From captainkirk359 at gmail.com Tue Jul 1 02:39:48 2014 From: captainkirk359 at gmail.com (Christian Gauger-Cosgrove) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 02:39:48 -0400 Subject: [Simh] 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 Message-ID: For reasons of "I had nothing better to do" and "Why not?" I've decided to try and bring up Quasijarus on the 11/730 simulator. And I am having absolutely no luck. I cannot boot the TS11 tape drive, trying to do so gives one "Command not allowed" attempting to boot the first TU81 (TQ0) starts loading boot code from VMB.EXE, and then halts, hitting continue I get "%BOOT-F-NOFAC, Boot driver requests dynamic storage. Allocation routines not present" which loops infinitely. I can boot the console TU58 ("boot td"), but while it does actually do something, but it tries to load a boot file off of the console tape, I've tried with both Brad Parker's console TU58, and the TU58 that comes with the Quasijarus distribution. Trying to "boot CPU" as in the microVAX 3900 is "Command not allowed". I've even tried the VAX 8200 console RL02 that comes with Quasijarus, it halts with a "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate BOOT fil" (unless set to conhalt whereupon it loops trying to boot the RL and failing). Keying in the TS11 bootstrap by hand results in the sim giving a "Reboot request failed, PC: 0000023E (HALT)". So, at present, I'm stuck. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get this to work. I know that Quasijarus will work on the 11/730, but I cannot get to the point of running the standalone format or copy programs on the 730. Any possible advice might be helpful. As a postscript, I have also tried to run the install on the VAX780 simulator, and the results are... at best very strange, at worst non-functional. For example: "fload copy" followed by "run 200" (to get the standalone copy program off of the console floppy that comes with Quasijarus) does load the standalone copy program. However, all inputs result in: Known devices are:  `?P (That is, after the "Known devices are:" line is some spaces random-looking ASCII control character, spaces, and more random looking ASCII.) The same happens when attempting to run the standalone boot off the console floppy. However, it only allows one to specify the device if and only if you have tried to run the standalone copy earlier, and then attempted to enter a device into copy, otherwise it always starts up with: Boot : /vmunix With no ability to break into it and change it. Kind regards, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove -- Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove STCKON08DS0 Contact information available upon request. From b4 at gewt.net Tue Jul 1 05:56:16 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 05:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2014, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > The same happens when attempting to run the standalone boot off the > console floppy. However, it only allows one to specify the device if > and only if you have tried to run the standalone copy earlier, and > then attempted to enter a device into copy, otherwise it always starts > up with: > Boot > : /vmunix > With no ability to break into it and change it. > I _think_ something involving r5 would allow you to override that. How to deposit a 1 in to r5 I can't tell you off-band, though. > > Kind regards, > Christian Gauger-Cosgrove > > -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From b4 at gewt.net Tue Jul 1 06:09:17 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 06:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2014, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > > I've even tried the VAX 8200 console RL02 that comes with Quasijarus, > it halts with a "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate BOOT fil" (unless set to > conhalt whereupon it loops trying to boot the RL and failing). > Attach it to CS instead. It's the "console RL" after all. sim> boot cs Loading boot code from vmb.exe Please remove the volume "" from the console device. > > So, at present, I'm stuck. I cannot for the life of me figure out how > to get this to work. I know that Quasijarus will work on the 11/730, > but I cannot get to the point of running the standalone format or copy > programs on the 730. > The VAX-11/780's FLOAD command is very helpful for stuff like this...wish the console RL for the 8600 implemented the same...LS for the console device would help, too. > > Kind regards, > Christian Gauger-Cosgrove > > -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From b4 at gewt.net Tue Jul 1 07:33:54 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 07:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote: Progress! losim> fload copy 0 sim> run 2 From: tms(0,0,1) To: ra(0,0,0) ra0: unlabeled Copy completed: 308 records copied Reboot request failed, PC: 0006B372 (HALT) sim> b rq You need to SET CPU CONHALT. The code seems to hijack some console routines ad trap HALT or something. Still working on getting BOOT to let me specify the boot device for the kernel...got it to work before. -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From b4 at gewt.net Tue Jul 1 07:47:56 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 07:47:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote: > On Tue, 1 Jul 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > Progress! > Here's a transcript of success on the 780: VAX 11/780 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: f961a98b sim> set rq dis sim> set rl dis sim> set hk dis sim> at cs floppy CS: buffering file in memory sim> at tq 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0c.tap sim> at rp0 quasijarus.rp06 sim> set cpu conhalt sim> fload copy 0 sim> run 2 From: tms(0,0,1) To: hp(0,0) Copy completed: 308 records copied Reboot request failed, PC: 00000001 (HALT) sim> reset sim> fload boot 0 sim> dep r10 0 sim> dep r10 0 sim> dep r10 1 sim> dep r11 0 sim> run 2 Boot : hp(0,0)/vmunix 326312+104440+130352 start 0x23b8 [...] tu0 at ht0 slave 0 tu1 at ht0 slave 1 root device? hp0a WARNING: clock gained 136 days -- CHECK AND RESET THE DATE! Remember the SET TTI 7b and SET TTO 7b! -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From Mark at infocomm.com Tue Jul 1 14:41:11 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 11:41:11 -0700 Subject: [Simh] 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A5E@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Jun 30, 2014 11:58 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > On Tue, 1 Jul 2014, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > > > The same happens when attempting to run the standalone boot off the > > console floppy. However, it only allows one to specify the device if > > and only if you have tried to run the standalone copy earlier, and > > then attempted to enter a device into copy, otherwise it always starts > > up with: > > Boot > > : /vmunix > > With no ability to break into it and change it. > > > > I _think_ something involving r5 would allow you to override that. How to > deposit a 1 in to r5 I can't tell you off-band, though. When necessary to change the R5 value, is is done on the simh 730, 750, 780 and 8600 boot commands with: sim> boot /r5:hexval - Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From esmithmail at gmail.com Tue Jul 1 16:22:00 2014 From: esmithmail at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 15:22:00 -0500 Subject: [Simh] Booting a real VAX from an emulated one Message-ID: <7798475819597802938@unknownmsgid> I apologize in advance .. I may well be posting this in the wrong forum. If so, if someone would be so kind as to redirect me offline I would appreciate it. I have a uVAX 3900 I rescued about 10 years ago. It was headed for a dumpster. It has two 300 meg drives and 16M of RAM, one non-functional tape drive, and a qbus card I have a 10 meg network adapter plugged into. It had VMS v 5.something on it I believe at the time. Over the years I (inadvertently) mangled that installation trying to learn VMS and ended up putting an instance of OpenBSD on it. I did this by running mopd on another unix box and booting the VAX over the network. I would like to install VMS on it again, but not sure how to get it there. The tape drive doesn't pull tape anymore. I'm thinking you VMS experts know a way I can use my SIMH VAX VMS emulation to boot the real VAX from? I'm thinking it is possible to boot VMS this way, and/or do a VMS installation this way, correct? Again, I realize this isn't a purely SIMH post, so if more appropriate to contact me offline, please do. Any direct help or just pointers to an online resource would be much appreciated. Thanks! Eric KD5UWL From oboguev at yahoo.com Tue Jul 1 17:44:56 2014 From: oboguev at yahoo.com (Sergey Oboguev) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 14:44:56 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Booting a real VAX from an emulated one In-Reply-To: <7798475819597802938@unknownmsgid> References: <7798475819597802938@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <1404251096.40397.YahooMailNeo@web184302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Set up your virtual node as a VAXcluster master node with self-sufficient quorum and as MOP server with NCP. Boot physical uVAX 3900 via Ethernet as a diskless satellite cluster node(>>> B XQ). Then image the local drive with BACKUP. ________________________________ From: Eric Smith To: "simh at trailing-edge.com" Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 1:22 PM Subject: [Simh] Booting a real VAX from an emulated one I apologize in advance .. I may well be posting this in the wrong forum.? If so, if someone would be so kind as to redirect me offline I would appreciate it. I have a uVAX 3900 I rescued about 10 years ago.? It was headed for a dumpster.? It has two 300 meg drives and 16M of RAM, one non-functional tape drive, and a qbus card I have a 10 meg network adapter plugged into. It had VMS v 5.something on it I believe at the time.? Over the years I (inadvertently) mangled that installation trying to learn VMS and ended up putting an instance of OpenBSD on it.? I did this by running mopd on another unix box and booting the VAX over the network. I would like to install VMS on it again, but not sure how to get it there.? The tape drive doesn't pull tape anymore. I'm thinking you VMS experts know a way I can use my SIMH VAX VMS emulation to boot the real VAX from? I'm thinking it is possible to boot VMS this way, and/or do a VMS installation this way, correct? Again, I realize this isn't a purely SIMH post, so if more appropriate to contact me offline, please do.? Any direct help or just pointers to an online resource would be much appreciated. Thanks! Eric KD5UWL _______________________________________________ Simh mailing list Simh at trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com Tue Jul 1 18:01:47 2014 From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Robert Jarratt) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 23:01:47 +0100 Subject: [Simh] Booting a real VAX from an emulated one In-Reply-To: <7798475819597802938@unknownmsgid> References: <7798475819597802938@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <0c0f01cf9578$0e3c4a00$2ab4de00$@ntlworld.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing- > edge.com] On Behalf Of Eric Smith > Sent: 01 July 2014 21:22 > To: simh at trailing-edge.com > Subject: [Simh] Booting a real VAX from an emulated one > > I apologize in advance .. I may well be posting this in the wrong forum. If so, if > someone would be so kind as to redirect me offline I would appreciate it. > > I have a uVAX 3900 I rescued about 10 years ago. It was headed for a > dumpster. It has two 300 meg drives and 16M of RAM, one non-functional tape > drive, and a qbus card I have a 10 meg network adapter plugged into. > > It had VMS v 5.something on it I believe at the time. Over the years I > (inadvertently) mangled that installation trying to learn VMS and ended up > putting an instance of OpenBSD on it. I did this by running mopd on another > unix box and booting the VAX over the network. > > I would like to install VMS on it again, but not sure how to get it there. The > tape drive doesn't pull tape anymore. > > I'm thinking you VMS experts know a way I can use my SIMH VAX VMS > emulation to boot the real VAX from? I'm thinking it is possible to boot VMS this > way, and/or do a VMS installation this way, correct? > > Again, I realize this isn't a purely SIMH post, so if more appropriate to contact > me offline, please do. Any direct help or just pointers to an online resource > would be much appreciated. > > Thanks! > Eric KD5UWL > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh I do this regularly. Don't have a lot of time at the moment to explain, but the basic thing to do is create a cluster on SIMH, then add your real machine as a satellite (you need to know it's MAC address). Hope that gives you some pointers. Regards Rob From esmithmail at gmail.com Tue Jul 1 20:40:45 2014 From: esmithmail at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 19:40:45 -0500 Subject: [Simh] Booting a real VAX from an emulated one In-Reply-To: <1404251096.40397.YahooMailNeo@web184302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <7798475819597802938@unknownmsgid> <1404251096.40397.YahooMailNeo@web184302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7156697331252147161@unknownmsgid> Thank you to everyone who replied to me both on the reflector and directly. This is all very helpful - thank you very much. Eric KD5UWL From captainkirk359 at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 08:38:30 2014 From: captainkirk359 at gmail.com (Christian Gauger-Cosgrove) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 08:38:30 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A5E@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: Bah, I just noticed shortly after sending the message that it was only pointing at Mark and Cory not the list reflector. That has been rectified none the less. Apologies, and have a great day. Regards, Christian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove Date: 2 July 2014 08:36 Subject: Re: [Simh] 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 To: Mark Pizzolato , b4 at gewt.net Many thanks to Cory for figuring out the magic needed to get the Quasijarus standalone boot to work on the 780. It makes sense now that I look at it. Although I'm having some difficulty getting past the initial boot-label-disk-and-restore-root phase. Are there any copies of the VAX-11/780 console diskette out there (the original DEC one)? Labelling the RP07 I installed to with the hpboot / boothp bootblock(s) doesn't result in a bootable disk (BOOT RP0 doesn't work), so I'd like to try it the way the Quasijarus manual says it should be done (create a modified console floppy that boots the RP07 disk). In other news, I have had some assistance getting Quasijarus up and running on the 11/730 --- which is where my end goal is in this endeavour. If one extracts the standalone boot and copy from the srcsys.tar archive they can be loaded into the 730's memory via LOAD. (At location 0, of course, and then starting the sim from 2.) But I have run into some difficulty with the RB730 simulation. There might be a bug in it, I am uncertain, but on the initial boot of the system it gets stuck in an infinite loop of "idc0: lost interrupt". I've packaged up a copy of my simulator config, as well as the relevant Quasijarus files: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69943308/Quasijarus-730beta.zip (12.7MB) To copy from the tape on the 11/730: sim>load copy 0 sim>run 2 copy ts(0,1) To: rb(0,1) Copy completed: 308 records copied Exception in interrupt or exception, PC: D4500000 sim> And to boot the freshly copied R80: sim> reset sim> d r10 0 sim> d r10 0 sim> d r10 1 sim> d r11 0 sim> load boot 0 sim> run 2 Boot : rb(0,1)/vmunix 326312+104440+130352 start 0x23b8 4.3 BSD Quasijarus UNIX #3: Sat Feb 14 20:31:03 PST 2004 root at luthien.Harhan.ORG:/nbsd/usr/src/sys/GENERIC real mem = 5242880 SYSPTSIZE limits number of buffers to 134 avail mem = 4145152 using 134 buffers containing 366592 bytes of memory VAX 11/730, ucode rev 123 mcr0 at tr0 uba0 at tr3 idc0 at uba0 csr 175606 vec 250, ipl 15 rb0 at idc0 slave 0 rb1 at idc0 slave 1 zs0 at uba0 csr 172520 vec 224, ipl 15 ts0 at zs0 slave 0 dz0 at uba0 csr 160100 vec 300, ipl 15 dz1 at uba0 csr 160110 vec 310, ipl 15 lp0 at uba0 csr 177514 vec 200, ipl 14 root device? rb0* <--- Enter "rb0*" here. idc0: lost interrupt <--- This error repeats infinitely. So, I'm not quite sure what's wrong with the RB730, but at least one is able to partially get QUasijarus up and running on the 11/730. Kind regards, Christian -- Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove STCKON08DS0 Contact information available upon request. -- Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove STCKON08DS0 Contact information available upon request. From b4 at gewt.net Wed Jul 2 08:44:52 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 08:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] Fwd: 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A5E@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jul 2014, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > Bah, I just noticed shortly after sending the message that it was only > pointing at Mark and Cory not the list reflector. That has been > rectified none the less. > Whoops. ;) [snipping] > Many thanks to Cory for figuring out the magic needed to get the > Quasijarus standalone boot to work on the 780. It makes sense now that > I look at it. Although I'm having some difficulty getting past the > initial boot-label-disk-and-restore-root phase. Are there any copies > of the VAX-11/780 console diskette out there (the original DEC one)? > Labelling the RP07 I installed to with the hpboot / boothp > bootblock(s) doesn't result in a bootable disk (BOOT RP0 doesn't > work), so I'd like to try it the way the Quasijarus manual says it > should be done (create a modified console floppy that boots the RP07 > disk). > I don't have any images of the 11/780 console floppy...but I DO have a VMS 3.x console floppy. I think diag floppies are up on ftp dot trailing-edge, too. I DO however have images of the 11/750 diag floppies. > > In other news, I have had some assistance getting Quasijarus up and > running on the 11/730 --- which is where my end goal is in this > endeavour. If one extracts the standalone boot and copy from the > srcsys.tar archive they can be loaded into the 730's memory via LOAD. > (At location 0, of course, and then starting the sim from 2.) But I > have run into some difficulty with the RB730 simulation. There might > be a bug in it, I am uncertain, but on the initial boot of the system > it gets stuck in an infinite loop of "idc0: lost interrupt". > Try disabling all other units for the controller, and all other unused controllers. > > I've packaged up a copy of my simulator config, as well as the > relevant Quasijarus files: > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69943308/Quasijarus-730beta.zip > (12.7MB) > Downloading now. > ts0 at zs0 slave 0 > dz0 at uba0 csr 160100 vec 300, ipl 15 > dz1 at uba0 csr 160110 vec 310, ipl 15 > lp0 at uba0 csr 177514 vec 200, ipl 14 > root device? rb0* <--- Enter "rb0*" here. > idc0: lost interrupt <--- This error repeats infinitely. > The only person I know with an 11/730 has a currently non-functional one...or it lacks a drive. One of the two...forget which so I can't confirm if it's a SIMH or 4.3 bug. > > So, I'm not quite sure what's wrong with the RB730, but at least one > is able to partially get QUasijarus up and running on the 11/730. > I'll go fiddle with it and respond with my findings. > Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove > STCKON08DS0 > Contact information available upon request. > > > -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 09:57:01 2014 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 09:57:01 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A5E@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Cory Smelosky wrote: >> root device? rb0* <--- Enter "rb0*" here. >> idc0: lost interrupt <--- This error repeats infinitely. > > The only person I know with an 11/730 has a currently non-functional > one...or it lacks a drive. I have an 11/730 but it hasn't been fired up in over 10 years. It's in storage and I wouldn't be able to do anything with it until after summer is over. Looking at this, however, I am reminded of chasing down a bug with SIMH over 15 years ago with the RP03 and 2BSD. It had to do with the interrupt probe routine that runs as the OS is first booting wanting to force an interrupt of each device controller, but rp.c not properly emulating the (poorly-documented) behavior of the real hardware when a read-only register was written to. Perhaps this is something similar? > Boot >: rb(0,1)/vmunix > 326312+104440+130352 start 0x23b8 . . . > idc0 at uba0 csr 175606 vec 250, ipl 15 > rb0 at idc0 slave 0 . . . > root device? rb0* <--- Enter "rb0*" here. > idc0: lost interrupt <--- This error repeats infinitely. What's there up to the "lost interrupt" looks quite reasonable. I haven't grabbed the 4.3 sources to look at its driver, but I'd be interested in knowing what code is firing that emits that message and what conditions cause that to happen. I'd also look closely at whatever code in the driver is setting up the I/O and what bits in the emulated CSR are getting twiddled. I would be especially suspicious if it did things differently than VMS was doing it. Source for, say, the VMS 4.4 RB730 driver might be easier to find on fische than online, but I did spot the hardware docs on Bitsavers (http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/vax/730/EK-RB730-TD-001_VAX-11_730_IDC_Technical_Description_Sep82.pdf) One should be able to attach an RA81 to the emulated 11/730, run from that, then use the running system to debug problems with the RB730 code. It would at least allow a controlled poking at the driver, and even adding driver debug code. -ethan From b4 at gewt.net Wed Jul 2 13:49:25 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 13:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] sigma simulator Message-ID: Hello, The unfinished sigma simulator dumps core on quit...which I find interesting. Will look in to finding out /why/. Not that the simulator really works otherwise, mind...;) -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 11:54:34 2014 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 11:54:34 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A5E@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Cory Smelosky wrote: >>> root device? rb0* <--- Enter "rb0*" here. >>> idc0: lost interrupt <--- This error repeats infinitely. > > One should be able to attach an RA81 to the emulated 11/730, run from > that, then use the running system to debug problems with the RB730 > code. It would at least allow a controlled poking at the driver, and > even adding driver debug code. OK... so getting caught up on this, I see that device debugging support is already included in recent versions of SIMH. Very nice. I've enabled it ("set rb debug") and gone through the boot process described previously and there aren't that many register writes up to the "lost interrupt" point... root device? rb0* DBG(319687933)> RB REG: reg 0 write, value = 100C6 DBG(319687934)> RB REG: reg 3 write, value = 250000 DBG(319687940)> RB REG: reg 0 write, value = 46 DBG(319687957)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 4000046 DBG(319688004)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 4000046 DBG(319688051)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 4000046 DBG(319688090)> RB CMD: Seek, CYL=37, TRK=0, SECT=0 DBG(319688090)> RB CMD: Done, INT DBG(319688098)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 50100C6 DBG(319688104)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 50100C6 DBG(319688104)> RB REG: reg 0 write, value = 50000C6 DBG(319688105)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 40000C6 DBG(319688140)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 40000C6 DBG(319688143)> RB REG: reg 0 write, value = C0 DBG(319688440)> RB CMD: Done, INT DBG(319688558)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 50000C1 DBG(319688561)> RB REG: reg 0 write, value = C0 idc0: lost interrupt DBG(523421810)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 40000C1 DBG(523421813)> RB REG: reg 0 write, value = C0 idc0: lost interrupt DBG(729448369)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 40000C1 DBG(729448372)> RB REG: reg 0 write, value = C0 idc0: lost interrupt I haven't traced out every bit of every transaction there (I see the disk address (DAR) write, but no bus address (BAR) or byte count (BCR) writes yet), but once it's in the loop, the CSR is reading back R80+CRDY+IE+DRDY (R80 selected, controller ready, interrupts enabled, and drive ready) and the BSD driver is writing into it a "Get status" function (010 in F2:F0) and clearly not seeing what it is expecting. So from thee top, I see the BSD driver put in a Seek command, the SIMH rb handler process that seek and interrupt the BSD driver, which then fiddles a few things (ATTN0 and IR) to acknowledge the interrupt, then sends a status request, which appears to trigger the second interrupt, but the BSD driver must not be seeing what it likes because it loops on sending that status request every few seconds. Probably time to hit the idc driver in 4.3BSD to see what _it_ thinks should be happening. -ethan From b4 at gewt.net Fri Jul 4 20:50:41 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 20:50:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] Followup to SIMH MicroVAX II breaking on OS X Message-ID: Hello, I've gotten it to not deadlock and get through diagnostics now. It works fine with DEBUG=1. sim> show ver MicroVAX II (KA630) simulator V4.0-0 Beta Simulator Framework Capabilities: 64b data 64b addresses Ethernet Packet transport:PCAP:UDP Idle/Throttling support is available Virtual Hard Disk (VHD) support Asynchronous I/O support Host Platform: Compiler: GCC 4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 6.0 (clang-600.0.34.2) Simulator Compiled: Jul 4 2014 at 20:49:46 Memory Access: Little Endian Memory Pointer Size: 64 bits Large File (>2GB) support SDL Video support: No Video Support OS clock tick size: 2ms OS: Darwin melanie.gimme-sympathy.org 14.0.0 Darwin Kernel Version 14.0.0: Sat May 24 01:15:10 PDT 2014; root:xnu-2738.0.0.0.5~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64 git commit id: f961a98b -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From Mark at infocomm.com Fri Jul 4 20:57:02 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 17:57:02 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Followup to SIMH MicroVAX II breaking on OS X Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A5F@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Jul 4, 2014 2:52 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > Hello, > > I've gotten it to not deadlock and get through diagnostics now. It works > fine with DEBUG=1. > > sim> show ver > MicroVAX II (KA630) simulator V4.0-0 Beta > Simulator Framework Capabilities: > 64b data > 64b addresses > Ethernet Packet transport:PCAP:UDP > Idle/Throttling support is available > Virtual Hard Disk (VHD) support > Asynchronous I/O support > Host Platform: > Compiler: GCC 4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 6.0 > (clang-600.0.34.2) > Simulator Compiled: Jul 4 2014 at 20:49:46 > Memory Access: Little Endian > Memory Pointer Size: 64 bits > Large File (>2GB) support > SDL Video support: No Video Support > OS clock tick size: 2ms > OS: Darwin melanie.gimme-sympathy.org 14.0.0 Darwin Kernel > Version 14.0.0: Sat May 24 01:15:10 PDT 2014; > root:xnu-2738.0.0.0.5~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64 > > git commit id: f961a98b You have reproduced my working case. There is nothing to fix here. Can you reproduce the failing case and provide make output when building the failing case? What happens with the case you've got when you build without DEBUG=1? If it fails, please provide the make output. - Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Jul 7 16:14:51 2014 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 13:14:51 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Bug fixes... Message-ID: <20140707131451.2ca166bb@asrock.bcwi.net> Hi Bob, I compiled V39 with all the "interim" updates and got errors in the PDP11 and PDP10 modules. The first (PDP11) was an easy fix - a missing file def. in the "makefile". The second had two errors (looked like typos) in the "pdp10_rp.c" code. I fixed both (attached). The diffs are below. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ diff makefile.orig makefile 418c418 < ${PDP11D}/pdp11_rq.c ${PDP11D}/pdp11_tq.c ${PDP11D}/pdp11_pclk.c \ --- > ${PDP11D}/pdp11_rq.c $(PDP11D)/pdp11_rs.c ${PDP11D}/pdp11_tq.c > ${PDP11D}/pdp11_pclk.c \ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- diff pdp10_rp.c.orig pdp10_rp.c 811,812c811,812 < if (drv_tab[dtype].ctrl == RM_CTRL) { /* RM? */ < rp_set_er (ER1_ILF, drv); /* not supported */ --- > if (drv_tab[dtype].ctrl == MBA_RM_CTRL) { /* RM? */ > set_rper (ER1_ILF, drv); --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Regards, Lyle -- Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: makefile Type: application/octet-stream Size: 29348 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pdp10_rp.c Type: text/x-c++src Size: 59042 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Jul 7 16:42:54 2014 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:42:54 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A5E@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:38 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > In other news, I have had some assistance getting Quasijarus up and > running on the 11/730... > root device? rb0* <--- Enter "rb0*" here. > idc0: lost interrupt <--- This error repeats infinitely. So I was able to completely reproduce these results and I've done some digging into 4.3BSD's idc.c as well as simh's vax730_rb.c... by disassembling idc.o from the distro files and comparing it to the live in-memory contents of the running simulation, I've run across something interesting... First of all, I was able to confirm the in-memory location of the variable 'idcdebug' at 0x80063a5c, which lets me turn idc.c's debugging on and off. When I did this, I got a surprise - mixed in with a lot of debugging output was the rest of the startup and a "#" prompt. I am able to run commands, look around the disk, etc., only as long as idcdebug is non-zero. As soon as I turn it back to 0, the "lost interrupt" loop returns (but then turning debugging back on does not seem to unstick it - once stuck, it stays stuck). Specifically what I did was follow the recipe right up to the "root device?" prompt, then ^E to gain access to the "sim>" prompt, then "deposit 80063a5c 1" and "go". There follows a flurry of debugging statements ending in "#". Curiously, "idcdebug" only appears in the printd macro (as "if(idcdebug)printf"), so there must be some side-effect since the only direct linkage would be additional reads of the rb730 registers for some of the printf statements, and the indirect effects are to add additional cycles between operations (defeating a race condition?) I can capture the driver debugging output, but most of the output from a working machine is not useful for debugging - we already have a good idea of what should be happening when things are going well. That's all I've got for now, if someone wants to take it and run with it. -ethan From Mark at infocomm.com Mon Jul 7 17:25:28 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 14:25:28 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A69@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Jul 7, 2014 10:44 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:38 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove > wrote: > > In other news, I have had some assistance getting Quasijarus up and > > running on the 11/730... > > root device? rb0* <--- Enter "rb0*" here. > > idc0: lost interrupt <--- This error repeats infinitely. > > So I was able to completely reproduce these results and I've done some > digging into 4.3BSD's idc.c as well as simh's vax730_rb.c... by > disassembling idc.o from the distro files and comparing it to the live > in-memory contents of the running simulation, I've run across > something interesting... > > First of all, I was able to confirm the in-memory location of the > variable 'idcdebug' at 0x80063a5c, which lets me turn idc.c's > debugging on and off. When I did this, I got a surprise - mixed in > with a lot of debugging output was the rest of the startup and a "#" > prompt. I am able to run commands, look around the disk, etc., only > as long as idcdebug is non-zero. As soon as I turn it back to 0, the > "lost interrupt" loop returns (but then turning debugging back on does > not seem to unstick it - once stuck, it stays stuck). > > Specifically what I did was follow the recipe right up to the "root > device?" prompt, then ^E to gain access to the "sim>" prompt, then > "deposit 80063a5c 1" and "go". There follows a flurry of debugging > statements ending in "#". > > Curiously, "idcdebug" only appears in the printd macro (as > "if(idcdebug)printf"), so there must be some side-effect since the > only direct linkage would be additional reads of the rb730 registers > for some of the printf statements, and the indirect effects are to add > additional cycles between operations (defeating a race condition?) > > I can capture the driver debugging output, but most of the output from > a working machine is not useful for debugging - we already have a good > idea of what should be happening when things are going well. > > That's all I've got for now, if someone wants to take it and run with it. A useful debugging technique/tool is to turn on simh instruction history and to use simh breakpoints. The great thing about this is that without regard to the amount of simh debugging output that is produced or the contemplation time spent while stepping through the driver code the apparent timing the driver is counting on should not change and thus the problem should still appear. Give this a shot and see what you learn. - Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hbent at oberlin.edu Mon Jul 7 19:50:46 2014 From: hbent at oberlin.edu (Henry Bent) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 19:50:46 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? Message-ID: How are standalone programs loaded and run on the 8600? On the 7x0 I can do "load -o boot 0" and "run 2" and that will run a standalone boot. When I do that in the 8600 sim I get a newline and then the program just loops forever. Alternately, does anyone know the right way to load bootblocks on an ra disk in Ultrix 1 or 2 so that I can boot off of the disk directly? Everything I've tried just ends up giving a "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate BOOT fil" message from vmb.exe. -Henry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at supnik.org Tue Jul 8 00:12:49 2014 From: bob at supnik.org (Bob Supnik) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 00:12:49 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Sigma simulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53BB6FC1.50008@supnik.org> I went back to look at it last week for the first time in six years. It certainly works well enough to run a whole bunch of diagnostics, according to the notes I left back in 2008. More documentation on the disk peripherals has surfaced in recent years, and some of them would need to be implemented to have a reasonable shot at running the OS. In addition, IIRC, the peripheral simulation is not as accurate as it needs to be, particularly on status codes and error conditions. I hope to get back to the Sigma in the fall, but in the meantime, feel free to work on it and fix any bugs you find. /Bob > ------------------------------ Message:2 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 > 13:49:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Cory Smelosky To: > simh at trailing-edge.com Subject: [Simh] sigma simulator Message-ID: > Content-Type: > TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Hello, The unfinished > sigma simulator dumps core on quit...which I find interesting. Will > look in to finding out /why/. Not that the simulator really works > otherwise, mind...;) From bqt at softjar.se Tue Jul 8 07:50:57 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:50:57 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> On 2014-07-08 01:50, Henry Bent wrote: > How are standalone programs loaded and run on the 8600? On the 7x0 I > can do "load -o boot 0" and "run 2" and that will run a standalone > boot. When I do that in the 8600 sim I get a newline and then the > program just loops forever. > > Alternately, does anyone know the right way to load bootblocks on an ra > disk in Ultrix 1 or 2 so that I can boot off of the disk directly? > Everything I've tried just ends up giving a "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate > BOOT fil" message from vmb.exe. VMB needs to have R5 set to specific values to boot Ultrix. If I remember right, bit 3 (0x8) needs to be set in R5 in order for VMB to just load the boot block from the device and start executing that instead of trying to look for specific files inside a Files-11 filesystem. But on a rel 86x0, you can also load other binaries from the console device, and just start them. For old versions of Ultrix, I seem to remember that this is what they did, before VMB gained the capability to boot from a boot block. Johnny From matt at 9track.net Tue Jul 8 20:31:40 2014 From: matt at 9track.net (Matt Burke) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2014 01:31:40 +0100 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> Message-ID: <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> On 08/07/2014 12:50, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On 2014-07-08 01:50, Henry Bent wrote: >> How are standalone programs loaded and run on the 8600? On the 7x0 I >> can do "load -o boot 0" and "run 2" and that will run a standalone >> boot. When I do that in the 8600 sim I get a newline and then the >> program just loops forever. >> >> Alternately, does anyone know the right way to load bootblocks on an ra >> disk in Ultrix 1 or 2 so that I can boot off of the disk directly? >> Everything I've tried just ends up giving a "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate >> BOOT fil" message from vmb.exe. > > VMB needs to have R5 set to specific values to boot Ultrix. > If I remember right, bit 3 (0x8) needs to be set in R5 in order for > VMB to just load the boot block from the device and start executing > that instead of trying to look for specific files inside a Files-11 > filesystem. > > But on a rel 86x0, you can also load other binaries from the console > device, and just start them. For old versions of Ultrix, I seem to > remember that this is what they did, before VMB gained the capability > to boot from a boot block. > The value 8 is correct for R5. To boot this in simh use: sim> b rq0 /r5:8 On a side note I think this flag is not required on later VAX system such as the MicroVAX II. The ROM code seems to work out what to do. 