[Simh] KS10 IMP documentation

Mon Feb 29 17:26:33 EST 2016

  Yes, at least some versions of the original DDP516/H316 IMP code have been recovered; it is possible to run it on the simh H316 simulator, and I am at least partially to blame for that.  See

http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/pipermail/simh/2013-November/007672.html

  Of course, this just gets you a network of IMPs.   To do something useful you need a host that emulates the RFC1822 interface and talks to one of the IMPs.   Not too long ago Charles Anthony did that for the DPS8 and Multics, and I believe he actually got that working.  That was the first case of an actual host for the simulated IMP network.  It’d be fun to have another one, and if you have enough details about how the original hardware worked it should be possible to add the AN22/RFC1822 interface to the KS10 emulation.

  But, be aware that all the IMP software we have is from the early 70s and predates TCP.  I don’t know if there was ever any OS for the KS10 that supported NCP networking, but if there was then it’s possible you could get something running.

  Good luck!

Bob Armstrong

From: Simh [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Mark Pizzolato
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 1:33 PM
To: SPC; Clem Cole
Cc: SIMH
Subject: Re: [Simh] KS10 IMP documentation

Bob Armstrong did the work and it was merged into the master branch in the https://github.com/simh/simh repo.

From: Simh [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of SPC
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 1:21 PM
To: Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com>
Cc: SIMH <simh at trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: [Simh] KS10 IMP documentation

Hum... not sure about this, but someone talked here some years ago about a modification of  the SIMH Honeywell simulator to convert it in one IMP. I assume that he had some kind of BBN IMP code. 

I'm not sure if this project would be limited to tray to simulate the original ARPANET token ring limited to the IMPs or there was some other goals to reach. An example: modify another simulator adding to it a simulation of one device like this one (AN22) making it to talk with the IMP. 

As I said this was a post from years ago. Perhaps was Bob Armstrong who talked about it but I'm not sure at all.

Kind Regards.

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2016-02-29 21:48 GMT+01:00 Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com>:

Tim I'm going to guess that the AN22 implements the PDP-10 side of the BBN 1822 IMP interface. Is that a correct belief?

Bit Savers has the BBN 1822 document from 1976 (the original I think was '72 - I had a xerox of that one).  I think I saw it about a week ago at home, so I'm nearly 100% sure I have very clean copy of the actual published in it's Yellow Cover from BBN, the later edition - which would have been the one when the IP transition was taking place or at least planned (i.e. post Arpanet - when IP was being created).  If so, I'll look into getting it scanned and send an update to Al.   I'm pretty sure there was changes when BBN implemented their own mini for the IMP (the C30 - which later got re-microcoded to be  general purpose computer - the C70 "C Machine").

I do not remember how CMU interfaced the 10's and C.mmp to their (Honeywell) IMP.  I suspect it was either something like the AN22 or be a Jim "Tetter Toy" that he cooked up (I never knew).   However, IIRC @ UCB Ingres 11/70s a DR-11B with a little logic  (??Bob Kriddle hack maybe?? - at one time I had my hand in it).  That was the UCB Arpanet interface for many, many years --- until CSRG finally got a C30 IMP in Evans in the early 1980s.   Ing70 had a "very long host" interface from a Honeywell IMP that was "up the hill" at LBL.    Again, IIRC the C30 could do Ethernet to the Vaxen.   Or maybe it was connected to the Ethernet via a C70 which was connected the C30 (I've forgotten). But until the C30 showed up, the UCB Arpanet/Internet connection was fairly shallow; unlike CMU, MIT or Stanford.

Clem

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 12:33 PM, Timothe Litt <litt at ieee.org> wrote:

On 29-Feb-16 12:34, b4 at gewt.net wrote:

Hello,

Can anyone point me at IMP documentation for the KS10? I'm only seeing AN10 maintenance printsets up on Bitsavers...I'd love documentation that isn't KLH10's KS10-ITS implementation!

Alternatively, were any of the experimental Ethernet interfaces ever supported in TOPS-10/20 on the KS10? (I don't have access to my SRI-NIC packs due to the VM being down at present)

Alternatively too...the userland ANF-10 bridge could prove useful for this...

Not clear what you want to do.

The KS does have an ARPA interface, the AN22.  I have not tracked down a spec for it.  It is KMC-11 based, not simulated by SimH at present.  The TOPS-20 monitor sources for 4.1 are a resource.  One day I'll get access to my stuff at CHM and will look for a spec.  It's on my list to see if it's worth emulating.

The DEUNA is simulated in SimH.  Neither the released TOPS-10 nor TOPS-20 support it.  There is some TCP code floating around that does.

If you're trying to move files in and out:
  DECnet does work (phase II on TOPS-20, Phase III or IV on TOPS-20), and will talk to VAX/RSX.  You can move files by stopping on or PMR thru) one of them.

  ANF-10 on the KS does work, KS-KS.  It should be possible to build the -11 nodes on the KS & boot them on a SimH -11.  I've been meaning to get around to that, but haven't.  With ANF, besides the peripherals and terminals, you get DCP.

   Networking on the KS is supported on both OSs by the KDP emulator.  The DMR should work, though I think there's a monitor bug in 7.04 where my colleagues changed AC definitions and didn't update the DMR driver.  Also on my list.

    You can also move files in and out with Kermit (serial lines), cards, magtape, printer.

I don't know what you mean by 'anf-10 userland bridge'.  Of course, FAL on the -10 listens to both DECnet and ANF.

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