> Not sure what you are referring to here.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rob
>
>> * The actual KS10 supports one KDP with 2 DUPs.  There are several
>>    reasons for this, like unibus load, unibus space and speed.  This
>>    places some limits in case one wants to build a network of emulators
>>    and want to run both ANF and DECnet.  The KMC itself supports 16
>>    if I remember correctly.  We should have at least 6-8, and allow
>>    for a fairly simple mod to Tops10 to handle them.
>>
>> * I am willing to help out, but I have very limited time until after
>>    the CuG conference, mid May.
>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Rob
>> --Johnny
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