[Simh] Booting the vax750 simulator.
Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm
Mark at infocomm.com
Tue Jul 7 14:32:51 EDT 2015
The suggested “nm –n” is completely useful.
From: Clem Cole [mailto:clemc at ccc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 11:28 AM
To: Henry Bent
Cc: Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm; simh at trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] Booting the vax750 simulator.
Boy the bits in my memory are stale and could be confused, but my memory is that there was a way to wash it though the VMS linker to get such a map. The author the VMS linker sits a few feet from me, I just sent him email asked him if he remembers how we did that. I suspect he will make an appearance in my cube after he reads it asking why I want to know :-)
Clem
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Henry Bent <hbent at oberlin.edu<mailto:hbent at oberlin.edu>> wrote:
I took a quick look at this under Ultrix 4.3, where the same problem occurs. There are Ultrix 4.3 sources, so that makes things somewhat easier. The panic occurs in ubarelse(), which releases uba resources.
Unfortunately, as far as I know, the Ultrix linker does not have a way to produce a link map. You can at least see what the function addresses are by using "nm -n" on the kernel you're running.
-Henry
On 6 July 2015 at 15:41, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com<mailto:Mark at infocomm.com>> wrote:
Hi Mattis,
I’m working with the disk image you provided. I see the failure on the VAX750 simulator.
What is the root password on this disk?
Do you know if any sort of link map is available from this kernel build?
Have you tried earlier versions of Ultrix on the 750 simulator? As I recall, I think I once came across Ultrix sources for some prior versions. It would seem that the VAX750 would be supported pretty much back at the beginning so, if we can reproduce this failure on a version with sources we’d have more to go on.
I initially look at the crash message:
sim> b rq0
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
Ultrixboot - V4.0 Sat Mar 31 04:11:56 EST 1990
Loading (a)vmunix ...
Sizes:
text = 593304
data = 100864
bss = 320516
Starting at 0x2d4d
ULTRIX V4.0 (Rev. 161) System #1: Thu May 20 23:26:51 GMT+0100 1976
real mem = 15728640
avail mem = 12378112
using 384 buffers containing 1572864 bytes of memory
VAX 11/750, hardware level = 0x9c, microcode level = 99
mcr0 (MS750) at address 0xf20000
mba0 at address 0xf28000
0 mba's not configured
mba0 at address 0xf2a000
0 mba's not configured
uba0 at address 0xf30000
uda0 at uba0
uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15
dz0 at uba0 csr 160100 vec 300, ipl 15
machine check 2: non-existant reference error
sumpar = 2
va = 80001a90
errpc = 0
mdr = 0
smr = 0
rdtimo = 0
tbgpar = 0
cacherr = 0
buserr = 140008
mcesr = 0
pc = 80087c61
psl = 4150008
mcsr = 140000
I note that the PC mentioned is: 80087c61.
If I do the following:
sim> BRE 80087c61
sim> SET CPU HISTORY=300
sim> B RQ0
Execution flows up to the indicated address and if I single step from there, the exception is taken.
The instruction which causes the exception is:
BISL2 #60000001,(R0)
And R0 contains:
But the instructions executed prior to the failing instruction seems to be walking through some memory structures, which no real clue yet exists as to what it might be trying. Hence, my request for a link map and also to try and reproduce this with an OS version that has source…
- Mark
From: Simh [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com<mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com>] On Behalf Of Mattis Lind
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 1:42 PM
To: simh at trailing-edge.com<mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: [Simh] Booting the vax750 simulator.
2015-06-21 18:22 GMT+02:00 Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com<mailto:Mark at infocomm.com>>:
Hi there Mattis,
Well, what you’re asking for (running model specific diagnostics) has been out of scope for all of the simh VAX simulators. The scope has been to be able to run operating system and application software that ran on these systems. If you had source code for the diagnostic you’re trying to run maybe some understanding of why it fails on both the real hardware and what might be needed in the simulator to support it would be possible….
Unfortunately I don't have the source for the diagnostic. It is a pain and that was one of the reasons for trying the simulator in the first place. But I certainly understand that it is quite different to simulate it to pass a diagnostic which tries to do all sorts of strange things than running a real operating system.
As for Ultrix 4.0 on the VAX750 simulator, well I haven’t explored the documentation, but it might be possible that by the time Ultrix 4.0 came along, it never got tested on the older hardware. Does this disk image boot using the VAX780 and VAX8600 simulators?
This kernel I built was only microvax II and VAX-11/750 so it won't directly boot on a 11/780 nor a VAX8600. But if I add a line CPU "VAX780" and CPU "VAX8600" it boots on both.
But still no-go on vax750. I even tried to remove some more optional features in the kernel config but no difference. Still boot on vax780, microvax2 and vax8600 simulator though.
Here is the image I tried : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/Datormusuem/VAX11-750/ultrix3.dsk
/Mattis
- Mark
From: Simh [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com<mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com>] On Behalf Of Mattis Lind
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 1:10 AM
To: simh at trailing-edge.com<mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: [Simh] Booting the vax750 simulator.