'load -o' is supported on the VAX 8600 so I suspect there is another issue. It could be a problem with the console device as I think someone has previously mentioned that there are some issues with my implementation (unless this been fixed now?) Matt From bqt at softjar.se Tue Jul 8 21:01:45 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2014 03:01:45 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> Message-ID: <53BC9479.40409@softjar.se> On 2014-07-09 02:31, Matt Burke wrote: > On 08/07/2014 12:50, Johnny Billquist wrote: >> On 2014-07-08 01:50, Henry Bent wrote: >>> How are standalone programs loaded and run on the 8600? On the 7x0 I >>> can do "load -o boot 0" and "run 2" and that will run a standalone >>> boot. When I do that in the 8600 sim I get a newline and then the >>> program just loops forever. >>> >>> Alternately, does anyone know the right way to load bootblocks on an ra >>> disk in Ultrix 1 or 2 so that I can boot off of the disk directly? >>> Everything I've tried just ends up giving a "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate >>> BOOT fil" message from vmb.exe. >> >> VMB needs to have R5 set to specific values to boot Ultrix. >> If I remember right, bit 3 (0x8) needs to be set in R5 in order for >> VMB to just load the boot block from the device and start executing >> that instead of trying to look for specific files inside a Files-11 >> filesystem. >> >> But on a rel 86x0, you can also load other binaries from the console >> device, and just start them. For old versions of Ultrix, I seem to >> remember that this is what they did, before VMB gained the capability >> to boot from a boot block. >> > > The value 8 is correct for R5. To boot this in simh use: > > sim> b rq0 /r5:8 > > On a side note I think this flag is not required on later VAX system > such as the MicroVAX II. The ROM code seems to work out what to do. > > 'load -o' is supported on the VAX 8600 so I suspect there is another > issue. It could be a problem with the console device as I think someone > has previously mentioned that there are some issues with my > implementation (unless this been fixed now?) I have played some with the simh 86x0 implementation, but I don't think I've checked much about the console device. But I don't think that should matter. Once you've loaded the binary from the console device, the console device isn't used any more on the real machine. Older versions of NetBSD used to boot that way, and you just loaded the boot file from the RL02, and started. And I seem to remember that it was started at address 2. But that of course depends on the boot image... And the boot image in turn knows how to read an FFS file system, and continued to load /vmunix from there (or whatever name for the kernel it was looking for). Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From Mark at infocomm.com Thu Jul 10 18:02:01 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:02:01 -0700 Subject: [Simh] sigma simulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592CD@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Wednesday, July 2, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > Hello, > > The unfinished sigma simulator dumps core on quit...which I find interesting. > Will look in to finding out /why/. > > Not that the simulator really works otherwise, mind...;) Fixed now. Also added makefile sections and Visual Studio Projects for sigma and alpha. Sigma and alpha aren't built unless they are explicitly mentioned on the make command line (they are not included in 'all' since they aren't finished). These are provided in case someone wants to work towards completing them. - Mark From b4 at gewt.net Thu Jul 10 18:03:55 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] sigma simulator In-Reply-To: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592CD@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592CD@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > On Wednesday, July 2, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Cory Smelosky wrote: >> Hello, >> >> The unfinished sigma simulator dumps core on quit...which I find interesting. >> Will look in to finding out /why/. >> >> Not that the simulator really works otherwise, mind...;) > > Fixed now. > Cool. > Also added makefile sections and Visual Studio Projects for sigma and alpha. Sigma and alpha aren't built unless they are explicitly mentioned on the make command line (they are not included in 'all' since they aren't finished). These are provided in case someone wants to work towards completing them. > That makes debugging + testing a little bit easier now. > - Mark > > > > > -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From hbent at oberlin.edu Thu Jul 10 18:10:33 2014 From: hbent at oberlin.edu (Henry Bent) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:10:33 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> Message-ID: Well, that at least did something different. sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 Loading boot code from vmb.exe %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console problems. I tried the standalone boot on the other VAX sims (microvax 1, 2, 3900, and rtvax1000) and they are all able to load the booter and take console input (I didn't actually try booting). This seems to point to there being a problem with the console on the 8600. Any tips for where I should look to narrow down where the problem might be? -Henry On 8 July 2014 20:31, Matt Burke wrote: > On 08/07/2014 12:50, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > On 2014-07-08 01:50, Henry Bent wrote: > >> How are standalone programs loaded and run on the 8600? On the 7x0 I > >> can do "load -o boot 0" and "run 2" and that will run a standalone > >> boot. When I do that in the 8600 sim I get a newline and then the > >> program just loops forever. > >> > >> Alternately, does anyone know the right way to load bootblocks on an ra > >> disk in Ultrix 1 or 2 so that I can boot off of the disk directly? > >> Everything I've tried just ends up giving a "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate > >> BOOT fil" message from vmb.exe. > > > > VMB needs to have R5 set to specific values to boot Ultrix. > > If I remember right, bit 3 (0x8) needs to be set in R5 in order for > > VMB to just load the boot block from the device and start executing > > that instead of trying to look for specific files inside a Files-11 > > filesystem. > > > > But on a rel 86x0, you can also load other binaries from the console > > device, and just start them. For old versions of Ultrix, I seem to > > remember that this is what they did, before VMB gained the capability > > to boot from a boot block. > > > > The value 8 is correct for R5. To boot this in simh use: > > sim> b rq0 /r5:8 > > On a side note I think this flag is not required on later VAX system > such as the MicroVAX II. The ROM code seems to work out what to do. > > 'load -o' is supported on the VAX 8600 so I suspect there is another > issue. It could be a problem with the console device as I think someone > has previously mentioned that there are some issues with my > implementation (unless this been fixed now?) > > Matt > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b4 at gewt.net Thu Jul 10 18:12:43 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > Well, that at least did something different. > > sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > Loading boot code from vmb.exe > %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > problems. > 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually booting from the console RL, floppy, et al. > I tried the standalone boot on the other VAX sims (microvax 1, 2, 3900, and > rtvax1000) and they are all able to load the booter and take console input > (I didn't actually try booting). This seems to point to there being a > problem with the console on the 8600. Any tips for where I should look to > narrow down where the problem might be? > > -Henry > -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From Mark at infocomm.com Thu Jul 10 19:08:46 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 16:08:46 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D0@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > Well, that at least did something different. > > > > sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > > > The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > > messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > > problems. > > > > 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually booting from > the console RL, floppy, et al. The last character output in a message just prior to executing a HALT instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a delay (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in the output register prior to generating the completion interrupt/status. The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of instructions have completed. Even if that was 'fixed', nothing operational would change. The reason the message has been generated will still exist. As for direct support for booting an OS from the console media, the 8600 supports BOOT CS /R5:xx to boot from the console RL02. Other than that, VMB.EXE is actually performing the boot operation and I think that when I checked VMB didn't know how to boot from console floppies on a 780, but it can boot from the console TU58 on both the 730 and 750 (BOOT TD /R5:xx). > > I tried the standalone boot on the other VAX sims (microvax 1, 2, > > 3900, and > > rtvax1000) and they are all able to load the booter and take console > > input (I didn't actually try booting). This seems to point to there > > being a problem with the console on the 8600. Any tips for where I > > should look to narrow down where the problem might be? What media have you tested with on the other (qbus) VAX simulators? - Mark From bqt at softjar.se Thu Jul 10 20:00:17 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 02:00:17 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D0@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D0@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: <53BF2911.9000307@softjar.se> On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: >> >>> Well, that at least did something different. >>> >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio >>> >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console >>> problems. >>> >> >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually booting from >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing a HALT instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a delay (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in the output register prior to generating the completion interrupt/status. The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of instructions have completed. Even if that was 'fixed', nothing operational would change. The reason the message has been generated will still exist. > > As for direct support for booting an OS from the console media, the 8600 supports BOOT CS /R5:xx to boot from the console RL02. Other than that, VMB.EXE is actually performing the boot operation and I think that when I checked VMB didn't know how to boot from console floppies on a 780, but it can boot from the console TU58 on both the 730 and 750 (BOOT TD /R5:xx). Well, I used to boot NetBSD on "my" 8650 by direct booting without VMB, Here is the COM file: ------------ ! ! Load 'boot.' and boot NetBSD. ! ! 'ra' MSCP drive type boot to multi user mode ! ! SET SNAP ON ! Enable ERROR_HALT snapshots SET FBOX OFF ! System will turn on Fbox INIT ! SRM processor init UNJAM ! UNJAM SBIA's and enable master sbia interrupts INIT/PAMM ! INIT physical address memory map DEPOSIT CSWP 8 ! Turn off the cache - System will enable cache !DEPOSIT R10 9 ! 'ra' MSCP drive type - uba0 - drive 0 !DEPOSIT R11 0 ! Software boot flags (multi user mode) DEP R0 11 DEP R1 20006000 DEP R2 2013f468 DEP R3 F ! Unit number DEP R4 0 LOAD/START:0 BOOT. ! Load 'boot.' at memory location 0 START 60 ! Start 'boot.' at the address 60 ------------ But note, that is not not through VMB, so any discussions about R5 previously is not relevant here. Also, the start address is very much depending on the actual image loaded. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From Mark at infocomm.com Thu Jul 10 20:22:42 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 17:22:42 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > >> > >>> Well, that at least did something different. > >>> > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > >>> > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > >>> problems. > >>> > >> > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually booting from > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing a HALT instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a delay (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in the output register prior to generating the completion interrupt/status. The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of instructions have completed. Even if that was 'fixed', nothing operational would change. The reason the message has been generated will still exist. > > > > As for direct support for booting an OS from the console media, the 8600 supports BOOT CS /R5:xx to boot from the console RL02. Other than that, VMB.EXE is actually performing the boot operation and I think that when I checked VMB didn't know how to boot from console floppies on a 780, but it can boot from the console TU58 on both the 730 and 750 (BOOT TD /R5:xx). > > Well, I used to boot NetBSD on "my" 8650 by direct booting without VMB, > Here is the COM file: > > ------------ > ! > ! Load 'boot.' and boot NetBSD. > ! > ! 'ra' MSCP drive type boot to multi user mode > ! > ! > SET SNAP ON ! Enable ERROR_HALT snapshots > SET FBOX OFF ! System will turn on Fbox > INIT ! SRM processor init > UNJAM ! UNJAM SBIA's and enable master sbia interrupts > INIT/PAMM ! INIT physical address memory map > DEPOSIT CSWP 8 ! Turn off the cache - System will enable cache > > !DEPOSIT R10 9 ! 'ra' MSCP drive type - uba0 - drive 0 > !DEPOSIT R11 0 ! Software boot flags (multi user mode) > > DEP R0 11 > DEP R1 20006000 > DEP R2 2013f468 > DEP R3 F ! Unit number > DEP R4 0 > > LOAD/START:0 BOOT. ! Load 'boot.' at memory location 0 > START 60 ! Start 'boot.' at the address 60 > ------------ > > But note, that is not not through VMB, so any discussions about R5 > previously is not relevant here. Also, the start address is very much > depending on the actual image loaded. All of these things can still be done with the simh VAX simulators. The default BOOT command operations setup and use VMB since that was the most common operation across 'most' deployed systems. What is done within the BOOT command is very much what Johnny's COM file does (init register values as need, load and start VMB). - Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hbent at oberlin.edu Thu Jul 10 20:41:29 2014 From: hbent at oberlin.edu (Henry Bent) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:41:29 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D0@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D0@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: I got a console RL02 image from Quasijarus - the only one I could find easily - but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with it. All I get is this: -- sim> boot cs /r5:8 Loading boot code from vmb.exe Please remove the volume "" from the console device. Insert the first standalone system volume and enter "YES" when ready: -- But that's neither here nor there at this point. The 8600 doesn't seem to be able to run any standalone utilities - they all print one character to the console and then stop. For example, "copy" and "format": sim> load -o copy 0 sim> run 2 F sim> load -o format 0 sim> run 2 D While on any other vax simulator, I get: sim> load -o copy 0 sim> run 2 From: sim> load -o format 0 sim> run 2 Disk format/check utility Enable debugging (0=none, 1=bse, 2=ecc, 3=bse+ecc)? I haven't done any real testing of the qbus vax sims, I just verified that they could load and run standalone utilities. -Henry On 10 July 2014 19:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > > > Well, that at least did something different. > > > > > > sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > > Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > > %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > > > > > The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > > > messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > > > problems. > > > > > > > 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually booting > from > > the console RL, floppy, et al. > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing a HALT > instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a delay (as a > number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in the output > register prior to generating the completion interrupt/status. The halt > instruction gets executed before the delay number of instructions have > completed. Even if that was 'fixed', nothing operational would change. > The reason the message has been generated will still exist. > > As for direct support for booting an OS from the console media, the 8600 > supports BOOT CS /R5:xx to boot from the console RL02. Other than that, > VMB.EXE is actually performing the boot operation and I think that when I > checked VMB didn't know how to boot from console floppies on a 780, but it > can boot from the console TU58 on both the 730 and 750 (BOOT TD /R5:xx). > > > > I tried the standalone boot on the other VAX sims (microvax 1, 2, > > > 3900, and > > > rtvax1000) and they are all able to load the booter and take console > > > input (I didn't actually try booting). This seems to point to there > > > being a problem with the console on the 8600. Any tips for where I > > > should look to narrow down where the problem might be? > > What media have you tested with on the other (qbus) VAX simulators? > > - Mark > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From khandy21yo at gmail.com Thu Jul 10 21:28:02 2014 From: khandy21yo at gmail.com (khandy21yo) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 19:28:02 -0600 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? Message-ID: <3d5h391xnceh620ppak0dgdq.1405041709702@email.android.com> Might these umfinished operations cause problems? Unflushed disk buffers ?during shutdown for example. -------- Original message -------- From Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm Date: 07/10/2014 5:08 PM (GMT-07:00) To Cory Smelosky ,Simh Cc simh at trailing-edge.com Subject Re: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > Well, that at least did something different. > > > > sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > > > The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > > messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > > problems. > > > > 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually booting from > the console RL, floppy, et al. The last character output in a message just prior to executing a HALT instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a delay (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in the output register prior to generating the completion interrupt/status.? The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of instructions have completed.? Even if that was 'fixed', nothing operational would change.? The reason the message has been generated will still exist. As for direct support for booting an OS from the console media, the 8600 supports BOOT CS /R5:xx to boot from the console RL02.? Other than that, VMB.EXE is actually performing the boot operation and I think that when I checked VMB didn't know how to boot from console floppies on a 780, but it can boot from the console TU58 on both the 730 and 750 (BOOT TD /R5:xx). > > I tried the standalone boot on the other VAX sims (microvax 1, 2, > > 3900, and > > rtvax1000) and they are all able to load the booter and take console > > input (I didn't actually try booting).? This seems to point to there > > being a problem with the console on the 8600.? Any tips for where I > > should look to narrow down where the problem might be? What media have you tested with on the other (qbus) VAX simulators? - Mark _______________________________________________ Simh mailing list Simh at trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bqt at softjar.se Thu Jul 10 21:59:29 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 03:59:29 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: <53BF4501.5030006@softjar.se> On 2014-07-11 02:22, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > >> > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. > > >>> > > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > >>> > > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > > >>> problems. > > >>> > > >> > > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually > booting from > > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > > > > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing a > HALT instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a > delay (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put > in the output register prior to generating the completion > interrupt/status. The halt instruction gets executed before the delay > number of instructions have completed. Even if that was 'fixed', > nothing operational would change. The reason the message has been > generated will still exist. > > > > > > As for direct support for booting an OS from the console media, the > 8600 supports BOOT CS /R5:xx to boot from the console RL02. Other than > that, VMB.EXE is actually performing the boot operation and I think that > when I checked VMB didn't know how to boot from console floppies on a > 780, but it can boot from the console TU58 on both the 730 and 750 (BOOT > TD /R5:xx). > > > > Well, I used to boot NetBSD on "my" 8650 by direct booting without VMB, > > Here is the COM file: > > > > ------------ > > ! > > ! Load 'boot.' and boot NetBSD. > > ! > > ! 'ra' MSCP drive type boot to multi user mode > > ! > > ! > > SET SNAP ON ! Enable ERROR_HALT snapshots > > SET FBOX OFF ! System will turn on Fbox > > INIT ! SRM processor init > > UNJAM ! UNJAM SBIA's and enable master sbia interrupts > > INIT/PAMM ! INIT physical address memory map > > DEPOSIT CSWP 8 ! Turn off the cache - System will enable cache > > > > !DEPOSIT R10 9 ! 'ra' MSCP drive type - uba0 - drive 0 > > !DEPOSIT R11 0 ! Software boot flags (multi user mode) > > > > DEP R0 11 > > DEP R1 20006000 > > DEP R2 2013f468 > > DEP R3 F ! Unit number > > DEP R4 0 > > > > LOAD/START:0 BOOT. ! Load 'boot.' at memory location 0 > > START 60 ! Start 'boot.' at the address 60 > > ------------ > > > > But note, that is not not through VMB, so any discussions about R5 > > previously is not relevant here. Also, the start address is very much > > depending on the actual image loaded. > > All of these things can still be done with the simh VAX simulators. The > default BOOT command operations setup and use VMB since that was the > most common operation across 'most' deployed systems. What is done > within the BOOT command is very much what Johnny's COM file does (init > register values as need, load and start VMB). For completeness sake then, here is the command files to boot VMS and NetBSD, using VMB as well. (VMS, booting an RA disk over CI) ---------- ! ! Version: 001.000 ! ! CI PORT BOOT COMMAND FILE - CIBOO.COM ! ! This CI port boot command file is set up to boot from a CI ! device; for example, a HSC based disk. ! ! It assumes the CI780 is on SBIA #0, the TR level of the CI780 ! is set to 14, the HSC node number is set to 15 and the disk's ! unit number is 0. ! ! If any of these assumptions are not true for your configuration, ! you may still use this command file by entering the BOOT/NOSTART ! console command and then altering the appropriate register values ! when the console command prompt reappears. Use the console ! command SHOW BOOT.HLP/ASCII to get more information on how to ! use the BOOT/NOSTART command and R5 boot options. ! ! ! Operating System Disk: CI DEVICE ! ! SET SNAP ON ! Enable ERROR_HALT snapshots SET FBOX OFF ! VMS will turn on Fbox INIT ! SRM processor init UNJAM ! UNJAM SBIAs, Enable Master SBI interrupts DEPOSIT CSWP 8 ! Turn off the cache (VMS turns the cache on) ! DEPOSIT R0 20 ! Device Type is CI780 DEPOSIT R1 E ! SBIA #0; TR number of the CI780 is 14 DEPOSIT R2 3 ! HSC port number 15 DEPOSIT R3 4 ! Unit number to boot from (in HEX) DEPOSIT R4 0 ! Logical block number to boot from if R5 bit 3 is set ! Use R5 for optional boot control flags DEPOSIT R5 0 ! Boot to multiuser. FIND/MEMORY ! Locate a 64KB chunk of good memory EXAMINE SP ! Display load address LOAD/START:@ VMB ! Load VMB 200 bytes above the start of the good block START @ ! Start VMB at the load address -------- And NetBSD, booting from an RA drive connected locally. -------- ! ! Version: 001.000 ! ! DU0 BOOT COMMAND FILE - DU0BOO.COM ! ! This UNIBUS disk boot command file is set up to boot from a RA ! series disk connected to a UDA50. ! ! It assumes the DW780 is on SBIA #0, the TR level of the DW780 ! is set to 5, the UDA50 is the first one on the system, the ! UDA50 CSR address is 772150 and the disk's unit number is 0. ! ! If any of these assumptions are not true for your configuration, ! you may still use this command file by entering the BOOT/NOSTART ! console command and then altering the appropriate register values ! when the console command prompt reappears. Use the console ! command SHOW BOOT.HLP/ASCII to get more information on how to ! use the BOOT/NOSTART command and R5 boot options. ! ! ! Operating System Disk: UNIBUS DISK (UDA50) ! ! SET SNAP ON ! Enable ERROR_HALT snapshots SET FBOX OFF ! VMS will turn on Fbox INIT ! SRM processor init UNJAM ! UNJAM SBIAs, Enable Master SBI interrupts DEPOSIT CSWP 8 ! Turn off the cache (VMS turns the cache on) ! DEPOSIT R0 11 ! Device Type is UDA50 DEPOSIT R1 3 ! SBIA #0; TR of the DW780 is 3 (DW0) DEPOSIT R2 0103F468 ! Controller A (01) at Unibus CSR address 772150 DEPOSIT R3 F ! Unit number to boot from (in HEX) DEPOSIT R4 0 ! Logical block number to boot from if R5 bit 3 is set ! Use R5 for optional boot control flags DEPOSIT R5 10008 ! Boot to multiuser (bit 0 - ask for image) ! (bit 1 - single user) FIND/MEMORY ! Locate a 64KB chunk of good memory EXAMINE SP ! Display load address LOAD/START:@ VMB ! Load VMB 200 bytes above the start of the good block START @ ! Start VMB at the load address -------- These are the actual files on my console pack, and they are used just like they appear here. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From bqt at softjar.se Thu Jul 10 22:05:56 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 04:05:56 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D0@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: <53BF4684.1050803@softjar.se> On 2014-07-11 02:41, Henry Bent wrote: > I got a console RL02 image from Quasijarus - the only one I could find > easily - but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with it. All I get is > this: > > -- > sim> boot cs /r5:8 > Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > > > Please remove the volume "" from the console device. > > Insert the first standalone system volume and enter "YES" when ready: > -- That is expected. If you actually do this, you are expected to actually have the *system* on an RL02, that you will be booting from. As the normal console pack have all the diagnostics, boot images, microcode, and so on, there is no other system on that pack. This means that you are expected to replace the console pack at this point with another RL02 which contains some kind of a system. For normal VMS installations, this is how you initially install VMS. The second RL02 will contain STABACKIT, which is the standalone backup system. That is in turn used to restore from tapes to some actual other drive you have on the system, thus creating a bootable system disk. Unless you really are installing VMS from scratch, this is probably not something you want to do, or is what you thought you were doing. You probably want to boot from some actual disk you have, such as an RA disk attached to the machine. See my other mail about boot command files for the 86x0 machines. Oh, and I have never used Quasijaurus, so for that specific topic I can't offer any help. So you have a real physical 86x0 machine? Nice! Ping me off list, if you want to talk some more about it. Johnny > > But that's neither here nor there at this point. The 8600 doesn't seem > to be able to run any standalone utilities - they all print one > character to the console and then stop. For example, "copy" and "format": > > sim> load -o copy 0 > sim> run 2 > F > > sim> load -o format 0 > sim> run 2 > D > > While on any other vax simulator, I get: > > sim> load -o copy 0 > sim> run 2 > From: > > sim> load -o format 0 > sim> run 2 > Disk format/check utility > > Enable debugging (0=none, 1=bse, 2=ecc, 3=bse+ecc)? > > > I haven't done any real testing of the qbus vax sims, I just verified > that they could load and run standalone utilities. > > -Henry > > > > > On 10 July 2014 19:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm > wrote: > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > > > Well, that at least did something different. > > > > > > sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > > Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > > %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > > > > > The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character > of its > > > messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other > console > > > problems. > > > > > > > 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually > booting from > > the console RL, floppy, et al. > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing a > HALT instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a > delay (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is > put in the output register prior to generating the completion > interrupt/status. The halt instruction gets executed before the > delay number of instructions have completed. Even if that was > 'fixed', nothing operational would change. The reason the message > has been generated will still exist. > > As for direct support for booting an OS from the console media, the > 8600 supports BOOT CS /R5:xx to boot from the console RL02. Other > than that, VMB.EXE is actually performing the boot operation and I > think that when I checked VMB didn't know how to boot from console > floppies on a 780, but it can boot from the console TU58 on both the > 730 and 750 (BOOT TD /R5:xx). > > > > I tried the standalone boot on the other VAX sims (microvax 1, 2, > > > 3900, and > > > rtvax1000) and they are all able to load the booter and take > console > > > input (I didn't actually try booting). This seems to point to > there > > > being a problem with the console on the 8600. Any tips for where I > > > should look to narrow down where the problem might be? > > What media have you tested with on the other (qbus) VAX simulators? > > - Mark > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From Mark at infocomm.com Sat Jul 12 19:33:43 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:33:43 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote: > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > >> > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. > >>> > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > >>> > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > >>> problems. > >>> > >> > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually booting from > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing a HALT > > instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a delay > > (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in > > the output register prior to generating the completion interrupt/status. > >? The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of > > instructions have completed.? Even if that was 'fixed', nothing > > operational would change.? The reason the message has been > > generated will still exist. The latest github code will no longer drop the last character output just prior to executing a HALT instruction which returns to the "sim> " prompt. Like I said above, nothing else changes though. - Mark From hbent at oberlin.edu Sat Jul 12 22:19:28 2014 From: hbent at oberlin.edu (Henry Bent) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 22:19:28 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: Cool, thanks. I figured out what's going on. The standalone programs are running, they just aren't displaying any input or output after the first character is printed. So if I do this: -- sim> load -o boot 0 sim> run 2 -- and then blindly type "ra(0,0)vmunix", it boots! -- Ultrix V2.2 System #2: Wed Nov 18 01:14:13 EST 1987 real mem = 8388608 avail mem = 6888448 using 34 buffers containing 278528 bytes of memory VAX 8600, serial no. 1234, hardware level = 7 IO adapter 0 at address 0x20080000 is an SBI adapter uba0 at address 0x20006000 uda0 at uba0 uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 ra0 at uq0 slave 0 de0 at uba0 csr 174510 vec 120, ipl 15 mba0 at address 0x20012000 ht0 at mba0 drive 0 tu0 at ht0 slave 0 boot device not found root device? -- And I can then interact with the console, characters are displayed normally, etc. -Henry On 12 July 2014 19:33, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote: > > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > > > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. > > >>> > > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > >>> > > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > > >>> problems. > > >>> > > >> > > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually > booting from > > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > > > > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing a HALT > > > instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a delay > > > (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in > > > the output register prior to generating the completion > interrupt/status. > > > The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of > > > instructions have completed. Even if that was 'fixed', nothing > > > operational would change. The reason the message has been > > > generated will still exist. > > The latest github code will no longer drop the last character output just > prior to executing a HALT instruction which returns to the "sim> " prompt. > > Like I said above, nothing else changes though. > > - Mark > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bqt at softjar.se Sat Jul 12 22:50:05 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 04:50:05 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: <53C1F3DD.4020908@softjar.se> On 2014-07-13 04:19, Henry Bent wrote: > Cool, thanks. > > I figured out what's going on. The standalone programs are running, > they just aren't displaying any input or output after the first > character is printed. So if I do this: > > -- > sim> load -o boot 0 > sim> run 2 > > -- > and then blindly type "ra(0,0)vmunix", it boots! [...] Hmm hmm. I suspect I might know what is going