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On 26-Jan-18 11:37, Paul Koning wrote:<br>
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<pre wrap="">On Jan 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Clem Cole <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:clemc@ccc.com"><clemc@ccc.com></a> wrote:
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RSTS Basic is a late entry, the language support for it, originally came from the compiler group which again was originally PDP-10 based (also remember the PDP-11 BLISS compiler needed a 10 to run it).
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Are you talking about BASIC-PLUS-2? RSTS BASIC-PLUS dates from 1970, and was written under contract for DEC by Evans, Griffiths & Hart ("EGH"). It is essentially a P-code compiler, to use terminology that didn't appear until later; it doesn't generate any machine code. And as far as I know, it is not based on any BASIC implementation for any other system.
As for BLISS, there's BLISS-16 and BLISS-11. One came from Carnegie-Mellon; the other was built at DEC. Both are cross-compilers, but I don't remember which platform. PDP-10 for both? 10 for one and VAX for the other?
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<p>I wrote a fair bit of BLISS at various stages of its evolution.
My recollection is:<br>
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<p>BLISS-10 & BLISS-11 came from Wulf & Co at CMU. BLISS-10
is self-hosted.<br>
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<p>BLISS-11 is an evolution of BLISS-10. There was a PDP10-hosted
version of BLISS-11. I don't think it was ported to VAX.</p>
<p>BLISS-36,-16,-32,-32E,-64E, MIPS, INTEL, IA64, are DEC's common
BLISS - evolved (and greatly extended) from BLISS-11, but not
(really) source-compatible for non-trivial programs. "common"
means that (with carefully defined exceptions that can be
conditionally compiled), the same language is accepted by all, and
it's possible to write portable programs. Including common BLISS
itself. RMS-10/20 is another non-trivial example - same sources
as VAX/RMS. There are a number of targets and host environment
combinations that are supported.<br>
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<p>BLISS-16 is hosted on both PDP-10 and VAX, producing PDP-11
object code. I used both. I didn't encounter an Alpha-hosted
version - but it should have compiled & run there, so it
probably existed. Or was VESTed. <br>
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<p>Most software written in BLISS-10 & -11 was converted to
common BLISS.</p>
<p>There was an attempt at self-hosting BLISS-16, but it failed -
technically, it ran, but there really wasn't enough address space
to make it usable. Cross-compiling wasn't popular (networks were
crude), so BLISS-16 was not as widely adopted.<br>
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<p>For a more complete history, see <a
href="https://www.cs.tufts.edu/%7Enr/cs257/archive/ronald-brender/bliss.pdf">https://www.cs.tufts.edu/~nr/cs257/archive/ronald-brender/bliss.pdf</a></p>
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paul
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