2015-06-19 16:33 GMT+02:00 Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se<mailto:bqt at softjar.se>>:
I would suggest you start off by creating the system using a simulated uVAX II, as that can boot from tape. Once you have the system running. move the disk over to an emulated 11/750, and continue playing from there.
I did as Johnny recommended and then I got VMS 6.1 working on the vax750 simulator. Getting Ultrix 4.0 to work seems to be harder. I made a kernel config with just the uda and dz drivers. Exactly the same kernel boots just fine in the microvax2 simulator, but it fails on me in the vax750 simulator. Anyone got Ultrix 4.0 working on the vax750 simulator?
Since another of the reasons for using the vax750 simulator is to understand how the diagnostics work (since the Cache/TB fails on the real machine. Either there is areal fault or possibly some kind of incompatibility between the board set I have and the diagnostic).
It would be very useful if they could run in the simulator as well. Anyone succeeded in running the diagnostics in the vax750 simulator?
sim> boot rq0
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
Ultrixboot - V4.0 Sat Mar 31 04:11:56 EST 1990
Loading (a)vmunix ...
Sizes:
text = 664356
data = 113152
bss = 342256
Starting at 0x2b4d
ULTRIX V4.0 (Rev. 161) System #2: Wed May 19 13:29:37 GMT+0100 1976
real mem = 8388608
avail mem = 5818368
using 204 buffers containing 838656 bytes of memory
VAX 11/750, hardware level = 0x9c, microcode level = 99
mcr0 (MS750) at address 0xf20000
mba0 at address 0xf28000
0 mba's not configured
mba0 at address 0xf2a000
0 mba's not configured
uba0 at address 0xf30000
uda0 at uba0
uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15
dz0 at uba0 csr 160100 vec 300, ipl 15
machine check 2: non-existant reference error
sumpar = 2
va = 80001890
errpc = 0
mdr = 0
smr = 0
rdtimo = 0
tbgpar = 0
cacherr = 0
buserr = 140008
mcesr = 0
pc = 800991c1
psl = 4150008
mcsr = 140000
cpu 1 panic: mchk
locks held by cpu 1
print locks held by non-active processes
done
***************************
cpu 1 register dump
sp = 800017d4 ap = 80001850 fp = 80001830
pc = 80084a88 ksp = 7ffffe88 usp = 7fffc800
isp = 80001780 p0pr = 80bd8c00 p0lr = 00000000
p1br = 803d8e00 p1lr = 001fffe4 sbr = 000bde00
slr = 00008d9a pcbb = 00111a00 scbb = 00000600
ipl = 0000001f astlvl = 00000004 sisr = 00000000
iccs = 00000041
interrupt stack:
80001780: 800aa989 800017ac 00000001 8010190c
80001790: 801018d8 80101998 800b44ba 00000080
800017a0: 00000178 00000020 00000000 20000000
800017b0: 80001818 800017d4 8004a0e2 00000003
800017c0: 800b44b5 00000001 800017e4 00000002
800017d0: 00000000 00000000 * 2fff0000 80001850 ap
800017e0: 80001830 fp 80084a88 pc 00000000 r0 0000001f r1
800017f0: 00000001 r2 8000197c r3 00000026 r4 00000000 r5
kernel stack:
7ffffe88: 00000000 2fc00000 7ffffee0 7ffffec4
7ffffe98: 80009bad 00000000 80189f54 00000000
7ffffea8: 00000000 00000000 80189f54 00000003
7ffffeb8: 80189f54 00000014 800edd18 00000000
7ffffec8: 2c000000 7fffff14 7ffffeec 80076967
7ffffed8: 80e0509c 800925d4 00000001 80189f54
7ffffee8: 00000000 00000000 2f800000 7fffff48
7ffffef8: 7fffff30 80092914 00000000 801285d8
7fffff08: 00000000 800bdd48 80e05000 00000003
7fffff18: 800925d4 00001701 80e0509c 00000000
7fffff28: 00000000 80e02400 00000000 28000000
7fffff38: 7fffff6c 7fffff58 80092746 00000006
7fffff48: 00000003 00001701 800e7cc8 00000000
7fffff58: 00000000 20000000 7fffff94 7fffff78
7fffff68: 8003d454 00000001 00001701 800e7cc8
7fffff78: 00000000 2c000000 7fffffb8 7fffff9c
7fffff88: 8003cde3 007ff800 00000006 00000000
7fffff98: 800a8a58 00000000 2c000000 7ffffff8
7fffffa8: 7fffffcc 8003c49d 007ff800 00000006
7fffffb8: 00000000 00000000 00000000 800e9cc0
7fffffc8: 00000000 00000000 2fc00000 00000000
7fffffd8: 00000000 80003042 00000000 00000000
7fffffe8: 00000000 00000000 007ff800 00000000
7ffffff8: 00000001 0000089b
dump area improper
Johnny
On 2015-06-19 16:14, Mattis Lind wrote:
Hello!