on there. I'd have to test and play around some to verify, though. The console I/O on the 86x0 machines are a bit special, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some issues in simh related to that. Mark, can we get some trace of all reads and writes to the registers related to the console? (There are four logical devices addressed on the 86x0 machines through the same CSRs.) Henry, if you could get such information logged, we could probably fix this pretty fast. Or else if you could just provide me with the files, I could test this myself as well. I don't have an old Ultrix image around, though. Johnny > > -- > Ultrix V2.2 System #2: Wed Nov 18 01:14:13 EST 1987 > real mem = 8388608 > avail mem = 6888448 > using 34 buffers containing 278528 bytes of memory > VAX 8600, serial no. 1234, hardware level = 7 > IO adapter 0 at address 0x20080000 is an SBI adapter > uba0 at address 0x20006000 > uda0 at uba0 > uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 > ra0 at uq0 slave 0 > de0 at uba0 csr 174510 vec 120, ipl 15 > mba0 at address 0x20012000 > ht0 at mba0 drive 0 > tu0 at ht0 slave 0 > boot device not found > root device? > -- > > And I can then interact with the console, characters are displayed > normally, etc. > > -Henry > > > On 12 July 2014 19:33, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm > wrote: > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote: > > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist > wrote: > > > > > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. > > >>> > > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > >>> > > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character > of its > > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other > console > > >>> problems. > > >>> > > >> > > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not > actually booting from > > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > > > > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing > a HALT > > > instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a > delay > > > (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in > > > the output register prior to generating the completion > interrupt/status. > > > The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of > > > instructions have completed. Even if that was 'fixed', nothing > > > operational would change. The reason the message has been > > > generated will still exist. > > The latest github code will no longer drop the last character output > just prior to executing a HALT instruction which returns to the > "sim> " prompt. > > Like I said above, nothing else changes though. > > - Mark > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From hbent at oberlin.edu Sat Jul 12 22:52:22 2014 From: hbent at oberlin.edu (Henry Bent) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 22:52:22 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <53C1F3DD.4020908@softjar.se> References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <53C1F3DD.4020908@softjar.se> Message-ID: Sure, I'll work on getting an Ultrix image in a usable state so that I can upload it. -Henry On 12 July 2014 22:50, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On 2014-07-13 04:19, Henry Bent wrote: > >> Cool, thanks. >> >> I figured out what's going on. The standalone programs are running, >> they just aren't displaying any input or output after the first >> character is printed. So if I do this: >> >> -- >> sim> load -o boot 0 >> sim> run 2 >> >> -- >> and then blindly type "ra(0,0)vmunix", it boots! >> > > [...] > > Hmm hmm. I suspect I might know what is going on there. I'd have to test > and play around some to verify, though. The console I/O on the 86x0 > machines are a bit special, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some > issues in simh related to that. > > Mark, can we get some trace of all reads and writes to the registers > related to the console? (There are four logical devices addressed on the > 86x0 machines through the same CSRs.) > > Henry, if you could get such information logged, we could probably fix > this pretty fast. Or else if you could just provide me with the files, I > could test this myself as well. I don't have an old Ultrix image around, > though. > > Johnny > > >> -- >> Ultrix V2.2 System #2: Wed Nov 18 01:14:13 EST 1987 >> real mem = 8388608 >> avail mem = 6888448 >> using 34 buffers containing 278528 bytes of memory >> VAX 8600, serial no. 1234, hardware level = 7 >> IO adapter 0 at address 0x20080000 is an SBI adapter >> uba0 at address 0x20006000 >> uda0 at uba0 >> uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 >> ra0 at uq0 slave 0 >> de0 at uba0 csr 174510 vec 120, ipl 15 >> mba0 at address 0x20012000 >> ht0 at mba0 drive 0 >> tu0 at ht0 slave 0 >> boot device not found >> root device? >> -- >> >> And I can then interact with the console, characters are displayed >> normally, etc. >> >> -Henry >> >> >> On 12 July 2014 19:33, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm > > wrote: >> >> On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote: >> > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist > > wrote: >> > > >> > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: >> > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: >> > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. >> > >>> >> > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 >> > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe >> > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio >> > >>> >> > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character >> of its >> > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other >> console >> > >>> problems. >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not >> actually booting from >> > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. >> > > >> > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing >> a HALT >> > > instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a >> delay >> > > (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put >> in >> > > the output register prior to generating the completion >> interrupt/status. >> > > The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of >> > > instructions have completed. Even if that was 'fixed', nothing >> > > operational would change. The reason the message has been >> > > generated will still exist. >> >> The latest github code will no longer drop the last character output >> just prior to executing a HALT instruction which returns to the >> "sim> " prompt. >> >> Like I said above, nothing else changes though. >> >> - Mark >> _______________________________________________ >> Simh mailing list >> Simh at trailing-edge.com >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh >> >> >> > > -- > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bqt at softjar.se Sat Jul 12 22:57:18 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 04:57:18 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <53C1F3DD.4020908@softjar.se> Message-ID: <53C1F58E.4080002@softjar.se> On 2014-07-13 04:52, Henry Bent wrote: > Sure, I'll work on getting an Ultrix image in a usable state so that I > can upload it. Actually, thinking about it, it should be enough with just the boot file that you are using. Johnny > > -Henry > > > On 12 July 2014 22:50, Johnny Billquist > wrote: > > On 2014-07-13 04:19, Henry Bent wrote: > > Cool, thanks. > > I figured out what's going on. The standalone programs are running, > they just aren't displaying any input or output after the first > character is printed. So if I do this: > > -- > sim> load -o boot 0 > sim> run 2 > > -- > and then blindly type "ra(0,0)vmunix", it boots! > > > [...] > > Hmm hmm. I suspect I might know what is going on there. I'd have to > test and play around some to verify, though. The console I/O on the > 86x0 machines are a bit special, and I wouldn't be surprised if > there were some issues in simh related to that. > > Mark, can we get some trace of all reads and writes to the registers > related to the console? (There are four logical devices addressed on > the 86x0 machines through the same CSRs.) > > Henry, if you could get such information logged, we could probably > fix this pretty fast. Or else if you could just provide me with the > files, I could test this myself as well. I don't have an old Ultrix > image around, though. > > Johnny > > > -- > Ultrix V2.2 System #2: Wed Nov 18 01:14:13 EST 1987 > real mem = 8388608 > avail mem = 6888448 > using 34 buffers containing 278528 bytes of memory > VAX 8600, serial no. 1234, hardware level = 7 > IO adapter 0 at address 0x20080000 is an SBI adapter > uba0 at address 0x20006000 > uda0 at uba0 > uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 > ra0 at uq0 slave 0 > de0 at uba0 csr 174510 vec 120, ipl 15 > mba0 at address 0x20012000 > ht0 at mba0 drive 0 > tu0 at ht0 slave 0 > boot device not found > root device? > -- > > And I can then interact with the console, characters are displayed > normally, etc. > > -Henry > > > On 12 July 2014 19:33, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm > > >> wrote: > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote: > > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist > > >> wrote: > > > > > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky > wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. > > >>> > > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > >>> > > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last > character > of its > > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to > the other > console > > >>> problems. > > >>> > > >> > > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not > actually booting from > > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > > > > > The last character output in a message just prior to > executing > a HALT > > > instruction is not surprising since the simulator > implements a > delay > > > (as a number of instructions executed) from when the > data is put in > > > the output register prior to generating the completion > interrupt/status. > > > The halt instruction gets executed before the delay > number of > > > instructions have completed. Even if that was > 'fixed', nothing > > > operational would change. The reason the message has been > > > generated will still exist. > > The latest github code will no longer drop the last > character output > just prior to executing a HALT instruction which returns to the > "sim> " prompt. > > Like I said above, nothing else changes though. > > - Mark > _________________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > __> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.__com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > > > > > -- > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt at softjar.se || > Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > > -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From hbent at oberlin.edu Sat Jul 12 23:01:02 2014 From: hbent at oberlin.edu (Henry Bent) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 23:01:02 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <53C1F58E.4080002@softjar.se> References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <53C1F3DD.4020908@softjar.se> <53C1F58E.4080002@softjar.se> Message-ID: Here you go: http://occs.cs.oberlin.edu/~hbent/vaxultrix/boot.gz -Henry On 12 July 2014 22:57, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On 2014-07-13 04:52, Henry Bent wrote: > >> Sure, I'll work on getting an Ultrix image in a usable state so that I >> can upload it. >> > > Actually, thinking about it, it should be enough with just the boot file > that you are using. > > Johnny > > >> -Henry >> >> >> On 12 July 2014 22:50, Johnny Billquist > > wrote: >> >> On 2014-07-13 04:19, Henry Bent wrote: >> >> Cool, thanks. >> >> I figured out what's going on. The standalone programs are >> running, >> they just aren't displaying any input or output after the first >> character is printed. So if I do this: >> >> -- >> sim> load -o boot 0 >> sim> run 2 >> >> -- >> and then blindly type "ra(0,0)vmunix", it boots! >> >> >> [...] >> >> Hmm hmm. I suspect I might know what is going on there. I'd have to >> test and play around some to verify, though. The console I/O on the >> 86x0 machines are a bit special, and I wouldn't be surprised if >> there were some issues in simh related to that. >> >> Mark, can we get some trace of all reads and writes to the registers >> related to the console? (There are four logical devices addressed on >> the 86x0 machines through the same CSRs.) >> >> Henry, if you could get such information logged, we could probably >> fix this pretty fast. Or else if you could just provide me with the >> files, I could test this myself as well. I don't have an old Ultrix >> image around, though. >> >> Johnny >> >> >> -- >> Ultrix V2.2 System #2: Wed Nov 18 01:14:13 EST 1987 >> real mem = 8388608 >> avail mem = 6888448 >> using 34 buffers containing 278528 bytes of memory >> VAX 8600, serial no. 1234, hardware level = 7 >> IO adapter 0 at address 0x20080000 is an SBI adapter >> uba0 at address 0x20006000 >> uda0 at uba0 >> uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 >> ra0 at uq0 slave 0 >> de0 at uba0 csr 174510 vec 120, ipl 15 >> mba0 at address 0x20012000 >> ht0 at mba0 drive 0 >> tu0 at ht0 slave 0 >> boot device not found >> root device? >> -- >> >> And I can then interact with the console, characters are displayed >> normally, etc. >> >> -Henry >> >> >> On 12 July 2014 19:33, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm >> >> >> wrote: >> >> On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote: >> > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist >> >> >> wrote: >> > > >> > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: >> > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky >> wrote: >> > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. >> > >>> >> > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 >> > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe >> > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio >> > >>> >> > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last >> character >> of its >> > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to >> the other >> console >> > >>> problems. >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not >> actually booting from >> > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. >> > > >> > > The last character output in a message just prior to >> executing >> a HALT >> > > instruction is not surprising since the simulator >> implements a >> delay >> > > (as a number of instructions executed) from when the >> data is put in >> > > the output register prior to generating the completion >> interrupt/status. >> > > The halt instruction gets executed before the delay >> number of >> > > instructions have completed. Even if that was >> 'fixed', nothing >> > > operational would change. The reason the message has >> been >> > > generated will still exist. >> >> The latest github code will no longer drop the last >> character output >> just prior to executing a HALT instruction which returns to >> the >> "sim> " prompt. >> >> Like I said above, nothing else changes though. >> >> - Mark >> _________________________________________________ >> >> Simh mailing list >> Simh at trailing-edge.com >> __> >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.__com/mailman/listinfo/simh >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus >> || on a psychedelic trip >> email: bqt at softjar.se || >> >> Reading murder books >> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol >> >> >> > > -- > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bqt at softjar.se Sun Jul 13 01:18:07 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 07:18:07 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <53C1F3DD.4020908@softjar.se> <53C1F58E.4080002@softjar.se> Message-ID: <53C2168F.5000505@softjar.se> On 2014-07-13 05:01, Henry Bent wrote: > Here you go: > http://occs.cs.oberlin.edu/~hbent/vaxultrix/boot.gz Thanks. I'll see if I have some time to look at it today. Johnny > > > -Henry > > > On 12 July 2014 22:57, Johnny Billquist > wrote: > > On 2014-07-13 04:52, Henry Bent wrote: > > Sure, I'll work on getting an Ultrix image in a usable state so > that I > can upload it. > > > Actually, thinking about it, it should be enough with just the boot > file that you are using. > > Johnny > > > -Henry > > > On 12 July 2014 22:50, Johnny Billquist > >> wrote: > > On 2014-07-13 04:19, Henry Bent wrote: > > Cool, thanks. > > I figured out what's going on. The standalone programs > are running, > they just aren't displaying any input or output after > the first > character is printed. So if I do this: > > -- > sim> load -o boot 0 > sim> run 2 > > -- > and then blindly type "ra(0,0)vmunix", it boots! > > > [...] > > Hmm hmm. I suspect I might know what is going on there. I'd > have to > test and play around some to verify, though. The console > I/O on the > 86x0 machines are a bit special, and I wouldn't be surprised if > there were some issues in simh related to that. > > Mark, can we get some trace of all reads and writes to the > registers > related to the console? (There are four logical devices > addressed on > the 86x0 machines through the same CSRs.) > > Henry, if you could get such information logged, we could > probably > fix this pretty fast. Or else if you could just provide me > with the > files, I could test this myself as well. I don't have an > old Ultrix > image around, though. > > Johnny > > > -- > Ultrix V2.2 System #2: Wed Nov 18 01:14:13 EST 1987 > real mem = 8388608 > avail mem = 6888448 > using 34 buffers containing 278528 bytes of memory > VAX 8600, serial no. 1234, hardware level = 7 > IO adapter 0 at address 0x20080000 is an SBI adapter > uba0 at address 0x20006000 > uda0 at uba0 > uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 > ra0 at uq0 slave 0 > de0 at uba0 csr 174510 vec 120, ipl 15 > mba0 at address 0x20012000 > ht0 at mba0 drive 0 > tu0 at ht0 slave 0 > boot device not found > root device? > -- > > And I can then interact with the console, characters > are displayed > normally, etc. > > -Henry > > > On 12 July 2014 19:33, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm > > > > > >>> wrote: > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark > Pizzolato wrote: > > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info > Comm wrote: > > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory > Smelosky > wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. > > >>> > > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > >>> > > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off > the last > character > of its > > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way > related to > the other > console > > >>> problems. > > >>> > > >> > > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same > issue...along with not > actually booting from > > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > > > > > The last character output in a message just > prior to > executing > a HALT > > > instruction is not surprising since the simulator > implements a > delay > > > (as a number of instructions executed) from > when the > data is put in > > > the output register prior to generating the > completion > interrupt/status. > > > The halt instruction gets executed before > the delay > number of > > > instructions have completed. Even if that was > 'fixed', nothing > > > operational would change. The reason the > message has been > > > generated will still exist. > > The latest github code will no longer drop the last > character output > just prior to executing a HALT instruction which > returns to the > "sim> " prompt. > > Like I said above, nothing else changes though. > > - Mark > ___________________________________________________ > > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > __> > __>__> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.____com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > > > > > > > > -- > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt at softjar.se > > || > > Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - > B. Idol > > > > > -- > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt at softjar.se || > Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > > -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From hbent at oberlin.edu Tue Jul 15 03:10:44 2014 From: hbent at oberlin.edu (Henry Bent) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 03:10:44 -0400 Subject: [Simh] 4.2BSD with networking on a VAX 11/780 Message-ID: Hi all, As part of ongoing efforts with a different project I set up a 4.2BSD install on a vax780 sim with networking support. After I did it I realized that I wasn't sure it had ever been done on SIMH before, so I wanted to let folks know that it's possible. All I've tested so far is the ftp client, but I was able to download files from a machine on the local subnet as well as a machine on the larger internet. If you want to try it out, http://occs.cs.oberlin.edu/~hbent/vaxultrix/42bsd-net.tar.bz2 is a virgin install of 4.2BSD on an RA81 complete with an ini and bootloader file, ready to go. I just added the DEUNA driver and recompiled the kernel based on my local setup. It was tested with the most recent version of the vax780 simulator from git, I have no idea if it will work on any other version. Adding the driver was actually fairly easy. I found the original 4.2BSD driver on google groups: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/net.unix/qqCxhYWQPtI/c7Ptc1mjQ9sJ . This is the direct ancestor of the driver from 4.3BSD as well as Ultrix. It did not need any changes to compile, just an update to /usr/sys/conf/files.vax and an addition to the kernel config file. Enjoy! -Henry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsteve at superglobalmegacorp.com Tue Jul 15 08:46:35 2014 From: jsteve at superglobalmegacorp.com (Jason Stevens) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:46:35 +0800 Subject: [Simh] 4.2BSD with networking on a VAX 11/780 Message-ID: <0F0B9BFC06289346B88512B91E55670D2F4F@EXCHANGE> Glad you could reproduce it... although I did this years ago.. Finding the driver in Google groups was a godsend, since it was pretty useless without networking. Years ago I built a few things for 4.2 to make it feel a little more modern, although to be honest the UWSIC build of 4.3BSD is so much more useful. I have tap files of the following binary packages: gcc-1.21.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 dungeon-2.5.6.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 flex-2.5.4.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 gcc-1.42.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 bison-1.25.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 hack-1.0.3.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 gzip-1.2.4.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 gcc-1.27.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 which are available here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bsd42/files/Package%20Tapes/4.2%20BSD/ And if you look around the project files, I have quite a bit built out for more platforms as well. I couldn't get an IRC client to build to save my life, but on 4.3 it was pretty trivial. I'd avoid RENO, it really is quite unstable when you push it hard. Jason _____ From: Henry Bent [mailto:hbent at oberlin.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 3:11 PM To: simh at trailing-edge.com Subject: [Simh] 4.2BSD with networking on a VAX 11/780 Hi all, As part of ongoing efforts with a different project I set up a 4.2BSD install on a vax780 sim with networking support. After I did it I realized that I wasn't sure it had ever been done on SIMH before, so I wanted to let folks know that it's possible. All I've tested so far is the ftp client, but I was able to download files from a machine on the local subnet as well as a machine on the larger internet. If you want to try it out, http://occs.cs.oberlin.edu/~hbent/vaxultrix/42bsd-net.tar.bz2 is a virgin install of 4.2BSD on an RA81 complete with an ini and bootloader file, ready to go. I just added the DEUNA driver and recompiled the kernel based on my local setup. It was tested with the most recent version of the vax780 simulator from git, I have no idea if it will work on any other version. Adding the driver was actually fairly easy. I found the original 4.2BSD driver on google groups: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/net.unix/qqCxhYWQPtI/c7Ptc1mjQ9sJ . This is the direct ancestor of the driver from 4.3BSD as well as Ultrix. It did not need any changes to compile, just an update to /usr/sys/conf/files.vax and an addition to the kernel config file. Enjoy! -Henry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ttmrichter at gmail.com Wed Jul 16 21:09:40 2014 From: ttmrichter at gmail.com (Michael Richter) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 09:09:40 +0800 Subject: [Simh] Seeking silly utility Message-ID: I had a utility a long time ago that would render data as an ASCII rendition of paper tape or cards. I can't for the life of me remember what the utility was called, though, or where I got it from. Does anybody else here perhaps recall the name of the utility (and even better where I could get it from)? -- "Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot." --Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the "don't be evil" mantra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clemc at ccc.com Wed Jul 16 21:12:05 2014 From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 21:12:05 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Seeking silly utility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: UNIX - they were called ppt and bcd. If you look on Warren's PUPS and TUHS archives, I suspect you will find the sources. Clem On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Michael Richter wrote: > I had a utility a long time ago that would render data as an ASCII > rendition of paper tape or cards. I can't for the life of me remember what > the utility was called, though, or where I got it from. Does anybody else > here perhaps recall the name of the utility (and even better where I could > get it from)? > > -- > "Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions > of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese > people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot." > --Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the "don't be evil" mantra. > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ttmrichter at gmail.com Wed Jul 16 22:24:50 2014 From: ttmrichter at gmail.com (Michael Richter) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 10:24:50 +0800 Subject: [Simh] Seeking silly utility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And there's the penny that dropped. Contained in the package "bsdgames" for those who may be interested. On 17 July 2014 09:12, Clem Cole wrote: > UNIX - they were called ppt and bcd. > If you look on Warren's PUPS and TUHS archives, I suspect you will find > the sources. > > Clem > > > On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Michael Richter > wrote: > >> I had a utility a long time ago that would render data as an ASCII >> rendition of paper tape or cards. I can't for the life of me remember what >> the utility was called, though, or where I got it from. Does anybody else >> here perhaps recall the name of the utility (and even better where I could >> get it from)? >> >> -- >> "Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions >> of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese >> people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot." >> --Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the "don't be evil" mantra. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Simh mailing list >> Simh at trailing-edge.com >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh >> > > -- "Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot." --Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the "don't be evil" mantra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ttmrichter at gmail.com Wed Jul 16 23:30:55 2014 From: ttmrichter at gmail.com (Michael Richter) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:30:55 +0800 Subject: [Simh] Seeking silly utility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is an interesting utility: covers both 5-bit and 8-bit code. And it gives the option of graphical output. https://github.com/NF6X/papertape On 17 July 2014 10:24, Michael Richter wrote: > And there's the penny that dropped. > > Contained in the package "bsdgames" for those who may be interested. > > > On 17 July 2014 09:12, Clem Cole wrote: > >> UNIX - they were called ppt and bcd. >> If you look on Warren's PUPS and TUHS archives, I suspect you will find >> the sources. >> >> Clem >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Michael Richter >> wrote: >> >>> I had a utility a long time ago that would render data as an ASCII >>> rendition of paper tape or cards. I can't for the life of me remember what >>> the utility was called, though, or where I got it from. Does anybody else >>> here perhaps recall the name of the utility (and even better where I could >>> get it from)? >>> >>> -- >>> "Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the >>> discussions of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the >>> Chinese people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot." >>> --Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the "don't be evil" >>> mantra. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Simh mailing list >>> Simh at trailing-edge.com >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh >>> >> >> > > > -- > "Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions > of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese > people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot." > --Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the "don't be evil" mantra. > -- "Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot." --Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the "don't be evil" mantra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhialto at falu.nl Thu Jul 17 02:52:57 2014 From: rhialto at falu.nl (Rhialto) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 08:52:57 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Seeking silly utility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140717065257.GD7511@falu.nl> On Thu 17 Jul 2014 at 10:24:50 +0800, Michael Richter wrote: > Contained in the package "bsdgames" for those who may be interested. Current NetBSD has them too, in /usr/games. -Olaf. -- ___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert -- The Doctor: No, 'eureka' is Greek for \X/ rhialto/at/xs4all.nl -- 'this bath is too hot.' -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbglaw at lug-owl.de Sun Jul 20 20:12:26 2014 From: jbglaw at lug-owl.de (Jan-Benedict Glaw) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 02:12:26 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage Message-ID: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> Hi! I just attended the GNU Tools Cauldron 2014 meeting, where we discussed to use Simh for testing produced code for VAX and PDP processors. While Simh isn't The Real Thing, it would probably work quite well. On a first glance, there are some issues that I'd like to discuss. First of all, a given testcase needs to be loaded. (Usually, this would be a small binary calling abort() or returning with zero from main(). We would just supply a fake libc that sets r0 to zero / nonzero and calls HLT.) Here's the first problem: The PDP11 simulator seems to LOAD a file with kind of a load address -- content --- load address -- content ... scheme, while the VAX simulator loads a raw byte. Instead of these ad-hoc formats, our impression is that it would be nice to have an ELF and/or a.out loader for a static binary. Either a minimal one, or one using libelf. Would a patch for this be accepted? An alternate route could be to put some helper scripts and converter programs together that build up the proper LOADable files. A second issue I found is that the remote telnet port isn't serviced unless the simulator is actually running. It would be quite cool to expose it's capabilities even earlier: The final intention is to interface it with GDB as a debugger. In this setup, GDB would see Simh as something like a "probe" or "accessor" to a (real) VAX system, like remote debugging for some other development boards is done today. Thanks, JBG -- Jan-Benedict Glaw jbglaw at lug-owl.de +49-172-7608481 Signature of: GDB has a 'break' feature; why doesn't it have 'fix' too? the second : -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From Mark at infocomm.com Mon Jul 21 18:24:05 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:24:05 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage In-Reply-To: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> References: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Sunday, July 20, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote: > I just attended the GNU Tools Cauldron 2014 meeting, where we discussed to > use Simh for testing produced code for VAX and PDP processors. While Simh > isn't The Real Thing, it would probably work quite well. > > On a first glance, there are some issues that I'd like to discuss. > First of all, a given testcase needs to be loaded. (Usually, this would be a small > binary calling abort() or returning with zero from main(). We would just > supply a fake libc that sets r0 to zero / nonzero and calls HLT.) > > Here's the first problem: The PDP11 simulator seems to LOAD a file with > kind of a load address -- content --- load address -- content ... > scheme, while the VAX simulator loads a raw byte. Instead of these ad-hoc > formats, our impression is that it would be nice to have an ELF and/or a.out > loader for a static binary. Either a minimal one, or one using libelf. Would a > patch for this be accepted? Changes which implemented: sim> LOAD -A a.out.binaryfile and/or sim> LOAD -E elf.binaryfile if you do this, then you should consider the inverse operations as well: sim> DUMP -A a.out.binaryfile and/or sim> DUMP -E elf.binaryfile these would be accepted for the VAX and PDP simulators as long as it worked on all the simh host platforms and therefore didn't depend on an external library. Depending on an external library would probably be extra tricky due to the endian-independent memory reference model in the simulators anyway. The license should be consistent with the standard language which is at the header of scp.c, etc. > An alternate route could be to put some helper > scripts and converter programs together that build up the proper LOADable > files. That could work for you without any adjustments to simh code. The effort should be similar but may leverage other libraries . > A second issue I found is that the remote telnet port isn't serviced unless the > simulator is actually running. It would be quite cool to expose it's capabilities > even earlier: The final intention is to interface it with GDB as a debugger. In > this setup, GDB would see Simh as something like a "probe" or "accessor" to a > (real) VAX system, like remote debugging for some other development > boards is done today. One of the envisioned goals of the existing REMOTE CONSOLE support was to facilitate a generic means of possibly implementing simulator specific blinken-lights front panels. GDB could certainly be considered a case in this domain. The use of a simulator in such a way would certainly require specific setup conditions for it to work at all. If GDB was really going to be the driving force the simulator startup would have to be configured to support this and several other accommodations/extended behaviors would probably be necessary (handling simh break point processing via a remote console quickly comes to mind). We can explore this and other details if you want to move down that path. - Mark From bqt at softjar.se Wed Jul 23 08:11:21 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:11:21 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <53C2168F.5000505@softjar.se> References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <53C1F3DD.4020908@softjar.se> <53C1F58E.4080002@softjar.se> <53C2168F.5000505@softjar.se> Message-ID: <53CFA669.8080903@softjar.se> Finally had a few minutes to look at this. Congratulations, Henry. You actually found a bug in simh. Fix attached. Mark, could you please commit this? Also, I noticed a bunch of warnings from some printf in pdp11_dmc.c, which I did not do anything about. I grabbed the code from today, so I suspect you or someone else will fix those soon anyway. Johnny On 2014-07-13 07:18, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On 2014-07-13 05:01, Henry Bent wrote: >> Here you go: >> http://occs.cs.oberlin.edu/~hbent/vaxultrix/boot.gz > > Thanks. I'll see if I have some time to look at it today. > > Johnny > >> >> >> -Henry >> >> >> On 12 July 2014 22:57, Johnny Billquist > > wrote: >> >> On 2014-07-13 04:52, Henry Bent wrote: >> >> Sure, I'll work on getting an Ultrix image in a usable state so >> that I >> can upload it. >> >> >> Actually, thinking about it, it should be enough with just the boot >> file that you are using. >> >> Johnny >> >> >> -Henry >> >> >> On 12 July 2014 22:50, Johnny Billquist > >> >> wrote: >> >> On 2014-07-13 04:19, Henry Bent wrote: >> >> Cool, thanks. >> >> I figured out what's going on. The standalone programs >> are running, >> they just aren't displaying any input or output after >> the first >> character is printed. So if I do this: >> >> -- >> sim> load -o boot 0 >> sim> run 2 >> >> -- >> and then blindly type "ra(0,0)vmunix", it boots! >> >> >> [...] >> >> Hmm hmm. I suspect I might know what is going on there. I'd >> have to >> test and play around some to verify, though. The console >> I/O on the >> 86x0 machines are a bit special, and I wouldn't be >> surprised if >> there were some issues in simh related to that. >> >> Mark, can we get some trace of all reads and writes to the >> registers >> related to the console? (There are four logical devices >> addressed on >> the 86x0 machines through the same CSRs.) >> >> Henry, if you could get such information logged, we could >> probably >> fix this pretty fast. Or else if you could just provide me >> with the >> files, I could test this myself as well. I don't have an >> old Ultrix >> image around, though. >> >> Johnny >> >> >> -- >> Ultrix V2.2 System #2: Wed Nov 18 01:14:13 EST 1987 >> real mem = 8388608 >> avail mem = 6888448 >> using 34 buffers containing 278528 bytes of memory >> VAX 8600, serial no. 1234, hardware level = 7 >> IO adapter 0 at address 0x20080000 is an SBI adapter >> uba0 at address 0x20006000 >> uda0 at uba0 >> uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 >> ra0 at uq0 slave 0 >> de0 at uba0 csr 174510 vec 120, ipl 15 >> mba0 at address 0x20012000 >> ht0 at mba0 drive 0 >> tu0 at ht0 slave 0 >> boot device not found >> root device? >> -- >> >> And I can then interact with the console, characters >> are displayed >> normally, etc. >> >> -Henry >> >> >> On 12 July 2014 19:33, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm >> >> > >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark >> Pizzolato wrote: >> > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist >> >> > >> >> >>> wrote: >> > > >> > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info >> Comm wrote: >> > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory >> Smelosky >> wrote: >> > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >>> Well, that at least did something >> different. >> > >>> >> > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 >> > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe >> > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio >> > >>> >> > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off >> the last >> character >> of its >> > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way >> related to >> the other >> console >> > >>> problems. >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same >> issue...along with not >> actually booting from >> > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. >> > > >> > > The last character output in a message just >> prior to >> executing >> a HALT >> > > instruction is not surprising since the >> simulator >> implements a >> delay >> > > (as a number of instructions executed) from >> when the >> data is put in >> > > the output register prior to generating the >> completion >> interrupt/status. >> > > The halt instruction gets executed before >> the delay >> number of >> > > instructions have completed. Even if that was >> 'fixed', nothing >> > > operational would change. The reason the >> message has been >> > > generated will still exist. >> >> The latest github code will no longer drop the last >> character output >> just prior to executing a HALT instruction which >> returns to the >> "sim> " prompt. >> >> Like I said above, nothing else changes though. >> >> - Mark >> ___________________________________________________ >> >> Simh mailing list >> Simh at trailing-edge.com >> __> >> > > __>__> >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.