<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><font color="#ff0000">On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 2:30 PM, Phil Budne <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:phil@ultimate.com" target="_blank">phil@ultimate.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></font><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font color="#ff0000"><span class="">> >Can the IMP software and the H316 simulator talk TCP/IP to an ehernet card?<br>
<br>
</span>If we had TCP-era IMP code, one could, in theory, but as I recall the<br>
structure of the TCP ARPAnet (net 10) address was that one octet was<br>
the IMP number, and another the port on the IMP, which was severly<br>
limited (four host ports?),</font></blockquote><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font color="#0000ff">Exactly... up to 4 hosts per IMP on the original Honeywell - each supporting a single 1822 interface, which might or might not be local using a 'very-distance-host' interface - i.e. was not in the same room as the IMP.</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font color="#0000ff">Berkeley's original connection was via the LBL IMP using the VDH</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0.9);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Noel Chiappa</span> might remember more of the TAC details, I personally never saw one - although I did use one or two on occaison. IIRC they could handle ??32?? lines maybe, but there were for terminals (and a lot of modems). The whole reason for building the ARPAnet was to allow sharing of expensive mainframes (of course what it did was actually cause people to want more systems). But until the TAC's show up, 'remote sharing' was less than might have been hoped by the funding masters ;-) </font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font color="#0000ff">More details of all this is can be found in <span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Katie Hafner's 'Where<span> </span></span><span class="gmail-il" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Wizards</span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span> </span></span><span class="gmail-il" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Stay</span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span> </span></span><span class="gmail-il" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Up</span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span> </span></span><span class="gmail-il" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Late</span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">'</span> </font></div><font color="#ff0000"><br></font></div><div><font color="#ff0000"><br></font></div><div><font color="#ff0000"> </font></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font color="#ff0000"> and if that limitation was "well known"<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>you might only be able to attach to four hosts over Ethernet.<br></font></blockquote><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#0000ff">Mumble... it was certain 'well known' the question is was it screwed down into SW. Which is likely.</font></div><font color="#ff0000"><br></font></div><div><font color="#ff0000"> </font></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<font color="#ff0000"><br>
Most often, the system attached to the IMP acted as a router, and<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>connected to the local internet.<br></font></blockquote><div><font color="#0000ff"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">Actually that's quite right if my memory serves me.</div> </font></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">The <span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">original</span> idea of the original (Honeywell) IMP was to keep the host from having to do any protocol work. The host SW was left as an exercise for the user by BBN [again see Katie's book - the details are fascinating]. Until TCP was thought about (which was before IP BTW); the host was supposed to be very dumb and the IMP terminates the network and do all the 'hard work.' I think BBN looked at the 1822 as a way to add a peripheral to the host in the key of a terminal more than anything else.</div></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">In fact the host SW, was not even started until pretty near the time that the first IMP was delivered. There was not specs for it for a long time. That said, as</div></font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> time went by and the host SW got more and more sophisticated and<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> eventually</div> the need for TCP arose, the IMP was a <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">protocol terminator/</div>converter more than a router. With the advent of IP and then running the <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">network </div>protocol in the host itself (TCP), BBN created the C30 IMP (20 bit microcoded UNIX system, they later sold as a UNIX system called the C70). That would be more like a router.</span></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"><font color="#0000ff" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I'm drawing on very old memories here... you'd need to ask some one like Al Nemeth who managed the project at BBN, but I don't think the C30's ever ran the NCP code. </font></font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font color="#0000ff">In UCB's case when we finally got our own IMP (82/83ish I think) it was a C30 and that was all post NCP turn off date. I'm also not sure of the 4 hosts 1822 limit was removed. I don't remember anyone having used 1822 with them, but I'm fairly sure their had to be because Ethernet interfaces did not yet exist for many of the original ARPAnet hosts. My memory is that the C30's supported native ethernet, so they really did become a router and people stopped needing to use an 1822 with them.</font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font color="#0000ff">Clem</font></div></div></div></div></div><div hspace="streak-pt-mark" style="max-height:1px"><img alt="" style="width:0px;max-height:0px;overflow:hidden" src="https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=aY2xlbWNAY2NjLmNvbQ%3D%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=75ebcf83-793d-467e-b0bc-d2896ebcf703"><font color="#ffffff" size="1">ᐧ</font></div>