I am in the process to revive an VAX-11/750 machine but since I have no
tape (nor install tapes) drive my idea was to create an image which I
could transfer to a SCSI disk and then use a MSCP SCSI controller to
boot the machine.
I thought it would be a good idea to use the SimH vax750 simulator to do
this work. But I encounter problem. Many of these problems are probably
due to the fact I am not very familiar with SimH. Although I think I
read though several documents and studied the source code.
The booting process of the SimH vax750 simulator seems to differ from
the real VAX-11/750. On the real thing when I insert console media and
boot it it will read and I get a BOOT58> prompt. This doesn't happen at
all on the simulator. Instead it seems that it preloads vmb.exe and then
execute it.
The images I have been using was found on
http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html
All tests below is run using SimH from github compiled on MACOS.
Although I have also tested to compile it on Linux with the same result.
This is what happen on the simulator:
sim> boot td0
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
Please remove the volume "CONSOLE" from the console device.
Insert the first standalone system volume and enter "YES" when ready: YES
Resuming load operation on volume "CONSOLE", please stand by . . .
1 BRK AT 00001C50
00001C50/CF00FB01
It seems some kind of command line is active since I get this output
when I press some random keys:
EH?
EEE
00000EEE /8AAF9552
--------
Booting a standalone backup works OK if I don't follow the instructions
to replace the console media the first time.
sim> attach td0 /Users/mattis_lind/Downloads/BE-CT97A-BE.TAP
TD: writing buffer to file
TD: buffering file in memory
sim> boot td0
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
Please remove the volume "SYSTEM_1" from the console device.
Insert the first standalone system volume and enter "YES" when ready: YES
Resuming load operation on volume "SYSTEM_1", please stand by . . .
Please remove the volume "SYSTEM_1" from the console device.
Insert the next standalone system volume and enter "YES" when ready:
Simulation stopped, PC: 000083D8 (MFPR #20,R0)
sim> attach td0 /Users/mattis_lind/Downloads/BE-CT98A-BE.TAP
TD: writing buffer to file
TD: buffering file in memory
sim> cont
YES
Resuming load operation on volume "SYSTEM_2", please stand by . . .
VAX/VMS Version V4.0 15-SEP-1984 22:29
Please remove the volume "SYSTEM_2" from the console device.
Insert the standalone application volume and enter "YES" when ready:
Simulation stopped, PC: 80008B1F (BRB 80008B1F)
sim> attach td0 /Users/mattis_lind/Downloads/BE-CT99A-BE.TAP
TD: writing buffer to file
TD: buffering file in memory
sim> cont
YES
Resuming load operation on volume "BACKUP", please stand by . . .
%BACKUP-I-IDENT, Stand-alone BACKUP V4.0; the date is 17-JUN-1984
22:40:44.48
$
---------
Then trying to run various diagnostics images that are supposed to be
standalone and do read on the real thing but gives the following result:
sim> attach td0 /Users/mattis_lind/Downloads/BE-S198Q-DE.TAP
TD: writing buffer to file
TD: buffering file in memory
sim> boot td0
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
Please remove the volume "VMS Exchange" from the console device.
Insert the first standalone system volume and enter "YES" when ready: YES
Resuming load operation on volume "VMS Exchange", please stand by . . .
ECKAL -- VAX 11/750 Cache/TB Diagnostic
HALT instruction, PC: 00002608 (MTPR #F,#26)
sim> attach td0 /Users/mattis_lind/Downloads/BE-S199T-DE.TAP
TD: writing buffer to file
TD: buffering file in memory
sim> boot td0
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
Please remove the volume "VMS Exchange" from the console device.
Insert the first standalone system volume and enter "YES" when ready: YES
Resuming load operation on volume "VMS Exchange", please stand by . . .
%BOOT-F-Unable to locate BOOT file
HALT instruction, PC: 000004C7 (BLBS 549,4C6)
sim> attach td0 /Users/mattis_lind/Downloads/BE-S200I-DE.TAP
TD: writing buffer to file
TD: buffering file in memory
sim> boot td0
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
Please remove the volume "" from the console device.
Insert the first standalone system volume and enter "YES" when ready: YES
Resuming load operation on volume "", please stand by . . .
%BOOT-F-Unable to locate BOOT file
HALT instruction, PC: 000004C7 (BLBS 549,4C6)
sim>
As you can see the Cache/TB diagnostic do read in and seem to execute
but fails. The others doesn't even seems to boot correctly. When tested
on the real hardware all these start (although the Cache/TB fail, alas
not at the same location)
Maybe the best idea is to dump out the real BOOT PROMs from the actual
machine an load those into memory and start those? I haven't been able
to test this since the machine 100 km away.
I did successfully boot a Ultrix-4.0 tap file from bitsavers in the vax
andra microvax2 simulator. But how can I do that on the vax750
simulator? Doing "boot tq0" give "Command not allowed". Although help
file indicate it is a valid command!?
Any help appreciated!
/Mattis
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--
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|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se<mailto:bqt at softjar.se> || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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