____com/mailman/listinfo/simh >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus >> || on a psychedelic trip >> email: bqt at softjar.se >> > || >> >> Reading murder books >> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - >> B. Idol >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus >> || on a psychedelic trip >> email: bqt at softjar.se || >> Reading murder books >> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol >> >> > > -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol -------------- next part -------------- *** simh-master/VAX/vax860_stddev.c Thu Jul 17 19:04:40 2014 --- simh-fix/VAX/vax860_stddev.c Wed Jul 23 14:06:10 2014 *************** *** 55,62 **** #define TXCS_V_TEN 16 /* Transmitter en */ #define TXCS_M_TEN 0xF #define TXCS_TEN (TXCS_M_TEN << TXCS_V_TEN) ! #define TXCS_RD (CSR_DONE + CSR_IE + TXCS_TEN + TXCS_IDC) /* terminal output */ ! #define TXCS_WR (CSR_IE + TXCS_TEN) #define ID_CT 0 /* console terminal */ #define ID_RS 1 /* remote services */ #define ID_EMM 2 /* environmental monitoring module */ --- 55,62 ---- #define TXCS_V_TEN 16 /* Transmitter en */ #define TXCS_M_TEN 0xF #define TXCS_TEN (TXCS_M_TEN << TXCS_V_TEN) ! #define TXCS_RD (CSR_DONE + CSR_IE + TXCS_TEN + TXCS_IDC + TXCS_WMN) /* Readable bits */ ! #define TXCS_WR (CSR_IE) /* Writeable bits */ #define ID_CT 0 /* console terminal */ #define ID_RS 1 /* remote services */ #define ID_EMM 2 /* environmental monitoring module */ *************** *** 493,506 **** void txcs_wr (int32 data) { ! tto_csr = (tto_csr & ~TXCS_WR) | (data & TXCS_WR); ! if (data & TXCS_WMN) /* updating mask? */ ! tto_update_int (); ! if ((data & CSR_IE) == 0) tto_int = 0; ! else if ((tto_csr & (CSR_DONE + CSR_IE)) == CSR_DONE) tto_int = 1; ! return; } void txdb_wr (int32 data) --- 493,508 ---- void txcs_wr (int32 data) { ! tto_csr = (tto_csr & ~TXCS_WR) | (data & TXCS_WR); /* Write new bits. */ ! if (data & TXCS_WMN) { /* Updating enable mask? */ ! tto_csr = (tto_csr & ~TXCS_TEN) | (data & TXCS_TEN); /* Yes. Modify enable mask. */ ! tto_update_int (); /* This can change interrupt requests... */ ! } ! if ((data & CSR_IE) == 0) tto_int = 0; ! else if ((tto_csr & (CSR_DONE + CSR_IE)) == CSR_DONE) tto_int = 1; ! return; } void txdb_wr (int32 data) From macro at linux-mips.org Wed Jul 23 13:40:32 2014 From: macro at linux-mips.org (Maciej W. Rozycki) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:40:32 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage In-Reply-To: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> References: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > I just attended the GNU Tools Cauldron 2014 meeting, where we discussed to > > use Simh for testing produced code for VAX and PDP processors. While Simh > > isn't The Real Thing, it would probably work quite well. > > > > On a first glance, there are some issues that I'd like to discuss. > > First of all, a given testcase needs to be loaded. (Usually, this > > would be a small binary calling abort() or returning with zero from > > main(). We would just supply a fake libc that sets r0 to zero / > > nonzero and calls HLT.) > > > > Here's the first problem: The PDP11 simulator seems to LOAD a file > > with kind of a load address -- content --- load address -- content ... > > scheme, while the VAX simulator loads a raw byte. Instead of these > > ad-hoc formats, our impression is that it would be nice to have an ELF > > and/or a.out loader for a static binary. Either a minimal one, or one > > using libelf. Would a patch for this be accepted? > > Changes which implemented: > sim> LOAD -A a.out.binaryfile > and/or > sim> LOAD -E elf.binaryfile > > if you do this, then you should consider the inverse operations as well: > sim> DUMP -A a.out.binaryfile > and/or > sim> DUMP -E elf.binaryfile > > these would be accepted for the VAX and PDP simulators as long as it > worked on all the simh host platforms and therefore didn't depend on an > external library. Depending on an external library would probably be > extra tricky due to the endian-independent memory reference model in the > simulators anyway. Libelf is widely available, any system that had to do anything with SVR4 (where this file format has originated from) will have it. A free implementation is also available: http://www.mr511.de/software/english.html and the *BSD systems have their replacement too. If your host doesn't have a binary readily available (that'd only be more exotic ones I suppose, such as MinGW perhaps), then you should be able to build your own. Libelf is endianness-agnostic and will present ELF file data structures in the host endianness regardless of what the endianness of the file being processed is, in fact one of the purposes of the library is to relieve the app using it from having to byte-swap data explicitly. It's been a while since I poked at libelf and I don't remember offhand whether it does the swapping thing automatically on opening a file; either way there are function calls provided in the API to do that explicitly, both ways (file->host & host->file). You need this data in the host endianness as you'll be making calculations on them to process the file. Raw loadable segments are of course passed unchanged and all DEC processors are little-endian I believe so I don't see a problem here. Of course you can do without libelf, especially in loading an executable only, where what you need to process are only the file header and the program headers (the latter providing information about loadable segments present in the file), and no such more complicated stuff as symbols or relocations. If dumping is implemented, then using the library will be especially beneficial, as it'll sort out some of the details needed to produce a valid ELF image itself. However in my opinion avoiding code duplication has a value in itself, starting from that's extensive, and then including all the low-level processing stuff. I think writing Yet Another ELF Loader would be more appropriate for a bare-iron environment, such as for a boot loader included with a console monitor or a piece of firmware of similar kind, whereas in a fully-hosted environment it makes sense to use what the environment already provides rather than reinventing the wheel. Of course you may disagree and may have arguments against this approach; I'd be happy to discuss them. > > An alternate route could be to put some helper > > scripts and converter programs together that build up the proper LOADable > > files. > > That could work for you without any adjustments to simh code. The > effort should be similar but may leverage other libraries . The drawback might be some performance loss, depending on what the existing interface already provides, e.g. does it handle gaps in executables and fill BSS segments itself or do they have to be loaded as all-zeros explicitly? This might matter if the simulator was to be wired to automatic toolchain testing, as it's already done with QEMU for example, where tens of thousands of test cases are loaded in a sequence and the download time is one factor. To say nothing of the overhead of invoking helper software needed to convert between formats, e.g. `objcopy'. You need to pass the entry point somehow too; does the existing interface do it? In any case that'd have to be extracted from the ELF executable somehow, possibly with `readelf' or `objdump', further postprocessed to get the value only, that looks like another performance degradation to me. ELF has been designed with easy loading in mind, trying to avoid mistakes learnt with earlier executable formats. Therefore I think it makes sense to avoid any format conversion and load it directly. > > A second issue I found is that the remote telnet port isn't serviced > > unless the simulator is actually running. It would be quite cool to > > expose it's capabilities even earlier: The final intention is to > > interface it with GDB as a debugger. In this setup, GDB would see Simh > > as something like a "probe" or "accessor" to a (real) VAX system, like > > remote debugging for some other development boards is done today. > > One of the envisioned goals of the existing REMOTE CONSOLE support was > to facilitate a generic means of possibly implementing simulator > specific blinken-lights front panels. GDB could certainly be considered > a case in this domain. > > The use of a simulator in such a way would certainly require specific > setup conditions for it to work at all. If GDB was really going to be > the driving force the simulator startup would have to be configured to > support this and several other accommodations/extended behaviors would > probably be necessary (handling simh break point processing via a remote > console quickly comes to mind). We can explore this and other details > if you want to move down that path. For GDB control a Remote Serial Protocol aka RSP stub will have to be implemented. At the very minimum it'll have to support commands (called packets in RSP-speak) to peek and poke at target registers and memory, and to execute, single-step, interrupt execution, and to set and remove breakpoints (GDB can set software breakpoints itself by patching code with whatever instruction is used by the architecture, but with a bare-iron target such as a simulator is that'd have to be an ICE/JTAG kind of a breakpoint instruction rather than a user breakpoint instruction, such as BPT in the case of the VAX processor, that has to be left alone for use by software run within the simulator rather than for use by the simulator itself). Maciej From khandy21yo at gmail.com Wed Jul 23 14:39:55 2014 From: khandy21yo at gmail.com (Kevin Handy) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:39:55 -0600 Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage In-Reply-To: References: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: I think that adding all of this complexity to simh to handle one load type might be a bit overkill. After adding elf support, you will probably need to add VMS, RT11, RSX, etc... support. I think that it would be better to create external utilities that would convert the onject format to a simpler format that "load" understands. If you then had simh call that utility a part of a "load" command (popen?) you would be able to create any number of loaders with little increase in the complexity and size of simh. It would also make the utilities availabe outside of simh itself. It would probably also be much simpler to debug Tools like this might be of interest to others outside of simh. For example, someone might want to be able to load an elf binary on real hardware without an OS.. Just my thoughts on the matter. On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Maciej W. Rozycki wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > > I just attended the GNU Tools Cauldron 2014 meeting, where we > discussed to > > > use Simh for testing produced code for VAX and PDP processors. While > Simh > > > isn't The Real Thing, it would probably work quite well. > > > > > > On a first glance, there are some issues that I'd like to discuss. > > > First of all, a given testcase needs to be loaded. (Usually, this > > > would be a small binary calling abort() or returning with zero from > > > main(). We would just supply a fake libc that sets r0 to zero / > > > nonzero and calls HLT.) > > > > > > Here's the first problem: The PDP11 simulator seems to LOAD a file > > > with kind of a load address -- content --- load address -- content ... > > > scheme, while the VAX simulator loads a raw byte. Instead of these > > > ad-hoc formats, our impression is that it would be nice to have an ELF > > > and/or a.out loader for a static binary. Either a minimal one, or one > > > using libelf. Would a patch for this be accepted? > > > > Changes which implemented: > > sim> LOAD -A a.out.binaryfile > > and/or > > sim> LOAD -E elf.binaryfile > > > > if you do this, then you should consider the inverse operations as well: > > sim> DUMP -A a.out.binaryfile > > and/or > > sim> DUMP -E elf.binaryfile > > > > these would be accepted for the VAX and PDP simulators as long as it > > worked on all the simh host platforms and therefore didn't depend on an > > external library. Depending on an external library would probably be > > extra tricky due to the endian-independent memory reference model in the > > simulators anyway. > > Libelf is widely available, any system that had to do anything with SVR4 > (where this file format has originated from) will have it. A free > implementation is also available: > > http://www.mr511.de/software/english.html > > and the *BSD systems have their replacement too. If your host doesn't > have a binary readily available (that'd only be more exotic ones I > suppose, such as MinGW perhaps), then you should be able to build your > own. > > Libelf is endianness-agnostic and will present ELF file data structures > in the host endianness regardless of what the endianness of the file being > processed is, in fact one of the purposes of the library is to relieve the > app using it from having to byte-swap data explicitly. It's been a while > since I poked at libelf and I don't remember offhand whether it does the > swapping thing automatically on opening a file; either way there are > function calls provided in the API to do that explicitly, both ways > (file->host & host->file). You need this data in the host endianness as > you'll be making calculations on them to process the file. Raw loadable > segments are of course passed unchanged and all DEC processors are > little-endian I believe so I don't see a problem here. > > Of course you can do without libelf, especially in loading an executable > only, where what you need to process are only the file header and the > program headers (the latter providing information about loadable segments > present in the file), and no such more complicated stuff as symbols or > relocations. If dumping is implemented, then using the library will be > especially beneficial, as it'll sort out some of the details needed to > produce a valid ELF image itself. > > However in my opinion avoiding code duplication has a value in itself, > starting from that's extensive, and then including all the > low-level processing stuff. I think writing Yet Another ELF Loader would > be more appropriate for a bare-iron environment, such as for a boot loader > included with a console monitor or a piece of firmware of similar kind, > whereas in a fully-hosted environment it makes sense to use what the > environment already provides rather than reinventing the wheel. > > Of course you may disagree and may have arguments against this approach; > I'd be happy to discuss them. > > > > An alternate route could be to put some helper > > > scripts and converter programs together that build up the proper > LOADable > > > files. > > > > That could work for you without any adjustments to simh code. The > > effort should be similar but may leverage other libraries . > > The drawback might be some performance loss, depending on what the > existing interface already provides, e.g. does it handle gaps in > executables and fill BSS segments itself or do they have to be loaded as > all-zeros explicitly? This might matter if the simulator was to be wired > to automatic toolchain testing, as it's already done with QEMU for > example, where tens of thousands of test cases are loaded in a sequence > and the download time is one factor. To say nothing of the overhead of > invoking helper software needed to convert between formats, e.g. > `objcopy'. > > You need to pass the entry point somehow too; does the existing interface > do it? In any case that'd have to be extracted from the ELF executable > somehow, possibly with `readelf' or `objdump', further postprocessed to > get the value only, that looks like another performance degradation to me. > > ELF has been designed with easy loading in mind, trying to avoid mistakes > learnt with earlier executable formats. Therefore I think it makes sense > to avoid any format conversion and load it directly. > > > > A second issue I found is that the remote telnet port isn't serviced > > > unless the simulator is actually running. It would be quite cool to > > > expose it's capabilities even earlier: The final intention is to > > > interface it with GDB as a debugger. In this setup, GDB would see Simh > > > as something like a "probe" or "accessor" to a (real) VAX system, like > > > remote debugging for some other development boards is done today. > > > > One of the envisioned goals of the existing REMOTE CONSOLE support was > > to facilitate a generic means of possibly implementing simulator > > specific blinken-lights front panels. GDB could certainly be considered > > a case in this domain. > > > > The use of a simulator in such a way would certainly require specific > > setup conditions for it to work at all. If GDB was really going to be > > the driving force the simulator startup would have to be configured to > > support this and several other accommodations/extended behaviors would > > probably be necessary (handling simh break point processing via a remote > > console quickly comes to mind). We can explore this and other details > > if you want to move down that path. > > For GDB control a Remote Serial Protocol aka RSP stub will have to be > implemented. At the very minimum it'll have to support commands (called > packets in RSP-speak) to peek and poke at target registers and memory, and > to execute, single-step, interrupt execution, and to set and remove > breakpoints (GDB can set software breakpoints itself by patching code with > whatever instruction is used by the architecture, but with a bare-iron > target such as a simulator is that'd have to be an ICE/JTAG kind of a > breakpoint instruction rather than a user breakpoint instruction, such as > BPT in the case of the VAX processor, that has to be left alone for use by > software run within the simulator rather than for use by the simulator > itself). > > Maciej > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From litt at ieee.org Wed Jul 23 15:03:44 2014 From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:03:44 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage In-Reply-To: References: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: <53D00710.7030307@ieee.org> On 23-Jul-14 14:39, Kevin Handy wrote: > I think that adding all of this complexity to simh to handle one load > type might be a bit overkill. After adding elf support, you will > probably need to add VMS, RT11, RSX, etc... support. > > I think that it would be better to create external utilities that > would convert the onject format to a simpler format that "load" > understands. If you then had simh call that utility a part of a "load" > command (popen?) you would be able to create any number of loaders > with little increase in the complexity and size of simh. It would also > make the utilities availabe outside of simh itself. It would probably > also be much simpler to debug > > Tools like this might be of interest to others outside of simh. For > example, someone might want to be able to load an elf binary on real > hardware without an OS.. > I agree. The SimH loaders are designed to load the native format bootstraps. Getting ELF right is out of scope for SimH - first, because it isn't portable (SimH runs on VMS, Windows and other environments that don't have libelf). Second, because to do it right, you have to handle shared libraries and deal with the fact that memory management is OFF - as may also be traps and exception handling in the emulated machine. I know the current request was for 'a static binary', but the next request (probably from someone else) will be to enhance it... The core mission of SimH is to preserve the software that ran on these machines - other applications are secondary. This request really is application specific and should be done as external utilities. This is much simpler, as you need only make the utilities work in your testcase development environment. I'm fine with using SimH as a reference machine, although it is designed to emulate implementations, not architectures. That is, it is bug-for-bug compatible with, e.g. VAX models, but does not implement the VAX architecture of the SRM. For testcase control, what's wrong with expect scripts? If you insist on developing these patches, at least make sure that they are conditionally compiled OFF by default with as much of the code as possible in separate sourcefiles. And be sure that you are willing to sign up to maintain them, long after your current project ends... Really, external tools are the right way to deal with this. > Just my thoughts on the matter. > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Maciej W. Rozycki > > wrote: > > On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > > I just attended the GNU Tools Cauldron 2014 meeting, where we > discussed to > > > use Simh for testing produced code for VAX and PDP processors. > While Simh > > > isn't The Real Thing, it would probably work quite well. > > > > > > On a first glance, there are some issues that I'd like to > discuss. > > > First of all, a given testcase needs to be loaded. (Usually, this > > > would be a small binary calling abort() or returning with zero > from > > > main(). We would just supply a fake libc that sets r0 to zero / > > > nonzero and calls HLT.) > > > > > > Here's the first problem: The PDP11 simulator seems to LOAD > a file > > > with kind of a load address -- content --- load address -- > content ... > > > scheme, while the VAX simulator loads a raw byte. Instead of these > > > ad-hoc formats, our impression is that it would be nice to > have an ELF > > > and/or a.out loader for a static binary. Either a minimal one, > or one > > > using libelf. Would a patch for this be accepted? > > > > Changes which implemented: > > sim> LOAD -A a.out.binaryfile > > and/or > > sim> LOAD -E elf.binaryfile > > > > if you do this, then you should consider the inverse operations > as well: > > sim> DUMP -A a.out.binaryfile > > and/or > > sim> DUMP -E elf.binaryfile > > > > these would be accepted for the VAX and PDP simulators as long as it > > worked on all the simh host platforms and therefore didn't > depend on an > > external library. Depending on an external library would > probably be > > extra tricky due to the endian-independent memory reference > model in the > > simulators anyway. > > Libelf is widely available, any system that had to do anything > with SVR4 > (where this file format has originated from) will have it. A free > implementation is also available: > > http://www.mr511.de/software/english.html > > and the *BSD systems have their replacement too. If your host doesn't > have a binary readily available (that'd only be more exotic ones I > suppose, such as MinGW perhaps), then you should be able to build your > own. > > Libelf is endianness-agnostic and will present ELF file data > structures > in the host endianness regardless of what the endianness of the > file being > processed is, in fact one of the purposes of the library is to > relieve the > app using it from having to byte-swap data explicitly. It's been > a while > since I poked at libelf and I don't remember offhand whether it > does the > swapping thing automatically on opening a file; either way there are > function calls provided in the API to do that explicitly, both ways > (file->host & host->file). You need this data in the host > endianness as > you'll be making calculations on them to process the file. Raw > loadable > segments are of course passed unchanged and all DEC processors are > little-endian I believe so I don't see a problem here. > > Of course you can do without libelf, especially in loading an > executable > only, where what you need to process are only the file header and the > program headers (the latter providing information about loadable > segments > present in the file), and no such more complicated stuff as symbols or > relocations. If dumping is implemented, then using the library > will be > especially beneficial, as it'll sort out some of the details needed to > produce a valid ELF image itself. > > However in my opinion avoiding code duplication has a value in > itself, > starting from that's extensive, and then including all the > low-level processing stuff. I think writing Yet Another ELF > Loader would > be more appropriate for a bare-iron environment, such as for a > boot loader > included with a console monitor or a piece of firmware of similar > kind, > whereas in a fully-hosted environment it makes sense to use what the > environment already provides rather than reinventing the wheel. > > Of course you may disagree and may have arguments against this > approach; > I'd be happy to discuss them. > > > > An alternate route could be to put some helper > > > scripts and converter programs together that build up the > proper LOADable > > > files. > > > > That could work for you without any adjustments to simh code. The > > effort should be similar but may leverage other libraries . > > The drawback might be some performance loss, depending on what the > existing interface already provides, e.g. does it handle gaps in > executables and fill BSS segments itself or do they have to be > loaded as > all-zeros explicitly? This might matter if the simulator was to > be wired > to automatic toolchain testing, as it's already done with QEMU for > example, where tens of thousands of test cases are loaded in a > sequence > and the download time is one factor. To say nothing of the > overhead of > invoking helper software needed to convert between formats, e.g. > `objcopy'. > > You need to pass the entry point somehow too; does the existing > interface > do it? In any case that'd have to be extracted from the ELF > executable > somehow, possibly with `readelf' or `objdump', further > postprocessed to > get the value only, that looks like another performance > degradation to me. > > ELF has been designed with easy loading in mind, trying to avoid > mistakes > learnt with earlier executable formats. Therefore I think it > makes sense > to avoid any format conversion and load it directly. > > > > A second issue I found is that the remote telnet port isn't > serviced > > > unless the simulator is actually running. It would be quite > cool to > > > expose it's capabilities even earlier: The final intention is to > > > interface it with GDB as a debugger. In this setup, GDB would > see Simh > > > as something like a "probe" or "accessor" to a (real) VAX > system, like > > > remote debugging for some other development boards is done today. > > > > One of the envisioned goals of the existing REMOTE CONSOLE > support was > > to facilitate a generic means of possibly implementing simulator > > specific blinken-lights front panels. GDB could certainly be > considered > > a case in this domain. > > > > The use of a simulator in such a way would certainly require > specific > > setup conditions for it to work at all. If GDB was really going > to be > > the driving force the simulator startup would have to be > configured to > > support this and several other accommodations/extended behaviors > would > > probably be necessary (handling simh break point processing via > a remote > > console quickly comes to mind). We can explore this and other > details > > if you want to move down that path. > > For GDB control a Remote Serial Protocol aka RSP stub will have to be > implemented. At the very minimum it'll have to support commands > (called > packets in RSP-speak) to peek and poke at target registers and > memory, and > to execute, single-step, interrupt execution, and to set and remove > breakpoints (GDB can set software breakpoints itself by patching > code with > whatever instruction is used by the architecture, but with a bare-iron > target such as a simulator is that'd have to be an ICE/JTAG kind of a > breakpoint instruction rather than a user breakpoint instruction, > such as > BPT in the case of the VAX processor, that has to be left alone > for use by > software run within the simulator rather than for use by the simulator > itself). > > Maciej > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5159 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From Mark at infocomm.com Thu Jul 24 19:10:46 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 16:10:46 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage In-Reply-To: References: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E64@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Maciej W. Rozycki wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > > A second issue I found is that the remote telnet port isn't > > > serviced unless the simulator is actually running. It would be quite > > > cool to expose it's capabilities even earlier: The final intention > > > is to interface it with GDB as a debugger. In this setup, GDB would > > > see Simh as something like a "probe" or "accessor" to a (real) VAX > > > system, like remote debugging for some other development boards is > done today. > > > > One of the envisioned goals of the existing REMOTE CONSOLE support was > > to facilitate a generic means of possibly implementing simulator > > specific blinken-lights front panels. GDB could certainly be > > considered a case in this domain. > > > > The use of a simulator in such a way would certainly require specific > > setup conditions for it to work at all. If GDB was really going to be > > the driving force the simulator startup would have to be configured to > > support this and several other accommodations/extended behaviors would > > probably be necessary (handling simh break point processing via a > > remote console quickly comes to mind). We can explore this and other > > details if you want to move down that path. > > For GDB control a Remote Serial Protocol aka RSP stub will have to be > implemented. At the very minimum it'll have to support commands (called > packets in RSP-speak) to peek and poke at target registers and memory, and > to execute, single-step, interrupt execution, and to set and remove > breakpoints (GDB can set software breakpoints itself by patching code with > whatever instruction is used by the architecture, but with a bare-iron target > such as a simulator is that'd have to be an ICE/JTAG kind of a breakpoint > instruction rather than a user breakpoint instruction, such as BPT in the case > of the VAX processor, that has to be left alone for use by software run within > the simulator rather than for use by the simulator itself). This is good information. I've reviewed what this involves and the current simh REMOTE CONSOLE capabilities do need some extension to support the minimal set of abilities that a GDB RSP stub would require. I'll look at working on these changes so that someone else can tackle the actual implementation of the RSP stub(s) for each of the respective VAX and PDP11 simulators if they desire (the implementation would leverage a TCP circuit to a simh REMOTE CONSOLE). Any use of a simh simulator in a test framework will require any number of test related configuration steps to initiate the simulator to serve this purpose. Invoking external elf/a.out transformation tools as part of those configuration steps should be relatively trivial. So, as a starting point I would think that external tools would be a sufficient solution to the problem. Once those details have been worked out, if the external tools are a prohibitive bottleneck to the problem alternate approaches can be explored. If someone wants to implement a simh GDB RSP stub, please create an issue at https://github.com/simh/simh/issues to track this activity and work out any integration/implementation details. - Mark Pizzolato From legalize at xmission.com Mon Jul 28 12:40:49 2014 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 10:40:49 -0600 Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage In-Reply-To: References: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: In article , "Maciej W. Rozycki" writes: > Libelf is widely available, any system that had to do anything with SVR4 > (where this file format has originated from) will have it. What about Windows? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book The Computer Graphics Museum The Terminals Wiki Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) From clemc at ccc.com Mon Jul 28 15:21:18 2014 From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 15:21:18 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage In-Reply-To: References: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: A supposedly crude hack I'm told, but LBW (http://lbw.sourceforge.net/) has support for Elf on windows. Never tried it [or had any desire] On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Richard wrote: > > In article , > "Maciej W. Rozycki" writes: > > > Libelf is widely available, any system that had to do anything with SVR4 > > (where this file format has originated from) will have it. > > What about Windows? > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book < > http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline> > The Computer Graphics Museum > The Terminals Wiki > Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From captainkirk359 at gmail.com Tue Jul 1 02:39:48 2014 From: captainkirk359 at gmail.com (Christian Gauger-Cosgrove) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 02:39:48 -0400 Subject: [Simh] 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 Message-ID: For reasons of "I had nothing better to do" and "Why not?" I've decided to try and bring up Quasijarus on the 11/730 simulator. And I am having absolutely no luck. I cannot boot the TS11 tape drive, trying to do so gives one "Command not allowed" attempting to boot the first TU81 (TQ0) starts loading boot code from VMB.EXE, and then halts, hitting continue I get "%BOOT-F-NOFAC, Boot driver requests dynamic storage. Allocation routines not present" which loops infinitely. I can boot the console TU58 ("boot td"), but while it does actually do something, but it tries to load a boot file off of the console tape, I've tried with both Brad Parker's console TU58, and the TU58 that comes with the Quasijarus distribution. Trying to "boot CPU" as in the microVAX 3900 is "Command not allowed". I've even tried the VAX 8200 console RL02 that comes with Quasijarus, it halts with a "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate BOOT fil" (unless set to conhalt whereupon it loops trying to boot the RL and failing). Keying in the TS11 bootstrap by hand results in the sim giving a "Reboot request failed, PC: 0000023E (HALT)". So, at present, I'm stuck. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get this to work. I know that Quasijarus will work on the 11/730, but I cannot get to the point of running the standalone format or copy programs on the 730. Any possible advice might be helpful. As a postscript, I have also tried to run the install on the VAX780 simulator, and the results are... at best very strange, at worst non-functional. For example: "fload copy" followed by "run 200" (to get the standalone copy program off of the console floppy that comes with Quasijarus) does load the standalone copy program. However, all inputs result in: Known devices are:  `�P (That is, after the "Known devices are:" line is some spaces random-looking ASCII control character, spaces, and more random looking ASCII.) The same happens when attempting to run the standalone boot off the console floppy. However, it only allows one to specify the device if and only if you have tried to run the standalone copy earlier, and then attempted to enter a device into copy, otherwise it always starts up with: Boot : /vmunix With no ability to break into it and change it. Kind regards, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove -- Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove STCKON08DS0 Contact information available upon request. From b4 at gewt.net Tue Jul 1 05:56:16 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 05:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2014, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > The same happens when attempting to run the standalone boot off the > console floppy. However, it only allows one to specify the device if > and only if you have tried to run the standalone copy earlier, and > then attempted to enter a device into copy, otherwise it always starts > up with: > Boot > : /vmunix > With no ability to break into it and change it. > I _think_ something involving r5 would allow you to override that. How to deposit a 1 in to r5 I can't tell you off-band, though. > > Kind regards, > Christian Gauger-Cosgrove > > -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From b4 at gewt.net Tue Jul 1 06:09:17 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 06:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2014, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > > I've even tried the VAX 8200 console RL02 that comes with Quasijarus, > it halts with a "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate BOOT fil" (unless set to > conhalt whereupon it loops trying to boot the RL and failing). > Attach it to CS instead. It's the "console RL" after all. sim> boot cs Loading boot code from vmb.exe Please remove the volume "" from the console device. > > So, at present, I'm stuck. I cannot for the life of me figure out how > to get this to work. I know that Quasijarus will work on the 11/730, > but I cannot get to the point of running the standalone format or copy > programs on the 730. > The VAX-11/780's FLOAD command is very helpful for stuff like this...wish the console RL for the 8600 implemented the same...LS for the console device would help, too. > > Kind regards, > Christian Gauger-Cosgrove > > -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From b4 at gewt.net Tue Jul 1 07:33:54 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 07:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote: Progress! losim> fload copy 0 sim> run 2 From: tms(0,0,1) To: ra(0,0,0) ra0: unlabeled Copy completed: 308 records copied Reboot request failed, PC: 0006B372 (HALT) sim> b rq You need to SET CPU CONHALT. The code seems to hijack some console routines ad trap HALT or something. Still working on getting BOOT to let me specify the boot device for the kernel...got it to work before. -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From b4 at gewt.net Tue Jul 1 07:47:56 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 07:47:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote: > On Tue, 1 Jul 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > Progress! > Here's a transcript of success on the 780: VAX 11/780 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: f961a98b sim> set rq dis sim> set rl dis sim> set hk dis sim> at cs floppy CS: buffering file in memory sim> at tq 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0c.tap sim> at rp0 quasijarus.rp06 sim> set cpu conhalt sim> fload copy 0 sim> run 2 From: tms(0,0,1) To: hp(0,0) Copy completed: 308 records copied Reboot request failed, PC: 00000001 (HALT) sim> reset sim> fload boot 0 sim> dep r10 0 sim> dep r10 0 sim> dep r10 1 sim> dep r11 0 sim> run 2 Boot : hp(0,0)/vmunix 326312+104440+130352 start 0x23b8 [...] tu0 at ht0 slave 0 tu1 at ht0 slave 1 root device? hp0a WARNING: clock gained 136 days -- CHECK AND RESET THE DATE! Remember the SET TTI 7b and SET TTO 7b! -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From Mark at infocomm.com Tue Jul 1 14:41:11 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 11:41:11 -0700 Subject: [Simh] 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A5E@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Jun 30, 2014 11:58 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > On Tue, 1 Jul 2014, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > > > The same happens when attempting to run the standalone boot off the > > console floppy. However, it only allows one to specify the device if > > and only if you have tried to run the standalone copy earlier, and > > then attempted to enter a device into copy, otherwise it always starts > > up with: > > Boot > > : /vmunix > > With no ability to break into it and change it. > > > > I _think_ something involving r5 would allow you to override that. How to > deposit a 1 in to r5 I can't tell you off-band, though. When necessary to change the R5 value, is is done on the simh 730, 750, 780 and 8600 boot commands with: sim> boot /r5:hexval - Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From esmithmail at gmail.com Tue Jul 1 16:22:00 2014 From: esmithmail at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 15:22:00 -0500 Subject: [Simh] Booting a real VAX from an emulated one Message-ID: <7798475819597802938@unknownmsgid> I apologize in advance .. I may well be posting this in the wrong forum. If so, if someone would be so kind as to redirect me offline I would appreciate it. I have a uVAX 3900 I rescued about 10 years ago. It was headed for a dumpster. It has two 300 meg drives and 16M of RAM, one non-functional tape drive, and a qbus card I have a 10 meg network adapter plugged into. It had VMS v 5.something on it I believe at the time. Over the years I (inadvertently) mangled that installation trying to learn VMS and ended up putting an instance of OpenBSD on it. I did this by running mopd on another unix box and booting the VAX over the network. I would like to install VMS on it again, but not sure how to get it there. The tape drive doesn't pull tape anymore. I'm thinking you VMS experts know a way I can use my SIMH VAX VMS emulation to boot the real VAX from? I'm thinking it is possible to boot VMS this way, and/or do a VMS installation this way, correct? Again, I realize this isn't a purely SIMH post, so if more appropriate to contact me offline, please do. Any direct help or just pointers to an online resource would be much appreciated. Thanks! Eric KD5UWL From oboguev at yahoo.com Tue Jul 1 17:44:56 2014 From: oboguev at yahoo.com (Sergey Oboguev) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 14:44:56 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Booting a real VAX from an emulated one In-Reply-To: <7798475819597802938@unknownmsgid> References: <7798475819597802938@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <1404251096.40397.YahooMailNeo@web184302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Set up your virtual node as a VAXcluster master node with self-sufficient quorum and as MOP server with NCP. Boot physical uVAX 3900 via Ethernet as a diskless satellite cluster node(>>> B XQ). Then image the local drive with BACKUP. ________________________________ From: Eric Smith To: "simh at trailing-edge.com" Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 1:22 PM Subject: [Simh] Booting a real VAX from an emulated one I apologize in advance .. I may well be posting this in the wrong forum.  If so, if someone would be so kind as to redirect me offline I would appreciate it. I have a uVAX 3900 I rescued about 10 years ago.  It was headed for a dumpster.  It has two 300 meg drives and 16M of RAM, one non-functional tape drive, and a qbus card I have a 10 meg network adapter plugged into. It had VMS v 5.something on it I believe at the time.  Over the years I (inadvertently) mangled that installation trying to learn VMS and ended up putting an instance of OpenBSD on it.  I did this by running mopd on another unix box and booting the VAX over the network. I would like to install VMS on it again, but not sure how to get it there.  The tape drive doesn't pull tape anymore. I'm thinking you VMS experts know a way I can use my SIMH VAX VMS emulation to boot the real VAX from? I'm thinking it is possible to boot VMS this way, and/or do a VMS installation this way, correct? Again, I realize this isn't a purely SIMH post, so if more appropriate to contact me offline, please do.  Any direct help or just pointers to an online resource would be much appreciated. Thanks! Eric KD5UWL _______________________________________________ Simh mailing list Simh at trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com Tue Jul 1 18:01:47 2014 From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Robert Jarratt) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 23:01:47 +0100 Subject: [Simh] Booting a real VAX from an emulated one In-Reply-To: <7798475819597802938@unknownmsgid> References: <7798475819597802938@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <0c0f01cf9578$0e3c4a00$2ab4de00$@ntlworld.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing- > edge.com] On Behalf Of Eric Smith > Sent: 01 July 2014 21:22 > To: simh at trailing-edge.com > Subject: [Simh] Booting a real VAX from an emulated one > > I apologize in advance .. I may well be posting this in the wrong forum. If so, if > someone would be so kind as to redirect me offline I would appreciate it. > > I have a uVAX 3900 I rescued about 10 years ago. It was headed for a > dumpster. It has two 300 meg drives and 16M of RAM, one non-functional tape > drive, and a qbus card I have a 10 meg network adapter plugged into. > > It had VMS v 5.something on it I believe at the time. Over the years I > (inadvertently) mangled that installation trying to learn VMS and ended up > putting an instance of OpenBSD on it. I did this by running mopd on another > unix box and booting the VAX over the network. > > I would like to install VMS on it again, but not sure how to get it there. The > tape drive doesn't pull tape anymore. > > I'm thinking you VMS experts know a way I can use my SIMH VAX VMS > emulation to boot the real VAX from? I'm thinking it is possible to boot VMS this > way, and/or do a VMS installation this way, correct? > > Again, I realize this isn't a purely SIMH post, so if more appropriate to contact > me offline, please do. Any direct help or just pointers to an online resource > would be much appreciated. > > Thanks! > Eric KD5UWL > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh I do this regularly. Don't have a lot of time at the moment to explain, but the basic thing to do is create a cluster on SIMH, then add your real machine as a satellite (you need to know it's MAC address). Hope that gives you some pointers. Regards Rob From esmithmail at gmail.com Tue Jul 1 20:40:45 2014 From: esmithmail at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 19:40:45 -0500 Subject: [Simh] Booting a real VAX from an emulated one In-Reply-To: <1404251096.40397.YahooMailNeo@web184302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <7798475819597802938@unknownmsgid> <1404251096.40397.YahooMailNeo@web184302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7156697331252147161@unknownmsgid> Thank you to everyone who replied to me both on the reflector and directly. This is all very helpful - thank you very much. Eric KD5UWL From captainkirk359 at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 08:38:30 2014 From: captainkirk359 at gmail.com (Christian Gauger-Cosgrove) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 08:38:30 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A5E@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: Bah, I just noticed shortly after sending the message that it was only pointing at Mark and Cory not the list reflector. That has been rectified none the less. Apologies, and have a great day. Regards, Christian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove Date: 2 July 2014 08:36 Subject: Re: [Simh] 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 To: Mark Pizzolato , b4 at gewt.net Many thanks to Cory for figuring out the magic needed to get the Quasijarus standalone boot to work on the 780. It makes sense now that I look at it. Although I'm having some difficulty getting past the initial boot-label-disk-and-restore-root phase. Are there any copies of the VAX-11/780 console diskette out there (the original DEC one)? Labelling the RP07 I installed to with the hpboot / boothp bootblock(s) doesn't result in a bootable disk (BOOT RP0 doesn't work), so I'd like to try it the way the Quasijarus manual says it should be done (create a modified console floppy that boots the RP07 disk). In other news, I have had some assistance getting Quasijarus up and running on the 11/730 --- which is where my end goal is in this endeavour. If one extracts the standalone boot and copy from the srcsys.tar archive they can be loaded into the 730's memory via LOAD. (At location 0, of course, and then starting the sim from 2.) But I have run into some difficulty with the RB730 simulation. There might be a bug in it, I am uncertain, but on the initial boot of the system it gets stuck in an infinite loop of "idc0: lost interrupt". I've packaged up a copy of my simulator config, as well as the relevant Quasijarus files: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69943308/Quasijarus-730beta.zip (12.7MB) To copy from the tape on the 11/730: sim>load copy 0 sim>run 2 copy ts(0,1) To: rb(0,1) Copy completed: 308 records copied Exception in interrupt or exception, PC: D4500000 sim> And to boot the freshly copied R80: sim> reset sim> d r10 0 sim> d r10 0 sim> d r10 1 sim> d r11 0 sim> load boot 0 sim> run 2 Boot : rb(0,1)/vmunix 326312+104440+130352 start 0x23b8 4.3 BSD Quasijarus UNIX #3: Sat Feb 14 20:31:03 PST 2004 root at luthien.Harhan.ORG:/nbsd/usr/src/sys/GENERIC real mem = 5242880 SYSPTSIZE limits number of buffers to 134 avail mem = 4145152 using 134 buffers containing 366592 bytes of memory VAX 11/730, ucode rev 123 mcr0 at tr0 uba0 at tr3 idc0 at uba0 csr 175606 vec 250, ipl 15 rb0 at idc0 slave 0 rb1 at idc0 slave 1 zs0 at uba0 csr 172520 vec 224, ipl 15 ts0 at zs0 slave 0 dz0 at uba0 csr 160100 vec 300, ipl 15 dz1 at uba0 csr 160110 vec 310, ipl 15 lp0 at uba0 csr 177514 vec 200, ipl 14 root device? rb0* <--- Enter "rb0*" here. idc0: lost interrupt <--- This error repeats infinitely. So, I'm not quite sure what's wrong with the RB730, but at least one is able to partially get QUasijarus up and running on the 11/730. Kind regards, Christian -- Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove STCKON08DS0 Contact information available upon request. -- Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove STCKON08DS0 Contact information available upon request. From b4 at gewt.net Wed Jul 2 08:44:52 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 08:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] Fwd: 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A5E@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jul 2014, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > Bah, I just noticed shortly after sending the message that it was only > pointing at Mark and Cory not the list reflector. That has been > rectified none the less. > Whoops. ;) [snipping] > Many thanks to Cory for figuring out the magic needed to get the > Quasijarus standalone boot to work on the 780. It makes sense now that > I look at it. Although I'm having some difficulty getting past the > initial boot-label-disk-and-restore-root phase. Are there any copies > of the VAX-11/780 console diskette out there (the original DEC one)? > Labelling the RP07 I installed to with the hpboot / boothp > bootblock(s) doesn't result in a bootable disk (BOOT RP0 doesn't > work), so I'd like to try it the way the Quasijarus manual says it > should be done (create a modified console floppy that boots the RP07 > disk). > I don't have any images of the 11/780 console floppy...but I DO have a VMS 3.x console floppy. I think diag floppies are up on ftp dot trailing-edge, too. I DO however have images of the 11/750 diag floppies. > > In other news, I have had some assistance getting Quasijarus up and > running on the 11/730 --- which is where my end goal is in this > endeavour. If one extracts the standalone boot and copy from the > srcsys.tar archive they can be loaded into the 730's memory via LOAD. > (At location 0, of course, and then starting the sim from 2.) But I > have run into some difficulty with the RB730 simulation. There might > be a bug in it, I am uncertain, but on the initial boot of the system > it gets stuck in an infinite loop of "idc0: lost interrupt". > Try disabling all other units for the controller, and all other unused controllers. > > I've packaged up a copy of my simulator config, as well as the > relevant Quasijarus files: > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69943308/Quasijarus-730beta.zip > (12.7MB) > Downloading now. > ts0 at zs0 slave 0 > dz0 at uba0 csr 160100 vec 300, ipl 15 > dz1 at uba0 csr 160110 vec 310, ipl 15 > lp0 at uba0 csr 177514 vec 200, ipl 14 > root device? rb0* <--- Enter "rb0*" here. > idc0: lost interrupt <--- This error repeats infinitely. > The only person I know with an 11/730 has a currently non-functional one...or it lacks a drive. One of the two...forget which so I can't confirm if it's a SIMH or 4.3 bug. > > So, I'm not quite sure what's wrong with the RB730, but at least one > is able to partially get QUasijarus up and running on the 11/730. > I'll go fiddle with it and respond with my findings. > Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove > STCKON08DS0 > Contact information available upon request. > > > -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 09:57:01 2014 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 09:57:01 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A5E@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Cory Smelosky wrote: >> root device? rb0* <--- Enter "rb0*" here. >> idc0: lost interrupt <--- This error repeats infinitely. > > The only person I know with an 11/730 has a currently non-functional > one...or it lacks a drive. I have an 11/730 but it hasn't been fired up in over 10 years. It's in storage and I wouldn't be able to do anything with it until after summer is over. Looking at this, however, I am reminded of chasing down a bug with SIMH over 15 years ago with the RP03 and 2BSD. It had to do with the interrupt probe routine that runs as the OS is first booting wanting to force an interrupt of each device controller, but rp.c not properly emulating the (poorly-documented) behavior of the real hardware when a read-only register was written to. Perhaps this is something similar? > Boot >: rb(0,1)/vmunix > 326312+104440+130352 start 0x23b8 . . . > idc0 at uba0 csr 175606 vec 250, ipl 15 > rb0 at idc0 slave 0 . . . > root device? rb0* <--- Enter "rb0*" here. > idc0: lost interrupt <--- This error repeats infinitely. What's there up to the "lost interrupt" looks quite reasonable. I haven't grabbed the 4.3 sources to look at its driver, but I'd be interested in knowing what code is firing that emits that message and what conditions cause that to happen. I'd also look closely at whatever code in the driver is setting up the I/O and what bits in the emulated CSR are getting twiddled. I would be especially suspicious if it did things differently than VMS was doing it. Source for, say, the VMS 4.4 RB730 driver might be easier to find on fische than online, but I did spot the hardware docs on Bitsavers (http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/vax/730/EK-RB730-TD-001_VAX-11_730_IDC_Technical_Description_Sep82.pdf) One should be able to attach an RA81 to the emulated 11/730, run from that, then use the running system to debug problems with the RB730 code. It would at least allow a controlled poking at the driver, and even adding driver debug code. -ethan From b4 at gewt.net Wed Jul 2 13:49:25 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 13:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] sigma simulator Message-ID: Hello, The unfinished sigma simulator dumps core on quit...which I find interesting. Will look in to finding out /why/. Not that the simulator really works otherwise, mind...;) -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 11:54:34 2014 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 11:54:34 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A5E@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Cory Smelosky wrote: >>> root device? rb0* <--- Enter "rb0*" here. >>> idc0: lost interrupt <--- This error repeats infinitely. > > One should be able to attach an RA81 to the emulated 11/730, run from > that, then use the running system to debug problems with the RB730 > code. It would at least allow a controlled poking at the driver, and > even adding driver debug code. OK... so getting caught up on this, I see that device debugging support is already included in recent versions of SIMH. Very nice. I've enabled it ("set rb debug") and gone through the boot process described previously and there aren't that many register writes up to the "lost interrupt" point... root device? rb0* DBG(319687933)> RB REG: reg 0 write, value = 100C6 DBG(319687934)> RB REG: reg 3 write, value = 250000 DBG(319687940)> RB REG: reg 0 write, value = 46 DBG(319687957)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 4000046 DBG(319688004)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 4000046 DBG(319688051)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 4000046 DBG(319688090)> RB CMD: Seek, CYL=37, TRK=0, SECT=0 DBG(319688090)> RB CMD: Done, INT DBG(319688098)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 50100C6 DBG(319688104)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 50100C6 DBG(319688104)> RB REG: reg 0 write, value = 50000C6 DBG(319688105)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 40000C6 DBG(319688140)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 40000C6 DBG(319688143)> RB REG: reg 0 write, value = C0 DBG(319688440)> RB CMD: Done, INT DBG(319688558)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 50000C1 DBG(319688561)> RB REG: reg 0 write, value = C0 idc0: lost interrupt DBG(523421810)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 40000C1 DBG(523421813)> RB REG: reg 0 write, value = C0 idc0: lost interrupt DBG(729448369)> RB REG: reg 0 read, value = 40000C1 DBG(729448372)> RB REG: reg 0 write, value = C0 idc0: lost interrupt I haven't traced out every bit of every transaction there (I see the disk address (DAR) write, but no bus address (BAR) or byte count (BCR) writes yet), but once it's in the loop, the CSR is reading back R80+CRDY+IE+DRDY (R80 selected, controller ready, interrupts enabled, and drive ready) and the BSD driver is writing into it a "Get status" function (010 in F2:F0) and clearly not seeing what it is expecting. So from thee top, I see the BSD driver put in a Seek command, the SIMH rb handler process that seek and interrupt the BSD driver, which then fiddles a few things (ATTN0 and IR) to acknowledge the interrupt, then sends a status request, which appears to trigger the second interrupt, but the BSD driver must not be seeing what it likes because it loops on sending that status request every few seconds. Probably time to hit the idc driver in 4.3BSD to see what _it_ thinks should be happening. -ethan From b4 at gewt.net Fri Jul 4 20:50:41 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 20:50:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] Followup to SIMH MicroVAX II breaking on OS X Message-ID: Hello, I've gotten it to not deadlock and get through diagnostics now. It works fine with DEBUG=1. sim> show ver MicroVAX II (KA630) simulator V4.0-0 Beta Simulator Framework Capabilities: 64b data 64b addresses Ethernet Packet transport:PCAP:UDP Idle/Throttling support is available Virtual Hard Disk (VHD) support Asynchronous I/O support Host Platform: Compiler: GCC 4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 6.0 (clang-600.0.34.2) Simulator Compiled: Jul 4 2014 at 20:49:46 Memory Access: Little Endian Memory Pointer Size: 64 bits Large File (>2GB) support SDL Video support: No Video Support OS clock tick size: 2ms OS: Darwin melanie.gimme-sympathy.org 14.0.0 Darwin Kernel Version 14.0.0: Sat May 24 01:15:10 PDT 2014; root:xnu-2738.0.0.0.5~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64 git commit id: f961a98b -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From Mark at infocomm.com Fri Jul 4 20:57:02 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 17:57:02 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Followup to SIMH MicroVAX II breaking on OS X Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A5F@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Jul 4, 2014 2:52 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > Hello, > > I've gotten it to not deadlock and get through diagnostics now. It works > fine with DEBUG=1. > > sim> show ver > MicroVAX II (KA630) simulator V4.0-0 Beta > Simulator Framework Capabilities: > 64b data > 64b addresses > Ethernet Packet transport:PCAP:UDP > Idle/Throttling support is available > Virtual Hard Disk (VHD) support > Asynchronous I/O support > Host Platform: > Compiler: GCC 4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 6.0 > (clang-600.0.34.2) > Simulator Compiled: Jul 4 2014 at 20:49:46 > Memory Access: Little Endian > Memory Pointer Size: 64 bits > Large File (>2GB) support > SDL Video support: No Video Support > OS clock tick size: 2ms > OS: Darwin melanie.gimme-sympathy.org 14.0.0 Darwin Kernel > Version 14.0.0: Sat May 24 01:15:10 PDT 2014; > root:xnu-2738.0.0.0.5~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64 > > git commit id: f961a98b You have reproduced my working case. There is nothing to fix here. Can you reproduce the failing case and provide make output when building the failing case? What happens with the case you've got when you build without DEBUG=1? If it fails, please provide the make output. - Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Jul 7 16:14:51 2014 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 13:14:51 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Bug fixes... Message-ID: <20140707131451.2ca166bb@asrock.bcwi.net> Hi Bob, I compiled V39 with all the "interim" updates and got errors in the PDP11 and PDP10 modules. The first (PDP11) was an easy fix - a missing file def. in the "makefile". The second had two errors (looked like typos) in the "pdp10_rp.c" code. I fixed both (attached). The diffs are below. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ diff makefile.orig makefile 418c418 < ${PDP11D}/pdp11_rq.c ${PDP11D}/pdp11_tq.c ${PDP11D}/pdp11_pclk.c \ --- > ${PDP11D}/pdp11_rq.c $(PDP11D)/pdp11_rs.c ${PDP11D}/pdp11_tq.c > ${PDP11D}/pdp11_pclk.c \ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- diff pdp10_rp.c.orig pdp10_rp.c 811,812c811,812 < if (drv_tab[dtype].ctrl == RM_CTRL) { /* RM? */ < rp_set_er (ER1_ILF, drv); /* not supported */ --- > if (drv_tab[dtype].ctrl == MBA_RM_CTRL) { /* RM? */ > set_rper (ER1_ILF, drv); --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Regards, Lyle -- Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: makefile Type: application/octet-stream Size: 29348 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pdp10_rp.c Type: text/x-c++src Size: 59042 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Jul 7 16:42:54 2014 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:42:54 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A5E@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:38 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > In other news, I have had some assistance getting Quasijarus up and > running on the 11/730... > root device? rb0* <--- Enter "rb0*" here. > idc0: lost interrupt <--- This error repeats infinitely. So I was able to completely reproduce these results and I've done some digging into 4.3BSD's idc.c as well as simh's vax730_rb.c... by disassembling idc.o from the distro files and comparing it to the live in-memory contents of the running simulation, I've run across something interesting... First of all, I was able to confirm the in-memory location of the variable 'idcdebug' at 0x80063a5c, which lets me turn idc.c's debugging on and off. When I did this, I got a surprise - mixed in with a lot of debugging output was the rest of the startup and a "#" prompt. I am able to run commands, look around the disk, etc., only as long as idcdebug is non-zero. As soon as I turn it back to 0, the "lost interrupt" loop returns (but then turning debugging back on does not seem to unstick it - once stuck, it stays stuck). Specifically what I did was follow the recipe right up to the "root device?" prompt, then ^E to gain access to the "sim>" prompt, then "deposit 80063a5c 1" and "go". There follows a flurry of debugging statements ending in "#". Curiously, "idcdebug" only appears in the printd macro (as "if(idcdebug)printf"), so there must be some side-effect since the only direct linkage would be additional reads of the rb730 registers for some of the printf statements, and the indirect effects are to add additional cycles between operations (defeating a race condition?) I can capture the driver debugging output, but most of the output from a working machine is not useful for debugging - we already have a good idea of what should be happening when things are going well. That's all I've got for now, if someone wants to take it and run with it. -ethan From Mark at infocomm.com Mon Jul 7 17:25:28 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 14:25:28 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Fwd: 4.3BSD Quasijarus0c on the VAX-11/730 Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A69@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Jul 7, 2014 10:44 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:38 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove > wrote: > > In other news, I have had some assistance getting Quasijarus up and > > running on the 11/730... > > root device? rb0* <--- Enter "rb0*" here. > > idc0: lost interrupt <--- This error repeats infinitely. > > So I was able to completely reproduce these results and I've done some > digging into 4.3BSD's idc.c as well as simh's vax730_rb.c... by > disassembling idc.o from the distro files and comparing it to the live > in-memory contents of the running simulation, I've run across > something interesting... > > First of all, I was able to confirm the in-memory location of the > variable 'idcdebug' at 0x80063a5c, which lets me turn idc.c's > debugging on and off. When I did this, I got a surprise - mixed in > with a lot of debugging output was the rest of the startup and a "#" > prompt. I am able to run commands, look around the disk, etc., only > as long as idcdebug is non-zero. As soon as I turn it back to 0, the > "lost interrupt" loop returns (but then turning debugging back on does > not seem to unstick it - once stuck, it stays stuck). > > Specifically what I did was follow the recipe right up to the "root > device?" prompt, then ^E to gain access to the "sim>" prompt, then > "deposit 80063a5c 1" and "go". There follows a flurry of debugging > statements ending in "#". > > Curiously, "idcdebug" only appears in the printd macro (as > "if(idcdebug)printf"), so there must be some side-effect since the > only direct linkage would be additional reads of the rb730 registers > for some of the printf statements, and the indirect effects are to add > additional cycles between operations (defeating a race condition?) > > I can capture the driver debugging output, but most of the output from > a working machine is not useful for debugging - we already have a good > idea of what should be happening when things are going well. > > That's all I've got for now, if someone wants to take it and run with it. A useful debugging technique/tool is to turn on simh instruction history and to use simh breakpoints. The great thing about this is that without regard to the amount of simh debugging output that is produced or the contemplation time spent while stepping through the driver code the apparent timing the driver is counting on should not change and thus the problem should still appear. Give this a shot and see what you learn. - Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hbent at oberlin.edu Mon Jul 7 19:50:46 2014 From: hbent at oberlin.edu (Henry Bent) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 19:50:46 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? Message-ID: How are standalone programs loaded and run on the 8600? On the 7x0 I can do "load -o boot 0" and "run 2" and that will run a standalone boot. When I do that in the 8600 sim I get a newline and then the program just loops forever. Alternately, does anyone know the right way to load bootblocks on an ra disk in Ultrix 1 or 2 so that I can boot off of the disk directly? Everything I've tried just ends up giving a "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate BOOT fil" message from vmb.exe. -Henry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at supnik.org Tue Jul 8 00:12:49 2014 From: bob at supnik.org (Bob Supnik) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 00:12:49 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Sigma simulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53BB6FC1.50008@supnik.org> I went back to look at it last week for the first time in six years. It certainly works well enough to run a whole bunch of diagnostics, according to the notes I left back in 2008. More documentation on the disk peripherals has surfaced in recent years, and some of them would need to be implemented to have a reasonable shot at running the OS. In addition, IIRC, the peripheral simulation is not as accurate as it needs to be, particularly on status codes and error conditions. I hope to get back to the Sigma in the fall, but in the meantime, feel free to work on it and fix any bugs you find. /Bob > ------------------------------ Message:2 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 > 13:49:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Cory Smelosky To: > simh at trailing-edge.com Subject: [Simh] sigma simulator Message-ID: > Content-Type: > TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Hello, The unfinished > sigma simulator dumps core on quit...which I find interesting. Will > look in to finding out /why/. Not that the simulator really works > otherwise, mind...;) From bqt at softjar.se Tue Jul 8 07:50:57 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:50:57 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> On 2014-07-08 01:50, Henry Bent wrote: > How are standalone programs loaded and run on the 8600? On the 7x0 I > can do "load -o boot 0" and "run 2" and that will run a standalone > boot. When I do that in the 8600 sim I get a newline and then the > program just loops forever. > > Alternately, does anyone know the right way to load bootblocks on an ra > disk in Ultrix 1 or 2 so that I can boot off of the disk directly? > Everything I've tried just ends up giving a "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate > BOOT fil" message from vmb.exe. VMB needs to have R5 set to specific values to boot Ultrix. If I remember right, bit 3 (0x8) needs to be set in R5 in order for VMB to just load the boot block from the device and start executing that instead of trying to look for specific files inside a Files-11 filesystem. But on a rel 86x0, you can also load other binaries from the console device, and just start them. For old versions of Ultrix, I seem to remember that this is what they did, before VMB gained the capability to boot from a boot block. Johnny From matt at 9track.net Tue Jul 8 20:31:40 2014 From: matt at 9track.net (Matt Burke) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2014 01:31:40 +0100 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> Message-ID: <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> On 08/07/2014 12:50, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On 2014-07-08 01:50, Henry Bent wrote: >> How are standalone programs loaded and run on the 8600? On the 7x0 I >> can do "load -o boot 0" and "run 2" and that will run a standalone >> boot. When I do that in the 8600 sim I get a newline and then the >> program just loops forever. >> >> Alternately, does anyone know the right way to load bootblocks on an ra >> disk in Ultrix 1 or 2 so that I can boot off of the disk directly? >> Everything I've tried just ends up giving a "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate >> BOOT fil" message from vmb.exe. > > VMB needs to have R5 set to specific values to boot Ultrix. > If I remember right, bit 3 (0x8) needs to be set in R5 in order for > VMB to just load the boot block from the device and start executing > that instead of trying to look for specific files inside a Files-11 > filesystem. > > But on a rel 86x0, you can also load other binaries from the console > device, and just start them. For old versions of Ultrix, I seem to > remember that this is what they did, before VMB gained the capability > to boot from a boot block. > The value 8 is correct for R5. To boot this in simh use: sim> b rq0 /r5:8 On a side note I think this flag is not required on later VAX system such as the MicroVAX II. The ROM code seems to work out what to do. 