[Simh] Disk info request

Johnny Billquist bqt at softjar.se
Wed Mar 9 03:53:17 EST 2016


Do VMS and ODS-2 really try to figure out a geometry per disk for MSCP 
disks???
That just seems extremely stupid. Yes, MSCP disks have spare blocks, 
that are not reported in the disk size. However, MSCP in general also do 
not have a meaningful geometry. The number of blocks can vary depending 
on the track, and with replacement blocks, the physical location of any 
block can in fact be almost anywhere on the disk.

I would have expected MSCP disks to just have some fake geometry that 
was the same for all disks. After all, you do not address blocks on MSCP 
with a cylinder/head/track/block kind of addressing. It's just a block 
number.

	Johnny

On 2016-03-09 02:47, Timothe Litt wrote:
> In the process of debugging the ODS2 utility, it became clear that the
> disk geometry really does matter.
> And it's not available in simulator images -- or even for physical
> devices -- at runtime.
>
> Below is a list of all the disks that have been used with FILES-11
> (ODS2) for which I have reliable (I think) data.
> The list has blank spots for a lot of disks that I know exist, but for
> which I don't have reliable data.
>
> What matters are the sector size (usually 512), sectors/track, tracks
> (surfaces)/cylinder, and number of
> cylinders.  The other columns are computed (and informational).
>
> I have two requests:
>
> 1) If you see any errors, please let me know.  Gathering this was a
> manual process.
> 2) If you have data for other disks **USED FOR FILES-11 ODS-2**, please
> let me know.
>      I know there were 3rd-party disks that weren't exact clones of the
> DEC disks....
>
> FYI: (and to avoid the inevitable questions)
>   * I do know about the pdp-10 format for Massbus disks shared with the
> front end. ODS-1.
>   * Delta is the distance between HOM blocks for the given geometry
>   * Capacity is in bytes.
>    * For this exercise, I need the geometry as presented to the OS, not
> the internal organization
>      E.g. some DSA disks have spare sectors, but (as far as I know),
> these aren't accounted for
>      when a volume is initialized.  If you have a physical disk (or image
> of one), it's possible
>      to resolve ambiguities by dumping block 1.  (e.g. on VMS,
>      dump /block=(start=1,count=1) dka100:)
>   * Most "modern" OSs lie about geometry - to fit into small fields in
> the BIOS reports, or
>      because it just doesn't matter to them.  There's no
> reliable/portable way to "just ask the
>      host OS" - or even the hardware.
>
> Thanks.
>
>   Name     SecSiz Sec/Tk Tk/Cy Cyls   Capacity       LBNs               Delta
>   RK05       512     12     2   203    2494464       4872      2.379 MB    37
>   RK06       512     22     3   411   13888512      27126     13.245 MB    89
>   RK07       512     22     3   815   27540480      53790     26.265 MB    89
>   RK11       512     12     2   203    2494464       4872      2.379 MB    37
>   RL01       512     40     2   256   10485760      20480     10.000 MB   121
>   RL02       512     40     2   512   20971520      40960     20.000 MB   121
>   RM02       512     32     5   823   67420160     131680     64.297 MB   193
>   RM03       512     32     5   823   67420160     131680     64.297 MB   193
>   RP04       512     22    19   411   87960576     171798     83.886 MB   441
>   RP05       512     22    19   411   87960576     171798     83.886 MB   441
>   RM80       512     31    14   559  124214272     242606    118.460 MB   466
>   RP06       512     22    19   815  174423040     340670    166.343 MB   441
>   RM05       512     32    19   823  256196608     500384    244.328 MB   641
>   RP07       512     50    32   630  516096000    1008000    492.188 MB  1651
>   RX50       512     10     1    80     409600        800      0.391 MB    11
>   RX33       512     15     2    80    1228800       2400      1.172 MB    46
> *RD50     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
>   RD51       512     18     4   306   11280384      22032     10.758 MB    91
>   RD31       512     17     4   615   21411840      41820     20.420 MB    86
>   RD52       512     17     8   512   35651584      69632     34.000 MB   154
>   RD53       512     17     7  1024   62390272     121856     59.500 MB   137
>   RD54       512     17    15  1225  159936000     312375    152.527 MB   273
>   RA82       512     57    15  1423  622932480    1216665    594.075 MB   913
>   RA72       512     51    20  1921 1003223040    1959420    956.748 MB  1072
> *RA80     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RA81     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
>   RA82       512     57    15  1435  628185600    1226925    599.084 MB   913
>   RA90       512     69    13  2649 1216590336    2376153   1160.231 MB   967
>   RA92       512     73    13  3099 1505766912    2940951   1436.011 MB  1023
>   RRD40      512    128     1 10400  681574400    1331200    650.000 MB   129
>   RRD50      512    128     1 10400  681574400    1331200    650.000 MB   129
>   RX01       128     26     1    77     256256        500      0.244 MB     7
>   RX02       256     26     1    77     512512       1001      0.489 MB    14
> *RX23-SD  ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RX23-DD  ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
>   RX33-SD    512     10     1    80     409600        800      0.391 MB    11
> *RX33-DD  ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
>   RX50       512     10     1    80     409600        800      0.391 MB    11
> *RC25     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RF30     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RF31     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RF35     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RF36     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RF71     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RF72     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RF73     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RF74     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ22     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ23     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ24     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ25     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ26     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ27     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ28     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ29     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ31     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ33     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ35     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ55     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ56     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ57     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ58     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ59     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ72     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ73     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
> *RZ74     ----- ------ ----- ----- ---------- ---------- ----------
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                   ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se             ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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