'load -o' is supported on the VAX 8600 so I suspect there is another issue. It could be a problem with the console device as I think someone has previously mentioned that there are some issues with my implementation (unless this been fixed now?) Matt From bqt at softjar.se Tue Jul 8 21:01:45 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2014 03:01:45 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> Message-ID: <53BC9479.40409@softjar.se> On 2014-07-09 02:31, Matt Burke wrote: > On 08/07/2014 12:50, Johnny Billquist wrote: >> On 2014-07-08 01:50, Henry Bent wrote: >>> How are standalone programs loaded and run on the 8600? On the 7x0 I >>> can do "load -o boot 0" and "run 2" and that will run a standalone >>> boot. When I do that in the 8600 sim I get a newline and then the >>> program just loops forever. >>> >>> Alternately, does anyone know the right way to load bootblocks on an ra >>> disk in Ultrix 1 or 2 so that I can boot off of the disk directly? >>> Everything I've tried just ends up giving a "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate >>> BOOT fil" message from vmb.exe. >> >> VMB needs to have R5 set to specific values to boot Ultrix. >> If I remember right, bit 3 (0x8) needs to be set in R5 in order for >> VMB to just load the boot block from the device and start executing >> that instead of trying to look for specific files inside a Files-11 >> filesystem. >> >> But on a rel 86x0, you can also load other binaries from the console >> device, and just start them. For old versions of Ultrix, I seem to >> remember that this is what they did, before VMB gained the capability >> to boot from a boot block. >> > > The value 8 is correct for R5. To boot this in simh use: > > sim> b rq0 /r5:8 > > On a side note I think this flag is not required on later VAX system > such as the MicroVAX II. The ROM code seems to work out what to do. > > 'load -o' is supported on the VAX 8600 so I suspect there is another > issue. It could be a problem with the console device as I think someone > has previously mentioned that there are some issues with my > implementation (unless this been fixed now?) I have played some with the simh 86x0 implementation, but I don't think I've checked much about the console device. But I don't think that should matter. Once you've loaded the binary from the console device, the console device isn't used any more on the real machine. Older versions of NetBSD used to boot that way, and you just loaded the boot file from the RL02, and started. And I seem to remember that it was started at address 2. But that of course depends on the boot image... And the boot image in turn knows how to read an FFS file system, and continued to load /vmunix from there (or whatever name for the kernel it was looking for). Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From Mark at infocomm.com Thu Jul 10 18:02:01 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:02:01 -0700 Subject: [Simh] sigma simulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592CD@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Wednesday, July 2, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > Hello, > > The unfinished sigma simulator dumps core on quit...which I find interesting. > Will look in to finding out /why/. > > Not that the simulator really works otherwise, mind...;) Fixed now. Also added makefile sections and Visual Studio Projects for sigma and alpha. Sigma and alpha aren't built unless they are explicitly mentioned on the make command line (they are not included in 'all' since they aren't finished). These are provided in case someone wants to work towards completing them. - Mark From b4 at gewt.net Thu Jul 10 18:03:55 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] sigma simulator In-Reply-To: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592CD@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592CD@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > On Wednesday, July 2, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Cory Smelosky wrote: >> Hello, >> >> The unfinished sigma simulator dumps core on quit...which I find interesting. >> Will look in to finding out /why/. >> >> Not that the simulator really works otherwise, mind...;) > > Fixed now. > Cool. > Also added makefile sections and Visual Studio Projects for sigma and alpha. Sigma and alpha aren't built unless they are explicitly mentioned on the make command line (they are not included in 'all' since they aren't finished). These are provided in case someone wants to work towards completing them. > That makes debugging + testing a little bit easier now. > - Mark > > > > > -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From hbent at oberlin.edu Thu Jul 10 18:10:33 2014 From: hbent at oberlin.edu (Henry Bent) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:10:33 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> Message-ID: Well, that at least did something different. sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 Loading boot code from vmb.exe %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console problems. I tried the standalone boot on the other VAX sims (microvax 1, 2, 3900, and rtvax1000) and they are all able to load the booter and take console input (I didn't actually try booting). This seems to point to there being a problem with the console on the 8600. Any tips for where I should look to narrow down where the problem might be? -Henry On 8 July 2014 20:31, Matt Burke wrote: > On 08/07/2014 12:50, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > On 2014-07-08 01:50, Henry Bent wrote: > >> How are standalone programs loaded and run on the 8600? On the 7x0 I > >> can do "load -o boot 0" and "run 2" and that will run a standalone > >> boot. When I do that in the 8600 sim I get a newline and then the > >> program just loops forever. > >> > >> Alternately, does anyone know the right way to load bootblocks on an ra > >> disk in Ultrix 1 or 2 so that I can boot off of the disk directly? > >> Everything I've tried just ends up giving a "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate > >> BOOT fil" message from vmb.exe. > > > > VMB needs to have R5 set to specific values to boot Ultrix. > > If I remember right, bit 3 (0x8) needs to be set in R5 in order for > > VMB to just load the boot block from the device and start executing > > that instead of trying to look for specific files inside a Files-11 > > filesystem. > > > > But on a rel 86x0, you can also load other binaries from the console > > device, and just start them. For old versions of Ultrix, I seem to > > remember that this is what they did, before VMB gained the capability > > to boot from a boot block. > > > > The value 8 is correct for R5. To boot this in simh use: > > sim> b rq0 /r5:8 > > On a side note I think this flag is not required on later VAX system > such as the MicroVAX II. The ROM code seems to work out what to do. > > 'load -o' is supported on the VAX 8600 so I suspect there is another > issue. It could be a problem with the console device as I think someone > has previously mentioned that there are some issues with my > implementation (unless this been fixed now?) > > Matt > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b4 at gewt.net Thu Jul 10 18:12:43 2014 From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > Well, that at least did something different. > > sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > Loading boot code from vmb.exe > %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > problems. > 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually booting from the console RL, floppy, et al. > I tried the standalone boot on the other VAX sims (microvax 1, 2, 3900, and > rtvax1000) and they are all able to load the booter and take console input > (I didn't actually try booting). This seems to point to there being a > problem with the console on the 8600. Any tips for where I should look to > narrow down where the problem might be? > > -Henry > -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects From Mark at infocomm.com Thu Jul 10 19:08:46 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 16:08:46 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D0@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > Well, that at least did something different. > > > > sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > > > The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > > messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > > problems. > > > > 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually booting from > the console RL, floppy, et al. The last character output in a message just prior to executing a HALT instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a delay (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in the output register prior to generating the completion interrupt/status. The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of instructions have completed. Even if that was 'fixed', nothing operational would change. The reason the message has been generated will still exist. As for direct support for booting an OS from the console media, the 8600 supports BOOT CS /R5:xx to boot from the console RL02. Other than that, VMB.EXE is actually performing the boot operation and I think that when I checked VMB didn't know how to boot from console floppies on a 780, but it can boot from the console TU58 on both the 730 and 750 (BOOT TD /R5:xx). > > I tried the standalone boot on the other VAX sims (microvax 1, 2, > > 3900, and > > rtvax1000) and they are all able to load the booter and take console > > input (I didn't actually try booting). This seems to point to there > > being a problem with the console on the 8600. Any tips for where I > > should look to narrow down where the problem might be? What media have you tested with on the other (qbus) VAX simulators? - Mark From bqt at softjar.se Thu Jul 10 20:00:17 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 02:00:17 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D0@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D0@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: <53BF2911.9000307@softjar.se> On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: >> >>> Well, that at least did something different. >>> >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio >>> >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console >>> problems. >>> >> >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually booting from >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing a HALT instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a delay (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in the output register prior to generating the completion interrupt/status. The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of instructions have completed. Even if that was 'fixed', nothing operational would change. The reason the message has been generated will still exist. > > As for direct support for booting an OS from the console media, the 8600 supports BOOT CS /R5:xx to boot from the console RL02. Other than that, VMB.EXE is actually performing the boot operation and I think that when I checked VMB didn't know how to boot from console floppies on a 780, but it can boot from the console TU58 on both the 730 and 750 (BOOT TD /R5:xx). Well, I used to boot NetBSD on "my" 8650 by direct booting without VMB, Here is the COM file: ------------ ! ! Load 'boot.' and boot NetBSD. ! ! 'ra' MSCP drive type boot to multi user mode ! ! SET SNAP ON ! Enable ERROR_HALT snapshots SET FBOX OFF ! System will turn on Fbox INIT ! SRM processor init UNJAM ! UNJAM SBIA's and enable master sbia interrupts INIT/PAMM ! INIT physical address memory map DEPOSIT CSWP 8 ! Turn off the cache - System will enable cache !DEPOSIT R10 9 ! 'ra' MSCP drive type - uba0 - drive 0 !DEPOSIT R11 0 ! Software boot flags (multi user mode) DEP R0 11 DEP R1 20006000 DEP R2 2013f468 DEP R3 F ! Unit number DEP R4 0 LOAD/START:0 BOOT. ! Load 'boot.' at memory location 0 START 60 ! Start 'boot.' at the address 60 ------------ But note, that is not not through VMB, so any discussions about R5 previously is not relevant here. Also, the start address is very much depending on the actual image loaded. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From Mark at infocomm.com Thu Jul 10 20:22:42 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 17:22:42 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > >> > >>> Well, that at least did something different. > >>> > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > >>> > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > >>> problems. > >>> > >> > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually booting from > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing a HALT instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a delay (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in the output register prior to generating the completion interrupt/status. The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of instructions have completed. Even if that was 'fixed', nothing operational would change. The reason the message has been generated will still exist. > > > > As for direct support for booting an OS from the console media, the 8600 supports BOOT CS /R5:xx to boot from the console RL02. Other than that, VMB.EXE is actually performing the boot operation and I think that when I checked VMB didn't know how to boot from console floppies on a 780, but it can boot from the console TU58 on both the 730 and 750 (BOOT TD /R5:xx). > > Well, I used to boot NetBSD on "my" 8650 by direct booting without VMB, > Here is the COM file: > > ------------ > ! > ! Load 'boot.' and boot NetBSD. > ! > ! 'ra' MSCP drive type boot to multi user mode > ! > ! > SET SNAP ON ! Enable ERROR_HALT snapshots > SET FBOX OFF ! System will turn on Fbox > INIT ! SRM processor init > UNJAM ! UNJAM SBIA's and enable master sbia interrupts > INIT/PAMM ! INIT physical address memory map > DEPOSIT CSWP 8 ! Turn off the cache - System will enable cache > > !DEPOSIT R10 9 ! 'ra' MSCP drive type - uba0 - drive 0 > !DEPOSIT R11 0 ! Software boot flags (multi user mode) > > DEP R0 11 > DEP R1 20006000 > DEP R2 2013f468 > DEP R3 F ! Unit number > DEP R4 0 > > LOAD/START:0 BOOT. ! Load 'boot.' at memory location 0 > START 60 ! Start 'boot.' at the address 60 > ------------ > > But note, that is not not through VMB, so any discussions about R5 > previously is not relevant here. Also, the start address is very much > depending on the actual image loaded. All of these things can still be done with the simh VAX simulators. The default BOOT command operations setup and use VMB since that was the most common operation across 'most' deployed systems. What is done within the BOOT command is very much what Johnny's COM file does (init register values as need, load and start VMB). - Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hbent at oberlin.edu Thu Jul 10 20:41:29 2014 From: hbent at oberlin.edu (Henry Bent) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:41:29 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D0@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D0@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: I got a console RL02 image from Quasijarus - the only one I could find easily - but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with it. All I get is this: -- sim> boot cs /r5:8 Loading boot code from vmb.exe Please remove the volume "" from the console device. Insert the first standalone system volume and enter "YES" when ready: -- But that's neither here nor there at this point. The 8600 doesn't seem to be able to run any standalone utilities - they all print one character to the console and then stop. For example, "copy" and "format": sim> load -o copy 0 sim> run 2 F sim> load -o format 0 sim> run 2 D While on any other vax simulator, I get: sim> load -o copy 0 sim> run 2 From: sim> load -o format 0 sim> run 2 Disk format/check utility Enable debugging (0=none, 1=bse, 2=ecc, 3=bse+ecc)? I haven't done any real testing of the qbus vax sims, I just verified that they could load and run standalone utilities. -Henry On 10 July 2014 19:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > > > Well, that at least did something different. > > > > > > sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > > Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > > %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > > > > > The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > > > messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > > > problems. > > > > > > > 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually booting > from > > the console RL, floppy, et al. > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing a HALT > instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a delay (as a > number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in the output > register prior to generating the completion interrupt/status. The halt > instruction gets executed before the delay number of instructions have > completed. Even if that was 'fixed', nothing operational would change. > The reason the message has been generated will still exist. > > As for direct support for booting an OS from the console media, the 8600 > supports BOOT CS /R5:xx to boot from the console RL02. Other than that, > VMB.EXE is actually performing the boot operation and I think that when I > checked VMB didn't know how to boot from console floppies on a 780, but it > can boot from the console TU58 on both the 730 and 750 (BOOT TD /R5:xx). > > > > I tried the standalone boot on the other VAX sims (microvax 1, 2, > > > 3900, and > > > rtvax1000) and they are all able to load the booter and take console > > > input (I didn't actually try booting). This seems to point to there > > > being a problem with the console on the 8600. Any tips for where I > > > should look to narrow down where the problem might be? > > What media have you tested with on the other (qbus) VAX simulators? > > - Mark > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From khandy21yo at gmail.com Thu Jul 10 21:28:02 2014 From: khandy21yo at gmail.com (khandy21yo) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 19:28:02 -0600 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? Message-ID: <3d5h391xnceh620ppak0dgdq.1405041709702@email.android.com> Might these umfinished operations cause problems? Unflushed disk buffers  during shutdown for example. -------- Original message -------- From Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm Date: 07/10/2014 5:08 PM (GMT-07:00) To Cory Smelosky ,Simh Cc simh at trailing-edge.com Subject Re: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > Well, that at least did something different. > > > > sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > > > The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > > messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > > problems. > > > > 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually booting from > the console RL, floppy, et al. The last character output in a message just prior to executing a HALT instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a delay (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in the output register prior to generating the completion interrupt/status.  The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of instructions have completed.  Even if that was 'fixed', nothing operational would change.  The reason the message has been generated will still exist. As for direct support for booting an OS from the console media, the 8600 supports BOOT CS /R5:xx to boot from the console RL02.  Other than that, VMB.EXE is actually performing the boot operation and I think that when I checked VMB didn't know how to boot from console floppies on a 780, but it can boot from the console TU58 on both the 730 and 750 (BOOT TD /R5:xx). > > I tried the standalone boot on the other VAX sims (microvax 1, 2, > > 3900, and > > rtvax1000) and they are all able to load the booter and take console > > input (I didn't actually try booting).  This seems to point to there > > being a problem with the console on the 8600.  Any tips for where I > > should look to narrow down where the problem might be? What media have you tested with on the other (qbus) VAX simulators? - Mark _______________________________________________ Simh mailing list Simh at trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bqt at softjar.se Thu Jul 10 21:59:29 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 03:59:29 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: <53BF4501.5030006@softjar.se> On 2014-07-11 02:22, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > >> > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. > > >>> > > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > >>> > > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > > >>> problems. > > >>> > > >> > > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually > booting from > > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > > > > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing a > HALT instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a > delay (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put > in the output register prior to generating the completion > interrupt/status. The halt instruction gets executed before the delay > number of instructions have completed. Even if that was 'fixed', > nothing operational would change. The reason the message has been > generated will still exist. > > > > > > As for direct support for booting an OS from the console media, the > 8600 supports BOOT CS /R5:xx to boot from the console RL02. Other than > that, VMB.EXE is actually performing the boot operation and I think that > when I checked VMB didn't know how to boot from console floppies on a > 780, but it can boot from the console TU58 on both the 730 and 750 (BOOT > TD /R5:xx). > > > > Well, I used to boot NetBSD on "my" 8650 by direct booting without VMB, > > Here is the COM file: > > > > ------------ > > ! > > ! Load 'boot.' and boot NetBSD. > > ! > > ! 'ra' MSCP drive type boot to multi user mode > > ! > > ! > > SET SNAP ON ! Enable ERROR_HALT snapshots > > SET FBOX OFF ! System will turn on Fbox > > INIT ! SRM processor init > > UNJAM ! UNJAM SBIA's and enable master sbia interrupts > > INIT/PAMM ! INIT physical address memory map > > DEPOSIT CSWP 8 ! Turn off the cache - System will enable cache > > > > !DEPOSIT R10 9 ! 'ra' MSCP drive type - uba0 - drive 0 > > !DEPOSIT R11 0 ! Software boot flags (multi user mode) > > > > DEP R0 11 > > DEP R1 20006000 > > DEP R2 2013f468 > > DEP R3 F ! Unit number > > DEP R4 0 > > > > LOAD/START:0 BOOT. ! Load 'boot.' at memory location 0 > > START 60 ! Start 'boot.' at the address 60 > > ------------ > > > > But note, that is not not through VMB, so any discussions about R5 > > previously is not relevant here. Also, the start address is very much > > depending on the actual image loaded. > > All of these things can still be done with the simh VAX simulators. The > default BOOT command operations setup and use VMB since that was the > most common operation across 'most' deployed systems. What is done > within the BOOT command is very much what Johnny's COM file does (init > register values as need, load and start VMB). For completeness sake then, here is the command files to boot VMS and NetBSD, using VMB as well. (VMS, booting an RA disk over CI) ---------- ! ! Version: 001.000 ! ! CI PORT BOOT COMMAND FILE - CIBOO.COM ! ! This CI port boot command file is set up to boot from a CI ! device; for example, a HSC based disk. ! ! It assumes the CI780 is on SBIA #0, the TR level of the CI780 ! is set to 14, the HSC node number is set to 15 and the disk's ! unit number is 0. ! ! If any of these assumptions are not true for your configuration, ! you may still use this command file by entering the BOOT/NOSTART ! console command and then altering the appropriate register values ! when the console command prompt reappears. Use the console ! command SHOW BOOT.HLP/ASCII to get more information on how to ! use the BOOT/NOSTART command and R5 boot options. ! ! ! Operating System Disk: CI DEVICE ! ! SET SNAP ON ! Enable ERROR_HALT snapshots SET FBOX OFF ! VMS will turn on Fbox INIT ! SRM processor init UNJAM ! UNJAM SBIAs, Enable Master SBI interrupts DEPOSIT CSWP 8 ! Turn off the cache (VMS turns the cache on) ! DEPOSIT R0 20 ! Device Type is CI780 DEPOSIT R1 E ! SBIA #0; TR number of the CI780 is 14 DEPOSIT R2 3 ! HSC port number 15 DEPOSIT R3 4 ! Unit number to boot from (in HEX) DEPOSIT R4 0 ! Logical block number to boot from if R5 bit 3 is set ! Use R5 for optional boot control flags DEPOSIT R5 0 ! Boot to multiuser. FIND/MEMORY ! Locate a 64KB chunk of good memory EXAMINE SP ! Display load address LOAD/START:@ VMB ! Load VMB 200 bytes above the start of the good block START @ ! Start VMB at the load address -------- And NetBSD, booting from an RA drive connected locally. -------- ! ! Version: 001.000 ! ! DU0 BOOT COMMAND FILE - DU0BOO.COM ! ! This UNIBUS disk boot command file is set up to boot from a RA ! series disk connected to a UDA50. ! ! It assumes the DW780 is on SBIA #0, the TR level of the DW780 ! is set to 5, the UDA50 is the first one on the system, the ! UDA50 CSR address is 772150 and the disk's unit number is 0. ! ! If any of these assumptions are not true for your configuration, ! you may still use this command file by entering the BOOT/NOSTART ! console command and then altering the appropriate register values ! when the console command prompt reappears. Use the console ! command SHOW BOOT.HLP/ASCII to get more information on how to ! use the BOOT/NOSTART command and R5 boot options. ! ! ! Operating System Disk: UNIBUS DISK (UDA50) ! ! SET SNAP ON ! Enable ERROR_HALT snapshots SET FBOX OFF ! VMS will turn on Fbox INIT ! SRM processor init UNJAM ! UNJAM SBIAs, Enable Master SBI interrupts DEPOSIT CSWP 8 ! Turn off the cache (VMS turns the cache on) ! DEPOSIT R0 11 ! Device Type is UDA50 DEPOSIT R1 3 ! SBIA #0; TR of the DW780 is 3 (DW0) DEPOSIT R2 0103F468 ! Controller A (01) at Unibus CSR address 772150 DEPOSIT R3 F ! Unit number to boot from (in HEX) DEPOSIT R4 0 ! Logical block number to boot from if R5 bit 3 is set ! Use R5 for optional boot control flags DEPOSIT R5 10008 ! Boot to multiuser (bit 0 - ask for image) ! (bit 1 - single user) FIND/MEMORY ! Locate a 64KB chunk of good memory EXAMINE SP ! Display load address LOAD/START:@ VMB ! Load VMB 200 bytes above the start of the good block START @ ! Start VMB at the load address -------- These are the actual files on my console pack, and they are used just like they appear here. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From bqt at softjar.se Thu Jul 10 22:05:56 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 04:05:56 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: References: <53BBDB21.3010607@softjar.se> <53BC8D6C.60703@9track.net> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D0@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: <53BF4684.1050803@softjar.se> On 2014-07-11 02:41, Henry Bent wrote: > I got a console RL02 image from Quasijarus - the only one I could find > easily - but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with it. All I get is > this: > > -- > sim> boot cs /r5:8 > Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > > > Please remove the volume "" from the console device. > > Insert the first standalone system volume and enter "YES" when ready: > -- That is expected. If you actually do this, you are expected to actually have the *system* on an RL02, that you will be booting from. As the normal console pack have all the diagnostics, boot images, microcode, and so on, there is no other system on that pack. This means that you are expected to replace the console pack at this point with another RL02 which contains some kind of a system. For normal VMS installations, this is how you initially install VMS. The second RL02 will contain STABACKIT, which is the standalone backup system. That is in turn used to restore from tapes to some actual other drive you have on the system, thus creating a bootable system disk. Unless you really are installing VMS from scratch, this is probably not something you want to do, or is what you thought you were doing. You probably want to boot from some actual disk you have, such as an RA disk attached to the machine. See my other mail about boot command files for the 86x0 machines. Oh, and I have never used Quasijaurus, so for that specific topic I can't offer any help. So you have a real physical 86x0 machine? Nice! Ping me off list, if you want to talk some more about it. Johnny > > But that's neither here nor there at this point. The 8600 doesn't seem > to be able to run any standalone utilities - they all print one > character to the console and then stop. For example, "copy" and "format": > > sim> load -o copy 0 > sim> run 2 > F > > sim> load -o format 0 > sim> run 2 > D > > While on any other vax simulator, I get: > > sim> load -o copy 0 > sim> run 2 > From: > > sim> load -o format 0 > sim> run 2 > Disk format/check utility > > Enable debugging (0=none, 1=bse, 2=ecc, 3=bse+ecc)? > > > I haven't done any real testing of the qbus vax sims, I just verified > that they could load and run standalone utilities. > > -Henry > > > > > On 10 July 2014 19:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm > wrote: > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > > > Well, that at least did something different. > > > > > > sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > > Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > > %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > > > > > The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character > of its > > > messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other > console > > > problems. > > > > > > > 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually > booting from > > the console RL, floppy, et al. > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing a > HALT instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a > delay (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is > put in the output register prior to generating the completion > interrupt/status. The halt instruction gets executed before the > delay number of instructions have completed. Even if that was > 'fixed', nothing operational would change. The reason the message > has been generated will still exist. > > As for direct support for booting an OS from the console media, the > 8600 supports BOOT CS /R5:xx to boot from the console RL02. Other > than that, VMB.EXE is actually performing the boot operation and I > think that when I checked VMB didn't know how to boot from console > floppies on a 780, but it can boot from the console TU58 on both the > 730 and 750 (BOOT TD /R5:xx). > > > > I tried the standalone boot on the other VAX sims (microvax 1, 2, > > > 3900, and > > > rtvax1000) and they are all able to load the booter and take > console > > > input (I didn't actually try booting). This seems to point to > there > > > being a problem with the console on the 8600. Any tips for where I > > > should look to narrow down where the problem might be? > > What media have you tested with on the other (qbus) VAX simulators? > > - Mark > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From Mark at infocomm.com Sat Jul 12 19:33:43 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:33:43 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote: > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > >> > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. > >>> > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > >>> > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > >>> problems. > >>> > >> > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually booting from > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing a HALT > > instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a delay > > (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in > > the output register prior to generating the completion interrupt/status. > >  The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of > > instructions have completed.  Even if that was 'fixed', nothing > > operational would change.  The reason the message has been > > generated will still exist. The latest github code will no longer drop the last character output just prior to executing a HALT instruction which returns to the "sim> " prompt. Like I said above, nothing else changes though. - Mark From hbent at oberlin.edu Sat Jul 12 22:19:28 2014 From: hbent at oberlin.edu (Henry Bent) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 22:19:28 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: Cool, thanks. I figured out what's going on. The standalone programs are running, they just aren't displaying any input or output after the first character is printed. So if I do this: -- sim> load -o boot 0 sim> run 2 -- and then blindly type "ra(0,0)vmunix", it boots! -- Ultrix V2.2 System #2: Wed Nov 18 01:14:13 EST 1987 real mem = 8388608 avail mem = 6888448 using 34 buffers containing 278528 bytes of memory VAX 8600, serial no. 1234, hardware level = 7 IO adapter 0 at address 0x20080000 is an SBI adapter uba0 at address 0x20006000 uda0 at uba0 uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 ra0 at uq0 slave 0 de0 at uba0 csr 174510 vec 120, ipl 15 mba0 at address 0x20012000 ht0 at mba0 drive 0 tu0 at ht0 slave 0 boot device not found root device? -- And I can then interact with the console, characters are displayed normally, etc. -Henry On 12 July 2014 19:33, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote: > > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > > > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. > > >>> > > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > >>> > > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character of its > > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other console > > >>> problems. > > >>> > > >> > > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not actually > booting from > > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > > > > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing a HALT > > > instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a delay > > > (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in > > > the output register prior to generating the completion > interrupt/status. > > > The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of > > > instructions have completed. Even if that was 'fixed', nothing > > > operational would change. The reason the message has been > > > generated will still exist. > > The latest github code will no longer drop the last character output just > prior to executing a HALT instruction which returns to the "sim> " prompt. > > Like I said above, nothing else changes though. > > - Mark > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bqt at softjar.se Sat Jul 12 22:50:05 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 04:50:05 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: <53C1F3DD.4020908@softjar.se> On 2014-07-13 04:19, Henry Bent wrote: > Cool, thanks. > > I figured out what's going on. The standalone programs are running, > they just aren't displaying any input or output after the first > character is printed. So if I do this: > > -- > sim> load -o boot 0 > sim> run 2 > > -- > and then blindly type "ra(0,0)vmunix", it boots! [...] Hmm hmm. I suspect I might know what is going on there. I'd have to test and play around some to verify, though. The console I/O on the 86x0 machines are a bit special, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some issues in simh related to that. Mark, can we get some trace of all reads and writes to the registers related to the console? (There are four logical devices addressed on the 86x0 machines through the same CSRs.) Henry, if you could get such information logged, we could probably fix this pretty fast. Or else if you could just provide me with the files, I could test this myself as well. I don't have an old Ultrix image around, though. Johnny > > -- > Ultrix V2.2 System #2: Wed Nov 18 01:14:13 EST 1987 > real mem = 8388608 > avail mem = 6888448 > using 34 buffers containing 278528 bytes of memory > VAX 8600, serial no. 1234, hardware level = 7 > IO adapter 0 at address 0x20080000 is an SBI adapter > uba0 at address 0x20006000 > uda0 at uba0 > uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 > ra0 at uq0 slave 0 > de0 at uba0 csr 174510 vec 120, ipl 15 > mba0 at address 0x20012000 > ht0 at mba0 drive 0 > tu0 at ht0 slave 0 > boot device not found > root device? > -- > > And I can then interact with the console, characters are displayed > normally, etc. > > -Henry > > > On 12 July 2014 19:33, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm > wrote: > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote: > > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist > wrote: > > > > > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. > > >>> > > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > >>> > > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character > of its > > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other > console > > >>> problems. > > >>> > > >> > > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not > actually booting from > > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > > > > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing > a HALT > > > instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a > delay > > > (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put in > > > the output register prior to generating the completion > interrupt/status. > > > The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of > > > instructions have completed. Even if that was 'fixed', nothing > > > operational would change. The reason the message has been > > > generated will still exist. > > The latest github code will no longer drop the last character output > just prior to executing a HALT instruction which returns to the > "sim> " prompt. > > Like I said above, nothing else changes though. > > - Mark > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From hbent at oberlin.edu Sat Jul 12 22:52:22 2014 From: hbent at oberlin.edu (Henry Bent) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 22:52:22 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <53C1F3DD.4020908@softjar.se> References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <53C1F3DD.4020908@softjar.se> Message-ID: Sure, I'll work on getting an Ultrix image in a usable state so that I can upload it. -Henry On 12 July 2014 22:50, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On 2014-07-13 04:19, Henry Bent wrote: > >> Cool, thanks. >> >> I figured out what's going on. The standalone programs are running, >> they just aren't displaying any input or output after the first >> character is printed. So if I do this: >> >> -- >> sim> load -o boot 0 >> sim> run 2 >> >> -- >> and then blindly type "ra(0,0)vmunix", it boots! >> > > [...] > > Hmm hmm. I suspect I might know what is going on there. I'd have to test > and play around some to verify, though. The console I/O on the 86x0 > machines are a bit special, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some > issues in simh related to that. > > Mark, can we get some trace of all reads and writes to the registers > related to the console? (There are four logical devices addressed on the > 86x0 machines through the same CSRs.) > > Henry, if you could get such information logged, we could probably fix > this pretty fast. Or else if you could just provide me with the files, I > could test this myself as well. I don't have an old Ultrix image around, > though. > > Johnny > > >> -- >> Ultrix V2.2 System #2: Wed Nov 18 01:14:13 EST 1987 >> real mem = 8388608 >> avail mem = 6888448 >> using 34 buffers containing 278528 bytes of memory >> VAX 8600, serial no. 1234, hardware level = 7 >> IO adapter 0 at address 0x20080000 is an SBI adapter >> uba0 at address 0x20006000 >> uda0 at uba0 >> uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 >> ra0 at uq0 slave 0 >> de0 at uba0 csr 174510 vec 120, ipl 15 >> mba0 at address 0x20012000 >> ht0 at mba0 drive 0 >> tu0 at ht0 slave 0 >> boot device not found >> root device? >> -- >> >> And I can then interact with the console, characters are displayed >> normally, etc. >> >> -Henry >> >> >> On 12 July 2014 19:33, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm > > wrote: >> >> On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote: >> > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist > > wrote: >> > > >> > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: >> > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: >> > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. >> > >>> >> > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 >> > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe >> > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio >> > >>> >> > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last character >> of its >> > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to the other >> console >> > >>> problems. >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not >> actually booting from >> > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. >> > > >> > > The last character output in a message just prior to executing >> a HALT >> > > instruction is not surprising since the simulator implements a >> delay >> > > (as a number of instructions executed) from when the data is put >> in >> > > the output register prior to generating the completion >> interrupt/status. >> > > The halt instruction gets executed before the delay number of >> > > instructions have completed. Even if that was 'fixed', nothing >> > > operational would change. The reason the message has been >> > > generated will still exist. >> >> The latest github code will no longer drop the last character output >> just prior to executing a HALT instruction which returns to the >> "sim> " prompt. >> >> Like I said above, nothing else changes though. >> >> - Mark >> _______________________________________________ >> Simh mailing list >> Simh at trailing-edge.com >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh >> >> >> > > -- > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bqt at softjar.se Sat Jul 12 22:57:18 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 04:57:18 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <53C1F3DD.4020908@softjar.se> Message-ID: <53C1F58E.4080002@softjar.se> On 2014-07-13 04:52, Henry Bent wrote: > Sure, I'll work on getting an Ultrix image in a usable state so that I > can upload it. Actually, thinking about it, it should be enough with just the boot file that you are using. Johnny > > -Henry > > > On 12 July 2014 22:50, Johnny Billquist > wrote: > > On 2014-07-13 04:19, Henry Bent wrote: > > Cool, thanks. > > I figured out what's going on. The standalone programs are running, > they just aren't displaying any input or output after the first > character is printed. So if I do this: > > -- > sim> load -o boot 0 > sim> run 2 > > -- > and then blindly type "ra(0,0)vmunix", it boots! > > > [...] > > Hmm hmm. I suspect I might know what is going on there. I'd have to > test and play around some to verify, though. The console I/O on the > 86x0 machines are a bit special, and I wouldn't be surprised if > there were some issues in simh related to that. > > Mark, can we get some trace of all reads and writes to the registers > related to the console? (There are four logical devices addressed on > the 86x0 machines through the same CSRs.) > > Henry, if you could get such information logged, we could probably > fix this pretty fast. Or else if you could just provide me with the > files, I could test this myself as well. I don't have an old Ultrix > image around, though. > > Johnny > > > -- > Ultrix V2.2 System #2: Wed Nov 18 01:14:13 EST 1987 > real mem = 8388608 > avail mem = 6888448 > using 34 buffers containing 278528 bytes of memory > VAX 8600, serial no. 1234, hardware level = 7 > IO adapter 0 at address 0x20080000 is an SBI adapter > uba0 at address 0x20006000 > uda0 at uba0 > uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 > ra0 at uq0 slave 0 > de0 at uba0 csr 174510 vec 120, ipl 15 > mba0 at address 0x20012000 > ht0 at mba0 drive 0 > tu0 at ht0 slave 0 > boot device not found > root device? > -- > > And I can then interact with the console, characters are displayed > normally, etc. > > -Henry > > > On 12 July 2014 19:33, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm > > >> wrote: > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote: > > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist > > >> wrote: > > > > > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky > wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. > > >>> > > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > >>> > > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last > character > of its > > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to > the other > console > > >>> problems. > > >>> > > >> > > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not > actually booting from > > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > > > > > The last character output in a message just prior to > executing > a HALT > > > instruction is not surprising since the simulator > implements a > delay > > > (as a number of instructions executed) from when the > data is put in > > > the output register prior to generating the completion > interrupt/status. > > > The halt instruction gets executed before the delay > number of > > > instructions have completed. Even if that was > 'fixed', nothing > > > operational would change. The reason the message has been > > > generated will still exist. > > The latest github code will no longer drop the last > character output > just prior to executing a HALT instruction which returns to the > "sim> " prompt. > > Like I said above, nothing else changes though. > > - Mark > _________________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > __> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.__com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > > > > > -- > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt at softjar.se || > Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > > -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From hbent at oberlin.edu Sat Jul 12 23:01:02 2014 From: hbent at oberlin.edu (Henry Bent) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 23:01:02 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <53C1F58E.4080002@softjar.se> References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <53C1F3DD.4020908@softjar.se> <53C1F58E.4080002@softjar.se> Message-ID: Here you go: http://occs.cs.oberlin.edu/~hbent/vaxultrix/boot.gz -Henry On 12 July 2014 22:57, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On 2014-07-13 04:52, Henry Bent wrote: > >> Sure, I'll work on getting an Ultrix image in a usable state so that I >> can upload it. >> > > Actually, thinking about it, it should be enough with just the boot file > that you are using. > > Johnny > > >> -Henry >> >> >> On 12 July 2014 22:50, Johnny Billquist > > wrote: >> >> On 2014-07-13 04:19, Henry Bent wrote: >> >> Cool, thanks. >> >> I figured out what's going on. The standalone programs are >> running, >> they just aren't displaying any input or output after the first >> character is printed. So if I do this: >> >> -- >> sim> load -o boot 0 >> sim> run 2 >> >> -- >> and then blindly type "ra(0,0)vmunix", it boots! >> >> >> [...] >> >> Hmm hmm. I suspect I might know what is going on there. I'd have to >> test and play around some to verify, though. The console I/O on the >> 86x0 machines are a bit special, and I wouldn't be surprised if >> there were some issues in simh related to that. >> >> Mark, can we get some trace of all reads and writes to the registers >> related to the console? (There are four logical devices addressed on >> the 86x0 machines through the same CSRs.) >> >> Henry, if you could get such information logged, we could probably >> fix this pretty fast. Or else if you could just provide me with the >> files, I could test this myself as well. I don't have an old Ultrix >> image around, though. >> >> Johnny >> >> >> -- >> Ultrix V2.2 System #2: Wed Nov 18 01:14:13 EST 1987 >> real mem = 8388608 >> avail mem = 6888448 >> using 34 buffers containing 278528 bytes of memory >> VAX 8600, serial no. 1234, hardware level = 7 >> IO adapter 0 at address 0x20080000 is an SBI adapter >> uba0 at address 0x20006000 >> uda0 at uba0 >> uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 >> ra0 at uq0 slave 0 >> de0 at uba0 csr 174510 vec 120, ipl 15 >> mba0 at address 0x20012000 >> ht0 at mba0 drive 0 >> tu0 at ht0 slave 0 >> boot device not found >> root device? >> -- >> >> And I can then interact with the console, characters are displayed >> normally, etc. >> >> -Henry >> >> >> On 12 July 2014 19:33, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm >> >> >> wrote: >> >> On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote: >> > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist >> >> >> wrote: >> > > >> > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: >> > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory Smelosky >> wrote: >> > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. >> > >>> >> > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 >> > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe >> > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio >> > >>> >> > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off the last >> character >> of its >> > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way related to >> the other >> console >> > >>> problems. >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same issue...along with not >> actually booting from >> > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. >> > > >> > > The last character output in a message just prior to >> executing >> a HALT >> > > instruction is not surprising since the simulator >> implements a >> delay >> > > (as a number of instructions executed) from when the >> data is put in >> > > the output register prior to generating the completion >> interrupt/status. >> > > The halt instruction gets executed before the delay >> number of >> > > instructions have completed. Even if that was >> 'fixed', nothing >> > > operational would change. The reason the message has >> been >> > > generated will still exist. >> >> The latest github code will no longer drop the last >> character output >> just prior to executing a HALT instruction which returns to >> the >> "sim> " prompt. >> >> Like I said above, nothing else changes though. >> >> - Mark >> _________________________________________________ >> >> Simh mailing list >> Simh at trailing-edge.com >> __> >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.__com/mailman/listinfo/simh >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus >> || on a psychedelic trip >> email: bqt at softjar.se || >> >> Reading murder books >> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol >> >> >> > > -- > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bqt at softjar.se Sun Jul 13 01:18:07 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 07:18:07 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <53C1F3DD.4020908@softjar.se> <53C1F58E.4080002@softjar.se> Message-ID: <53C2168F.5000505@softjar.se> On 2014-07-13 05:01, Henry Bent wrote: > Here you go: > http://occs.cs.oberlin.edu/~hbent/vaxultrix/boot.gz Thanks. I'll see if I have some time to look at it today. Johnny > > > -Henry > > > On 12 July 2014 22:57, Johnny Billquist > wrote: > > On 2014-07-13 04:52, Henry Bent wrote: > > Sure, I'll work on getting an Ultrix image in a usable state so > that I > can upload it. > > > Actually, thinking about it, it should be enough with just the boot > file that you are using. > > Johnny > > > -Henry > > > On 12 July 2014 22:50, Johnny Billquist > >> wrote: > > On 2014-07-13 04:19, Henry Bent wrote: > > Cool, thanks. > > I figured out what's going on. The standalone programs > are running, > they just aren't displaying any input or output after > the first > character is printed. So if I do this: > > -- > sim> load -o boot 0 > sim> run 2 > > -- > and then blindly type "ra(0,0)vmunix", it boots! > > > [...] > > Hmm hmm. I suspect I might know what is going on there. I'd > have to > test and play around some to verify, though. The console > I/O on the > 86x0 machines are a bit special, and I wouldn't be surprised if > there were some issues in simh related to that. > > Mark, can we get some trace of all reads and writes to the > registers > related to the console? (There are four logical devices > addressed on > the 86x0 machines through the same CSRs.) > > Henry, if you could get such information logged, we could > probably > fix this pretty fast. Or else if you could just provide me > with the > files, I could test this myself as well. I don't have an > old Ultrix > image around, though. > > Johnny > > > -- > Ultrix V2.2 System #2: Wed Nov 18 01:14:13 EST 1987 > real mem = 8388608 > avail mem = 6888448 > using 34 buffers containing 278528 bytes of memory > VAX 8600, serial no. 1234, hardware level = 7 > IO adapter 0 at address 0x20080000 is an SBI adapter > uba0 at address 0x20006000 > uda0 at uba0 > uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 > ra0 at uq0 slave 0 > de0 at uba0 csr 174510 vec 120, ipl 15 > mba0 at address 0x20012000 > ht0 at mba0 drive 0 > tu0 at ht0 slave 0 > boot device not found > root device? > -- > > And I can then interact with the console, characters > are displayed > normally, etc. > > -Henry > > > On 12 July 2014 19:33, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm > > > > > >>> wrote: > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark > Pizzolato wrote: > > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info > Comm wrote: > > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory > Smelosky > wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Well, that at least did something different. > > >>> > > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 > > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe > > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio > > >>> > > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off > the last > character > of its > > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way > related to > the other > console > > >>> problems. > > >>> > > >> > > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same > issue...along with not > actually booting from > > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. > > > > > > The last character output in a message just > prior to > executing > a HALT > > > instruction is not surprising since the simulator > implements a > delay > > > (as a number of instructions executed) from > when the > data is put in > > > the output register prior to generating the > completion > interrupt/status. > > > The halt instruction gets executed before > the delay > number of > > > instructions have completed. Even if that was > 'fixed', nothing > > > operational would change. The reason the > message has been > > > generated will still exist. > > The latest github code will no longer drop the last > character output > just prior to executing a HALT instruction which > returns to the > "sim> " prompt. > > Like I said above, nothing else changes though. > > - Mark > ___________________________________________________ > > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > __> > __>__> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.____com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > > > > > > > > -- > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt at softjar.se > > || > > Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - > B. Idol > > > > > -- > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt at softjar.se || > Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > > -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From hbent at oberlin.edu Tue Jul 15 03:10:44 2014 From: hbent at oberlin.edu (Henry Bent) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 03:10:44 -0400 Subject: [Simh] 4.2BSD with networking on a VAX 11/780 Message-ID: Hi all, As part of ongoing efforts with a different project I set up a 4.2BSD install on a vax780 sim with networking support. After I did it I realized that I wasn't sure it had ever been done on SIMH before, so I wanted to let folks know that it's possible. All I've tested so far is the ftp client, but I was able to download files from a machine on the local subnet as well as a machine on the larger internet. If you want to try it out, http://occs.cs.oberlin.edu/~hbent/vaxultrix/42bsd-net.tar.bz2 is a virgin install of 4.2BSD on an RA81 complete with an ini and bootloader file, ready to go. I just added the DEUNA driver and recompiled the kernel based on my local setup. It was tested with the most recent version of the vax780 simulator from git, I have no idea if it will work on any other version. Adding the driver was actually fairly easy. I found the original 4.2BSD driver on google groups: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/net.unix/qqCxhYWQPtI/c7Ptc1mjQ9sJ . This is the direct ancestor of the driver from 4.3BSD as well as Ultrix. It did not need any changes to compile, just an update to /usr/sys/conf/files.vax and an addition to the kernel config file. Enjoy! -Henry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsteve at superglobalmegacorp.com Tue Jul 15 08:46:35 2014 From: jsteve at superglobalmegacorp.com (Jason Stevens) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:46:35 +0800 Subject: [Simh] 4.2BSD with networking on a VAX 11/780 Message-ID: <0F0B9BFC06289346B88512B91E55670D2F4F@EXCHANGE> Glad you could reproduce it... although I did this years ago.. Finding the driver in Google groups was a godsend, since it was pretty useless without networking. Years ago I built a few things for 4.2 to make it feel a little more modern, although to be honest the UWSIC build of 4.3BSD is so much more useful. I have tap files of the following binary packages: gcc-1.21.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 dungeon-2.5.6.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 flex-2.5.4.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 gcc-1.42.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 bison-1.25.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 hack-1.0.3.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 gzip-1.2.4.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 gcc-1.27.binary.BSD-4.2.tap.bz2 which are available here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bsd42/files/Package%20Tapes/4.2%20BSD/ And if you look around the project files, I have quite a bit built out for more platforms as well. I couldn't get an IRC client to build to save my life, but on 4.3 it was pretty trivial. I'd avoid RENO, it really is quite unstable when you push it hard. Jason _____ From: Henry Bent [mailto:hbent at oberlin.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 3:11 PM To: simh at trailing-edge.com Subject: [Simh] 4.2BSD with networking on a VAX 11/780 Hi all, As part of ongoing efforts with a different project I set up a 4.2BSD install on a vax780 sim with networking support. After I did it I realized that I wasn't sure it had ever been done on SIMH before, so I wanted to let folks know that it's possible. All I've tested so far is the ftp client, but I was able to download files from a machine on the local subnet as well as a machine on the larger internet. If you want to try it out, http://occs.cs.oberlin.edu/~hbent/vaxultrix/42bsd-net.tar.bz2 is a virgin install of 4.2BSD on an RA81 complete with an ini and bootloader file, ready to go. I just added the DEUNA driver and recompiled the kernel based on my local setup. It was tested with the most recent version of the vax780 simulator from git, I have no idea if it will work on any other version. Adding the driver was actually fairly easy. I found the original 4.2BSD driver on google groups: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/net.unix/qqCxhYWQPtI/c7Ptc1mjQ9sJ . This is the direct ancestor of the driver from 4.3BSD as well as Ultrix. It did not need any changes to compile, just an update to /usr/sys/conf/files.vax and an addition to the kernel config file. Enjoy! -Henry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ttmrichter at gmail.com Wed Jul 16 21:09:40 2014 From: ttmrichter at gmail.com (Michael Richter) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 09:09:40 +0800 Subject: [Simh] Seeking silly utility Message-ID: I had a utility a long time ago that would render data as an ASCII rendition of paper tape or cards. I can't for the life of me remember what the utility was called, though, or where I got it from. Does anybody else here perhaps recall the name of the utility (and even better where I could get it from)? -- "Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot." --Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the "don't be evil" mantra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clemc at ccc.com Wed Jul 16 21:12:05 2014 From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 21:12:05 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Seeking silly utility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: UNIX - they were called ppt and bcd. If you look on Warren's PUPS and TUHS archives, I suspect you will find the sources. Clem On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Michael Richter wrote: > I had a utility a long time ago that would render data as an ASCII > rendition of paper tape or cards. I can't for the life of me remember what > the utility was called, though, or where I got it from. Does anybody else > here perhaps recall the name of the utility (and even better where I could > get it from)? > > -- > "Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions > of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese > people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot." > --Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the "don't be evil" mantra. > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ttmrichter at gmail.com Wed Jul 16 22:24:50 2014 From: ttmrichter at gmail.com (Michael Richter) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 10:24:50 +0800 Subject: [Simh] Seeking silly utility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And there's the penny that dropped. Contained in the package "bsdgames" for those who may be interested. On 17 July 2014 09:12, Clem Cole wrote: > UNIX - they were called ppt and bcd. > If you look on Warren's PUPS and TUHS archives, I suspect you will find > the sources. > > Clem > > > On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Michael Richter > wrote: > >> I had a utility a long time ago that would render data as an ASCII >> rendition of paper tape or cards. I can't for the life of me remember what >> the utility was called, though, or where I got it from. Does anybody else >> here perhaps recall the name of the utility (and even better where I could >> get it from)? >> >> -- >> "Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions >> of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese >> people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot." >> --Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the "don't be evil" mantra. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Simh mailing list >> Simh at trailing-edge.com >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh >> > > -- "Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot." --Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the "don't be evil" mantra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ttmrichter at gmail.com Wed Jul 16 23:30:55 2014 From: ttmrichter at gmail.com (Michael Richter) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:30:55 +0800 Subject: [Simh] Seeking silly utility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is an interesting utility: covers both 5-bit and 8-bit code. And it gives the option of graphical output. https://github.com/NF6X/papertape On 17 July 2014 10:24, Michael Richter wrote: > And there's the penny that dropped. > > Contained in the package "bsdgames" for those who may be interested. > > > On 17 July 2014 09:12, Clem Cole wrote: > >> UNIX - they were called ppt and bcd. >> If you look on Warren's PUPS and TUHS archives, I suspect you will find >> the sources. >> >> Clem >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Michael Richter >> wrote: >> >>> I had a utility a long time ago that would render data as an ASCII >>> rendition of paper tape or cards. I can't for the life of me remember what >>> the utility was called, though, or where I got it from. Does anybody else >>> here perhaps recall the name of the utility (and even better where I could >>> get it from)? >>> >>> -- >>> "Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the >>> discussions of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the >>> Chinese people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot." >>> --Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the "don't be evil" >>> mantra. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Simh mailing list >>> Simh at trailing-edge.com >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh >>> >> >> > > > -- > "Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions > of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese > people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot." > --Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the "don't be evil" mantra. > -- "Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot." --Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the "don't be evil" mantra. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhialto at falu.nl Thu Jul 17 02:52:57 2014 From: rhialto at falu.nl (Rhialto) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 08:52:57 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Seeking silly utility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140717065257.GD7511@falu.nl> On Thu 17 Jul 2014 at 10:24:50 +0800, Michael Richter wrote: > Contained in the package "bsdgames" for those who may be interested. Current NetBSD has them too, in /usr/games. -Olaf. -- ___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert -- The Doctor: No, 'eureka' is Greek for \X/ rhialto/at/xs4all.nl -- 'this bath is too hot.' -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbglaw at lug-owl.de Sun Jul 20 20:12:26 2014 From: jbglaw at lug-owl.de (Jan-Benedict Glaw) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 02:12:26 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage Message-ID: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> Hi! I just attended the GNU Tools Cauldron 2014 meeting, where we discussed to use Simh for testing produced code for VAX and PDP processors. While Simh isn't The Real Thing, it would probably work quite well. On a first glance, there are some issues that I'd like to discuss. First of all, a given testcase needs to be loaded. (Usually, this would be a small binary calling abort() or returning with zero from main(). We would just supply a fake libc that sets r0 to zero / nonzero and calls HLT.) Here's the first problem: The PDP11 simulator seems to LOAD a file with kind of a load address -- content --- load address -- content ... scheme, while the VAX simulator loads a raw byte. Instead of these ad-hoc formats, our impression is that it would be nice to have an ELF and/or a.out loader for a static binary. Either a minimal one, or one using libelf. Would a patch for this be accepted? An alternate route could be to put some helper scripts and converter programs together that build up the proper LOADable files. A second issue I found is that the remote telnet port isn't serviced unless the simulator is actually running. It would be quite cool to expose it's capabilities even earlier: The final intention is to interface it with GDB as a debugger. In this setup, GDB would see Simh as something like a "probe" or "accessor" to a (real) VAX system, like remote debugging for some other development boards is done today. Thanks, JBG -- Jan-Benedict Glaw jbglaw at lug-owl.de +49-172-7608481 Signature of: GDB has a 'break' feature; why doesn't it have 'fix' too? the second : -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From Mark at infocomm.com Mon Jul 21 18:24:05 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:24:05 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage In-Reply-To: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> References: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Sunday, July 20, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote: > I just attended the GNU Tools Cauldron 2014 meeting, where we discussed to > use Simh for testing produced code for VAX and PDP processors. While Simh > isn't The Real Thing, it would probably work quite well. > > On a first glance, there are some issues that I'd like to discuss. > First of all, a given testcase needs to be loaded. (Usually, this would be a small > binary calling abort() or returning with zero from main(). We would just > supply a fake libc that sets r0 to zero / nonzero and calls HLT.) > > Here's the first problem: The PDP11 simulator seems to LOAD a file with > kind of a load address -- content --- load address -- content ... > scheme, while the VAX simulator loads a raw byte. Instead of these ad-hoc > formats, our impression is that it would be nice to have an ELF and/or a.out > loader for a static binary. Either a minimal one, or one using libelf. Would a > patch for this be accepted? Changes which implemented: sim> LOAD -A a.out.binaryfile and/or sim> LOAD -E elf.binaryfile if you do this, then you should consider the inverse operations as well: sim> DUMP -A a.out.binaryfile and/or sim> DUMP -E elf.binaryfile these would be accepted for the VAX and PDP simulators as long as it worked on all the simh host platforms and therefore didn't depend on an external library. Depending on an external library would probably be extra tricky due to the endian-independent memory reference model in the simulators anyway. The license should be consistent with the standard language which is at the header of scp.c, etc. > An alternate route could be to put some helper > scripts and converter programs together that build up the proper LOADable > files. That could work for you without any adjustments to simh code. The effort should be similar but may leverage other libraries . > A second issue I found is that the remote telnet port isn't serviced unless the > simulator is actually running. It would be quite cool to expose it's capabilities > even earlier: The final intention is to interface it with GDB as a debugger. In > this setup, GDB would see Simh as something like a "probe" or "accessor" to a > (real) VAX system, like remote debugging for some other development > boards is done today. One of the envisioned goals of the existing REMOTE CONSOLE support was to facilitate a generic means of possibly implementing simulator specific blinken-lights front panels. GDB could certainly be considered a case in this domain. The use of a simulator in such a way would certainly require specific setup conditions for it to work at all. If GDB was really going to be the driving force the simulator startup would have to be configured to support this and several other accommodations/extended behaviors would probably be necessary (handling simh break point processing via a remote console quickly comes to mind). We can explore this and other details if you want to move down that path. - Mark From bqt at softjar.se Wed Jul 23 08:11:21 2014 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:11:21 +0200 Subject: [Simh] Standalone boot on vax8600? In-Reply-To: <53C2168F.5000505@softjar.se> References: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA61A6B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014DA592D5@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> <53C1F3DD.4020908@softjar.se> <53C1F58E.4080002@softjar.se> <53C2168F.5000505@softjar.se> Message-ID: <53CFA669.8080903@softjar.se> Finally had a few minutes to look at this. Congratulations, Henry. You actually found a bug in simh. Fix attached. Mark, could you please commit this? Also, I noticed a bunch of warnings from some printf in pdp11_dmc.c, which I did not do anything about. I grabbed the code from today, so I suspect you or someone else will fix those soon anyway. Johnny On 2014-07-13 07:18, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On 2014-07-13 05:01, Henry Bent wrote: >> Here you go: >> http://occs.cs.oberlin.edu/~hbent/vaxultrix/boot.gz > > Thanks. I'll see if I have some time to look at it today. > > Johnny > >> >> >> -Henry >> >> >> On 12 July 2014 22:57, Johnny Billquist > > wrote: >> >> On 2014-07-13 04:52, Henry Bent wrote: >> >> Sure, I'll work on getting an Ultrix image in a usable state so >> that I >> can upload it. >> >> >> Actually, thinking about it, it should be enough with just the boot >> file that you are using. >> >> Johnny >> >> >> -Henry >> >> >> On 12 July 2014 22:50, Johnny Billquist > >> >> wrote: >> >> On 2014-07-13 04:19, Henry Bent wrote: >> >> Cool, thanks. >> >> I figured out what's going on. The standalone programs >> are running, >> they just aren't displaying any input or output after >> the first >> character is printed. So if I do this: >> >> -- >> sim> load -o boot 0 >> sim> run 2 >> >> -- >> and then blindly type "ra(0,0)vmunix", it boots! >> >> >> [...] >> >> Hmm hmm. I suspect I might know what is going on there. I'd >> have to >> test and play around some to verify, though. The console >> I/O on the >> 86x0 machines are a bit special, and I wouldn't be >> surprised if >> there were some issues in simh related to that. >> >> Mark, can we get some trace of all reads and writes to the >> registers >> related to the console? (There are four logical devices >> addressed on >> the 86x0 machines through the same CSRs.) >> >> Henry, if you could get such information logged, we could >> probably >> fix this pretty fast. Or else if you could just provide me >> with the >> files, I could test this myself as well. I don't have an >> old Ultrix >> image around, though. >> >> Johnny >> >> >> -- >> Ultrix V2.2 System #2: Wed Nov 18 01:14:13 EST 1987 >> real mem = 8388608 >> avail mem = 6888448 >> using 34 buffers containing 278528 bytes of memory >> VAX 8600, serial no. 1234, hardware level = 7 >> IO adapter 0 at address 0x20080000 is an SBI adapter >> uba0 at address 0x20006000 >> uda0 at uba0 >> uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 >> ra0 at uq0 slave 0 >> de0 at uba0 csr 174510 vec 120, ipl 15 >> mba0 at address 0x20012000 >> ht0 at mba0 drive 0 >> tu0 at ht0 slave 0 >> boot device not found >> root device? >> -- >> >> And I can then interact with the console, characters >> are displayed >> normally, etc. >> >> -Henry >> >> >> On 12 July 2014 19:33, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm >> >> > >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Mark >> Pizzolato wrote: >> > On Jul 10, 2014 2:02 PM, Johnny Billquist >> >> > >> >> >>> wrote: >> > > >> > > On 2014-07-11 01:08, Mark Pizzolato - Info >> Comm wrote: >> > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Cory >> Smelosky >> wrote: >> > > >> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014, Henry Bent wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >>> Well, that at least did something >> different. >> > >>> >> > >>> sim> boot rq0 /r5:8 >> > >>> Loading boot code from vmb.exe >> > >>> %BOOT-F-Unexpected Exceptio >> > >>> >> > >>> The 8600 simulator always seems to cut off >> the last >> character >> of its >> > >>> messages, I wonder if that's in any way >> related to >> the other >> console >> > >>> problems. >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> 780, 750, and 730 have the same >> issue...along with not >> actually booting from >> > >> the console RL, floppy, et al. >> > > >> > > The last character output in a message just >> prior to >> executing >> a HALT >> > > instruction is not surprising since the >> simulator >> implements a >> delay >> > > (as a number of instructions executed) from >> when the >> data is put in >> > > the output register prior to generating the >> completion >> interrupt/status. >> > > The halt instruction gets executed before >> the delay >> number of >> > > instructions have completed. Even if that was >> 'fixed', nothing >> > > operational would change. The reason the >> message has been >> > > generated will still exist. >> >> The latest github code will no longer drop the last >> character output >> just prior to executing a HALT instruction which >> returns to the >> "sim> " prompt. >> >> Like I said above, nothing else changes though. >> >> - Mark >> ___________________________________________________ >> >> Simh mailing list >> Simh at trailing-edge.com >> __> >> > > __>__> >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.____com/mailman/listinfo/simh >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus >> || on a psychedelic trip >> email: bqt at softjar.se >> > || >> >> Reading murder books >> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - >> B. Idol >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus >> || on a psychedelic trip >> email: bqt at softjar.se || >> Reading murder books >> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol >> >> > > -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol -------------- next part -------------- *** simh-master/VAX/vax860_stddev.c Thu Jul 17 19:04:40 2014 --- simh-fix/VAX/vax860_stddev.c Wed Jul 23 14:06:10 2014 *************** *** 55,62 **** #define TXCS_V_TEN 16 /* Transmitter en */ #define TXCS_M_TEN 0xF #define TXCS_TEN (TXCS_M_TEN << TXCS_V_TEN) ! #define TXCS_RD (CSR_DONE + CSR_IE + TXCS_TEN + TXCS_IDC) /* terminal output */ ! #define TXCS_WR (CSR_IE + TXCS_TEN) #define ID_CT 0 /* console terminal */ #define ID_RS 1 /* remote services */ #define ID_EMM 2 /* environmental monitoring module */ --- 55,62 ---- #define TXCS_V_TEN 16 /* Transmitter en */ #define TXCS_M_TEN 0xF #define TXCS_TEN (TXCS_M_TEN << TXCS_V_TEN) ! #define TXCS_RD (CSR_DONE + CSR_IE + TXCS_TEN + TXCS_IDC + TXCS_WMN) /* Readable bits */ ! #define TXCS_WR (CSR_IE) /* Writeable bits */ #define ID_CT 0 /* console terminal */ #define ID_RS 1 /* remote services */ #define ID_EMM 2 /* environmental monitoring module */ *************** *** 493,506 **** void txcs_wr (int32 data) { ! tto_csr = (tto_csr & ~TXCS_WR) | (data & TXCS_WR); ! if (data & TXCS_WMN) /* updating mask? */ ! tto_update_int (); ! if ((data & CSR_IE) == 0) tto_int = 0; ! else if ((tto_csr & (CSR_DONE + CSR_IE)) == CSR_DONE) tto_int = 1; ! return; } void txdb_wr (int32 data) --- 493,508 ---- void txcs_wr (int32 data) { ! tto_csr = (tto_csr & ~TXCS_WR) | (data & TXCS_WR); /* Write new bits. */ ! if (data & TXCS_WMN) { /* Updating enable mask? */ ! tto_csr = (tto_csr & ~TXCS_TEN) | (data & TXCS_TEN); /* Yes. Modify enable mask. */ ! tto_update_int (); /* This can change interrupt requests... */ ! } ! if ((data & CSR_IE) == 0) tto_int = 0; ! else if ((tto_csr & (CSR_DONE + CSR_IE)) == CSR_DONE) tto_int = 1; ! return; } void txdb_wr (int32 data) From macro at linux-mips.org Wed Jul 23 13:40:32 2014 From: macro at linux-mips.org (Maciej W. Rozycki) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:40:32 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage In-Reply-To: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> References: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > I just attended the GNU Tools Cauldron 2014 meeting, where we discussed to > > use Simh for testing produced code for VAX and PDP processors. While Simh > > isn't The Real Thing, it would probably work quite well. > > > > On a first glance, there are some issues that I'd like to discuss. > > First of all, a given testcase needs to be loaded. (Usually, this > > would be a small binary calling abort() or returning with zero from > > main(). We would just supply a fake libc that sets r0 to zero / > > nonzero and calls HLT.) > > > > Here's the first problem: The PDP11 simulator seems to LOAD a file > > with kind of a load address -- content --- load address -- content ... > > scheme, while the VAX simulator loads a raw byte. Instead of these > > ad-hoc formats, our impression is that it would be nice to have an ELF > > and/or a.out loader for a static binary. Either a minimal one, or one > > using libelf. Would a patch for this be accepted? > > Changes which implemented: > sim> LOAD -A a.out.binaryfile > and/or > sim> LOAD -E elf.binaryfile > > if you do this, then you should consider the inverse operations as well: > sim> DUMP -A a.out.binaryfile > and/or > sim> DUMP -E elf.binaryfile > > these would be accepted for the VAX and PDP simulators as long as it > worked on all the simh host platforms and therefore didn't depend on an > external library. Depending on an external library would probably be > extra tricky due to the endian-independent memory reference model in the > simulators anyway. Libelf is widely available, any system that had to do anything with SVR4 (where this file format has originated from) will have it. A free implementation is also available: http://www.mr511.de/software/english.html and the *BSD systems have their replacement too. If your host doesn't have a binary readily available (that'd only be more exotic ones I suppose, such as MinGW perhaps), then you should be able to build your own. Libelf is endianness-agnostic and will present ELF file data structures in the host endianness regardless of what the endianness of the file being processed is, in fact one of the purposes of the library is to relieve the app using it from having to byte-swap data explicitly. It's been a while since I poked at libelf and I don't remember offhand whether it does the swapping thing automatically on opening a file; either way there are function calls provided in the API to do that explicitly, both ways (file->host & host->file). You need this data in the host endianness as you'll be making calculations on them to process the file. Raw loadable segments are of course passed unchanged and all DEC processors are little-endian I believe so I don't see a problem here. Of course you can do without libelf, especially in loading an executable only, where what you need to process are only the file header and the program headers (the latter providing information about loadable segments present in the file), and no such more complicated stuff as symbols or relocations. If dumping is implemented, then using the library will be especially beneficial, as it'll sort out some of the details needed to produce a valid ELF image itself. However in my opinion avoiding code duplication has a value in itself, starting from that's extensive, and then including all the low-level processing stuff. I think writing Yet Another ELF Loader would be more appropriate for a bare-iron environment, such as for a boot loader included with a console monitor or a piece of firmware of similar kind, whereas in a fully-hosted environment it makes sense to use what the environment already provides rather than reinventing the wheel. Of course you may disagree and may have arguments against this approach; I'd be happy to discuss them. > > An alternate route could be to put some helper > > scripts and converter programs together that build up the proper LOADable > > files. > > That could work for you without any adjustments to simh code. The > effort should be similar but may leverage other libraries . The drawback might be some performance loss, depending on what the existing interface already provides, e.g. does it handle gaps in executables and fill BSS segments itself or do they have to be loaded as all-zeros explicitly? This might matter if the simulator was to be wired to automatic toolchain testing, as it's already done with QEMU for example, where tens of thousands of test cases are loaded in a sequence and the download time is one factor. To say nothing of the overhead of invoking helper software needed to convert between formats, e.g. `objcopy'. You need to pass the entry point somehow too; does the existing interface do it? In any case that'd have to be extracted from the ELF executable somehow, possibly with `readelf' or `objdump', further postprocessed to get the value only, that looks like another performance degradation to me. ELF has been designed with easy loading in mind, trying to avoid mistakes learnt with earlier executable formats. Therefore I think it makes sense to avoid any format conversion and load it directly. > > A second issue I found is that the remote telnet port isn't serviced > > unless the simulator is actually running. It would be quite cool to > > expose it's capabilities even earlier: The final intention is to > > interface it with GDB as a debugger. In this setup, GDB would see Simh > > as something like a "probe" or "accessor" to a (real) VAX system, like > > remote debugging for some other development boards is done today. > > One of the envisioned goals of the existing REMOTE CONSOLE support was > to facilitate a generic means of possibly implementing simulator > specific blinken-lights front panels. GDB could certainly be considered > a case in this domain. > > The use of a simulator in such a way would certainly require specific > setup conditions for it to work at all. If GDB was really going to be > the driving force the simulator startup would have to be configured to > support this and several other accommodations/extended behaviors would > probably be necessary (handling simh break point processing via a remote > console quickly comes to mind). We can explore this and other details > if you want to move down that path. For GDB control a Remote Serial Protocol aka RSP stub will have to be implemented. At the very minimum it'll have to support commands (called packets in RSP-speak) to peek and poke at target registers and memory, and to execute, single-step, interrupt execution, and to set and remove breakpoints (GDB can set software breakpoints itself by patching code with whatever instruction is used by the architecture, but with a bare-iron target such as a simulator is that'd have to be an ICE/JTAG kind of a breakpoint instruction rather than a user breakpoint instruction, such as BPT in the case of the VAX processor, that has to be left alone for use by software run within the simulator rather than for use by the simulator itself). Maciej From khandy21yo at gmail.com Wed Jul 23 14:39:55 2014 From: khandy21yo at gmail.com (Kevin Handy) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:39:55 -0600 Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage In-Reply-To: References: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: I think that adding all of this complexity to simh to handle one load type might be a bit overkill. After adding elf support, you will probably need to add VMS, RT11, RSX, etc... support. I think that it would be better to create external utilities that would convert the onject format to a simpler format that "load" understands. If you then had simh call that utility a part of a "load" command (popen?) you would be able to create any number of loaders with little increase in the complexity and size of simh. It would also make the utilities availabe outside of simh itself. It would probably also be much simpler to debug Tools like this might be of interest to others outside of simh. For example, someone might want to be able to load an elf binary on real hardware without an OS.. Just my thoughts on the matter. On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Maciej W. Rozycki wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > > I just attended the GNU Tools Cauldron 2014 meeting, where we > discussed to > > > use Simh for testing produced code for VAX and PDP processors. While > Simh > > > isn't The Real Thing, it would probably work quite well. > > > > > > On a first glance, there are some issues that I'd like to discuss. > > > First of all, a given testcase needs to be loaded. (Usually, this > > > would be a small binary calling abort() or returning with zero from > > > main(). We would just supply a fake libc that sets r0 to zero / > > > nonzero and calls HLT.) > > > > > > Here's the first problem: The PDP11 simulator seems to LOAD a file > > > with kind of a load address -- content --- load address -- content ... > > > scheme, while the VAX simulator loads a raw byte. Instead of these > > > ad-hoc formats, our impression is that it would be nice to have an ELF > > > and/or a.out loader for a static binary. Either a minimal one, or one > > > using libelf. Would a patch for this be accepted? > > > > Changes which implemented: > > sim> LOAD -A a.out.binaryfile > > and/or > > sim> LOAD -E elf.binaryfile > > > > if you do this, then you should consider the inverse operations as well: > > sim> DUMP -A a.out.binaryfile > > and/or > > sim> DUMP -E elf.binaryfile > > > > these would be accepted for the VAX and PDP simulators as long as it > > worked on all the simh host platforms and therefore didn't depend on an > > external library. Depending on an external library would probably be > > extra tricky due to the endian-independent memory reference model in the > > simulators anyway. > > Libelf is widely available, any system that had to do anything with SVR4 > (where this file format has originated from) will have it. A free > implementation is also available: > > http://www.mr511.de/software/english.html > > and the *BSD systems have their replacement too. If your host doesn't > have a binary readily available (that'd only be more exotic ones I > suppose, such as MinGW perhaps), then you should be able to build your > own. > > Libelf is endianness-agnostic and will present ELF file data structures > in the host endianness regardless of what the endianness of the file being > processed is, in fact one of the purposes of the library is to relieve the > app using it from having to byte-swap data explicitly. It's been a while > since I poked at libelf and I don't remember offhand whether it does the > swapping thing automatically on opening a file; either way there are > function calls provided in the API to do that explicitly, both ways > (file->host & host->file). You need this data in the host endianness as > you'll be making calculations on them to process the file. Raw loadable > segments are of course passed unchanged and all DEC processors are > little-endian I believe so I don't see a problem here. > > Of course you can do without libelf, especially in loading an executable > only, where what you need to process are only the file header and the > program headers (the latter providing information about loadable segments > present in the file), and no such more complicated stuff as symbols or > relocations. If dumping is implemented, then using the library will be > especially beneficial, as it'll sort out some of the details needed to > produce a valid ELF image itself. > > However in my opinion avoiding code duplication has a value in itself, > starting from that's extensive, and then including all the > low-level processing stuff. I think writing Yet Another ELF Loader would > be more appropriate for a bare-iron environment, such as for a boot loader > included with a console monitor or a piece of firmware of similar kind, > whereas in a fully-hosted environment it makes sense to use what the > environment already provides rather than reinventing the wheel. > > Of course you may disagree and may have arguments against this approach; > I'd be happy to discuss them. > > > > An alternate route could be to put some helper > > > scripts and converter programs together that build up the proper > LOADable > > > files. > > > > That could work for you without any adjustments to simh code. The > > effort should be similar but may leverage other libraries . > > The drawback might be some performance loss, depending on what the > existing interface already provides, e.g. does it handle gaps in > executables and fill BSS segments itself or do they have to be loaded as > all-zeros explicitly? This might matter if the simulator was to be wired > to automatic toolchain testing, as it's already done with QEMU for > example, where tens of thousands of test cases are loaded in a sequence > and the download time is one factor. To say nothing of the overhead of > invoking helper software needed to convert between formats, e.g. > `objcopy'. > > You need to pass the entry point somehow too; does the existing interface > do it? In any case that'd have to be extracted from the ELF executable > somehow, possibly with `readelf' or `objdump', further postprocessed to > get the value only, that looks like another performance degradation to me. > > ELF has been designed with easy loading in mind, trying to avoid mistakes > learnt with earlier executable formats. Therefore I think it makes sense > to avoid any format conversion and load it directly. > > > > A second issue I found is that the remote telnet port isn't serviced > > > unless the simulator is actually running. It would be quite cool to > > > expose it's capabilities even earlier: The final intention is to > > > interface it with GDB as a debugger. In this setup, GDB would see Simh > > > as something like a "probe" or "accessor" to a (real) VAX system, like > > > remote debugging for some other development boards is done today. > > > > One of the envisioned goals of the existing REMOTE CONSOLE support was > > to facilitate a generic means of possibly implementing simulator > > specific blinken-lights front panels. GDB could certainly be considered > > a case in this domain. > > > > The use of a simulator in such a way would certainly require specific > > setup conditions for it to work at all. If GDB was really going to be > > the driving force the simulator startup would have to be configured to > > support this and several other accommodations/extended behaviors would > > probably be necessary (handling simh break point processing via a remote > > console quickly comes to mind). We can explore this and other details > > if you want to move down that path. > > For GDB control a Remote Serial Protocol aka RSP stub will have to be > implemented. At the very minimum it'll have to support commands (called > packets in RSP-speak) to peek and poke at target registers and memory, and > to execute, single-step, interrupt execution, and to set and remove > breakpoints (GDB can set software breakpoints itself by patching code with > whatever instruction is used by the architecture, but with a bare-iron > target such as a simulator is that'd have to be an ICE/JTAG kind of a > breakpoint instruction rather than a user breakpoint instruction, such as > BPT in the case of the VAX processor, that has to be left alone for use by > software run within the simulator rather than for use by the simulator > itself). > > Maciej > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From litt at ieee.org Wed Jul 23 15:03:44 2014 From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:03:44 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage In-Reply-To: References: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: <53D00710.7030307@ieee.org> On 23-Jul-14 14:39, Kevin Handy wrote: > I think that adding all of this complexity to simh to handle one load > type might be a bit overkill. After adding elf support, you will > probably need to add VMS, RT11, RSX, etc... support. > > I think that it would be better to create external utilities that > would convert the onject format to a simpler format that "load" > understands. If you then had simh call that utility a part of a "load" > command (popen?) you would be able to create any number of loaders > with little increase in the complexity and size of simh. It would also > make the utilities availabe outside of simh itself. It would probably > also be much simpler to debug > > Tools like this might be of interest to others outside of simh. For > example, someone might want to be able to load an elf binary on real > hardware without an OS.. > I agree. The SimH loaders are designed to load the native format bootstraps. Getting ELF right is out of scope for SimH - first, because it isn't portable (SimH runs on VMS, Windows and other environments that don't have libelf). Second, because to do it right, you have to handle shared libraries and deal with the fact that memory management is OFF - as may also be traps and exception handling in the emulated machine. I know the current request was for 'a static binary', but the next request (probably from someone else) will be to enhance it... The core mission of SimH is to preserve the software that ran on these machines - other applications are secondary. This request really is application specific and should be done as external utilities. This is much simpler, as you need only make the utilities work in your testcase development environment. I'm fine with using SimH as a reference machine, although it is designed to emulate implementations, not architectures. That is, it is bug-for-bug compatible with, e.g. VAX models, but does not implement the VAX architecture of the SRM. For testcase control, what's wrong with expect scripts? If you insist on developing these patches, at least make sure that they are conditionally compiled OFF by default with as much of the code as possible in separate sourcefiles. And be sure that you are willing to sign up to maintain them, long after your current project ends... Really, external tools are the right way to deal with this. > Just my thoughts on the matter. > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Maciej W. Rozycki > > wrote: > > On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > > I just attended the GNU Tools Cauldron 2014 meeting, where we > discussed to > > > use Simh for testing produced code for VAX and PDP processors. > While Simh > > > isn't The Real Thing, it would probably work quite well. > > > > > > On a first glance, there are some issues that I'd like to > discuss. > > > First of all, a given testcase needs to be loaded. (Usually, this > > > would be a small binary calling abort() or returning with zero > from > > > main(). We would just supply a fake libc that sets r0 to zero / > > > nonzero and calls HLT.) > > > > > > Here's the first problem: The PDP11 simulator seems to LOAD > a file > > > with kind of a load address -- content --- load address -- > content ... > > > scheme, while the VAX simulator loads a raw byte. Instead of these > > > ad-hoc formats, our impression is that it would be nice to > have an ELF > > > and/or a.out loader for a static binary. Either a minimal one, > or one > > > using libelf. Would a patch for this be accepted? > > > > Changes which implemented: > > sim> LOAD -A a.out.binaryfile > > and/or > > sim> LOAD -E elf.binaryfile > > > > if you do this, then you should consider the inverse operations > as well: > > sim> DUMP -A a.out.binaryfile > > and/or > > sim> DUMP -E elf.binaryfile > > > > these would be accepted for the VAX and PDP simulators as long as it > > worked on all the simh host platforms and therefore didn't > depend on an > > external library. Depending on an external library would > probably be > > extra tricky due to the endian-independent memory reference > model in the > > simulators anyway. > > Libelf is widely available, any system that had to do anything > with SVR4 > (where this file format has originated from) will have it. A free > implementation is also available: > > http://www.mr511.de/software/english.html > > and the *BSD systems have their replacement too. If your host doesn't > have a binary readily available (that'd only be more exotic ones I > suppose, such as MinGW perhaps), then you should be able to build your > own. > > Libelf is endianness-agnostic and will present ELF file data > structures > in the host endianness regardless of what the endianness of the > file being > processed is, in fact one of the purposes of the library is to > relieve the > app using it from having to byte-swap data explicitly. It's been > a while > since I poked at libelf and I don't remember offhand whether it > does the > swapping thing automatically on opening a file; either way there are > function calls provided in the API to do that explicitly, both ways > (file->host & host->file). You need this data in the host > endianness as > you'll be making calculations on them to process the file. Raw > loadable > segments are of course passed unchanged and all DEC processors are > little-endian I believe so I don't see a problem here. > > Of course you can do without libelf, especially in loading an > executable > only, where what you need to process are only the file header and the > program headers (the latter providing information about loadable > segments > present in the file), and no such more complicated stuff as symbols or > relocations. If dumping is implemented, then using the library > will be > especially beneficial, as it'll sort out some of the details needed to > produce a valid ELF image itself. > > However in my opinion avoiding code duplication has a value in > itself, > starting from that's extensive, and then including all the > low-level processing stuff. I think writing Yet Another ELF > Loader would > be more appropriate for a bare-iron environment, such as for a > boot loader > included with a console monitor or a piece of firmware of similar > kind, > whereas in a fully-hosted environment it makes sense to use what the > environment already provides rather than reinventing the wheel. > > Of course you may disagree and may have arguments against this > approach; > I'd be happy to discuss them. > > > > An alternate route could be to put some helper > > > scripts and converter programs together that build up the > proper LOADable > > > files. > > > > That could work for you without any adjustments to simh code. The > > effort should be similar but may leverage other libraries . > > The drawback might be some performance loss, depending on what the > existing interface already provides, e.g. does it handle gaps in > executables and fill BSS segments itself or do they have to be > loaded as > all-zeros explicitly? This might matter if the simulator was to > be wired > to automatic toolchain testing, as it's already done with QEMU for > example, where tens of thousands of test cases are loaded in a > sequence > and the download time is one factor. To say nothing of the > overhead of > invoking helper software needed to convert between formats, e.g. > `objcopy'. > > You need to pass the entry point somehow too; does the existing > interface > do it? In any case that'd have to be extracted from the ELF > executable > somehow, possibly with `readelf' or `objdump', further > postprocessed to > get the value only, that looks like another performance > degradation to me. > > ELF has been designed with easy loading in mind, trying to avoid > mistakes > learnt with earlier executable formats. Therefore I think it > makes sense > to avoid any format conversion and load it directly. > > > > A second issue I found is that the remote telnet port isn't > serviced > > > unless the simulator is actually running. It would be quite > cool to > > > expose it's capabilities even earlier: The final intention is to > > > interface it with GDB as a debugger. In this setup, GDB would > see Simh > > > as something like a "probe" or "accessor" to a (real) VAX > system, like > > > remote debugging for some other development boards is done today. > > > > One of the envisioned goals of the existing REMOTE CONSOLE > support was > > to facilitate a generic means of possibly implementing simulator > > specific blinken-lights front panels. GDB could certainly be > considered > > a case in this domain. > > > > The use of a simulator in such a way would certainly require > specific > > setup conditions for it to work at all. If GDB was really going > to be > > the driving force the simulator startup would have to be > configured to > > support this and several other accommodations/extended behaviors > would > > probably be necessary (handling simh break point processing via > a remote > > console quickly comes to mind). We can explore this and other > details > > if you want to move down that path. > > For GDB control a Remote Serial Protocol aka RSP stub will have to be > implemented. At the very minimum it'll have to support commands > (called > packets in RSP-speak) to peek and poke at target registers and > memory, and > to execute, single-step, interrupt execution, and to set and remove > breakpoints (GDB can set software breakpoints itself by patching > code with > whatever instruction is used by the architecture, but with a bare-iron > target such as a simulator is that'd have to be an ICE/JTAG kind of a > breakpoint instruction rather than a user breakpoint instruction, > such as > BPT in the case of the VAX processor, that has to be left alone > for use by > software run within the simulator rather than for use by the simulator > itself). > > Maciej > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5159 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From Mark at infocomm.com Thu Jul 24 19:10:46 2014 From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 16:10:46 -0700 Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage In-Reply-To: References: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E64@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Maciej W. Rozycki wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: > > > > A second issue I found is that the remote telnet port isn't > > > serviced unless the simulator is actually running. It would be quite > > > cool to expose it's capabilities even earlier: The final intention > > > is to interface it with GDB as a debugger. In this setup, GDB would > > > see Simh as something like a "probe" or "accessor" to a (real) VAX > > > system, like remote debugging for some other development boards is > done today. > > > > One of the envisioned goals of the existing REMOTE CONSOLE support was > > to facilitate a generic means of possibly implementing simulator > > specific blinken-lights front panels. GDB could certainly be > > considered a case in this domain. > > > > The use of a simulator in such a way would certainly require specific > > setup conditions for it to work at all. If GDB was really going to be > > the driving force the simulator startup would have to be configured to > > support this and several other accommodations/extended behaviors would > > probably be necessary (handling simh break point processing via a > > remote console quickly comes to mind). We can explore this and other > > details if you want to move down that path. > > For GDB control a Remote Serial Protocol aka RSP stub will have to be > implemented. At the very minimum it'll have to support commands (called > packets in RSP-speak) to peek and poke at target registers and memory, and > to execute, single-step, interrupt execution, and to set and remove > breakpoints (GDB can set software breakpoints itself by patching code with > whatever instruction is used by the architecture, but with a bare-iron target > such as a simulator is that'd have to be an ICE/JTAG kind of a breakpoint > instruction rather than a user breakpoint instruction, such as BPT in the case > of the VAX processor, that has to be left alone for use by software run within > the simulator rather than for use by the simulator itself). This is good information. I've reviewed what this involves and the current simh REMOTE CONSOLE capabilities do need some extension to support the minimal set of abilities that a GDB RSP stub would require. I'll look at working on these changes so that someone else can tackle the actual implementation of the RSP stub(s) for each of the respective VAX and PDP11 simulators if they desire (the implementation would leverage a TCP circuit to a simh REMOTE CONSOLE). Any use of a simh simulator in a test framework will require any number of test related configuration steps to initiate the simulator to serve this purpose. Invoking external elf/a.out transformation tools as part of those configuration steps should be relatively trivial. So, as a starting point I would think that external tools would be a sufficient solution to the problem. Once those details have been worked out, if the external tools are a prohibitive bottleneck to the problem alternate approaches can be explored. If someone wants to implement a simh GDB RSP stub, please create an issue at https://github.com/simh/simh/issues to track this activity and work out any integration/implementation details. - Mark Pizzolato From legalize at xmission.com Mon Jul 28 12:40:49 2014 From: legalize at xmission.com (Richard) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 10:40:49 -0600 Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage In-Reply-To: References: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: In article , "Maciej W. Rozycki" writes: > Libelf is widely available, any system that had to do anything with SVR4 > (where this file format has originated from) will have it. What about Windows? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book The Computer Graphics Museum The Terminals Wiki Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) From clemc at ccc.com Mon Jul 28 15:21:18 2014 From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 15:21:18 -0400 Subject: [Simh] Simh for testsuite usage In-Reply-To: References: <20140721001226.GB21544@lug-owl.de> <03006E3FC39B5A48AB9DBCCC101090A8014FA34E5B@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com> Message-ID: A supposedly crude hack I'm told, but LBW (http://lbw.sourceforge.net/) has support for Elf on windows. Never tried it [or had any desire] On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Richard wrote: > > In article , > "Maciej W. Rozycki" writes: > > > Libelf is widely available, any system that had to do anything with SVR4 > > (where this file format has originated from) will have it. > > What about Windows? > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book < > http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline> > The Computer Graphics Museum > The Terminals Wiki > Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh at trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: