[Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?

Sat Jun 8 04:58:38 EDT 2013

I can confirm that the DUP11 was supported by VMS since the first VAX that
I managed (a venerable VAX-11/780) had a DUP11 as its network interface.
The system ran VMS 3.x (and maybe 4.x) and it is possible that the driver
was part of the PSI software (which was the biggest culprit of system
crashes).

I am VERY interested in having both a DUP11 and DPV11 to add to my emulated
systems, so I await their availability with bated breath.

Cheers

Peter Allan

On 8 June 2013 01:17, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com> wrote:

> I concluded lack of DUP11 support since SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG.COM doesn’t
> mention the XW device (which the DUP11 would be called in VMS).  If someone
> has the pieces and they can be configured I’ll be glad to know, and it
> should be tested.****
>
> ** **
>
> The mention of the VAXBI and DWBUA requirement was probably due to the
> fact that all of the other Unibus systems were past “End-Of-Life” when that
> SPD was written.  The DUP11 is a programmed I/O device which does nothing
> special on the bus.  It should work on any Unibus as long as there was
> software support.****
>
> ** **
>
> If someone has the software pieces and we can test I’ll be glad to know.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> The DUP11 simulator has partial support for also simulating the DPV11 on
> Qbus systems.  This has not been fully debugged yet.  There are enough
> interface differences here between the DUP11 and the DPV11 that VMS has
> different drivers.  I’ll announce when RSX11M+ using a DPV11 can talk to
> another RSX11M+ using a DUP11.****
>
> ** **
>
> **-          **Mark****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Timothe Litt [mailto:litt at ieee.org]
> *Sent:* Friday, June 07, 2013 2:59 PM
> *To:* Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm; simh at trailing-edge.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?****
>
> ** **
>
> >> I don’t think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.
>
> Yes, it was.  See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/spddecnetplusvax73.pdfpage 13 table 2.  DUP wasn't added in 7.3;  it would have been there all
> along.  This was just the first SPD I grabbed.  There were also sync line
> adapters for Microvax - I have one here, I think.  DSW4{1,2,3}.  And QBus
> (DPV/DSV, BI (DMB/DSB).  Gory details in the SPD.
>
> You needed the WAN Drivers layered product, though.
>
> ****
>
> The DUP11 is supported on a VAXBI system ﬁtted
> with a DWBUA UNIBUS adapter for VAX 8200, VAX
> 8250, VAX 8300, VAX 8300, VAX 8350, VAX 8500,
> VAX 8530, VAX 8550, VAX 8700, and VAX 8800 systems only****
>
>
> (Oddly, I didn't see DMC/DMR listed, but I do remember them working...)
>
> Yes, Phase V supported DDCMP as a transport layer.  No version change.
>
>
>
> ****
>
> This communication may not represent my employer's views,****
>
> if any, on the matters discussed. ****
>
> On 07-Jun-13 15:45, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:****
>
> I believe that the DUP11 emulation is working.  It has been tested
> minimally on RSX11M+ talking to RSX11M+.  Never having been a user of these
> systems I don’t have enough experience to do rigorous testing.  Anyone
> willing to test more rigorously is welcome.****
>
>  ****
>
> In theory, the DUP11 could work for VAX Unibus systems, however I don’t
> think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.  Maybe for DECnet Phase
> V, but I can’t seem to find support prior to that.  Even in the DECnet
> Phase V case, the DUP11 smiulation ONLY supports DDCMP on the wire and I
> don’t know if that was what DECnet Phase V spoke on the wire…  I welcome
> anyone with the experience to test.  Contact me offline for specific help.
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> The current code at github.com/simh/simh (downloadable as
> https://github.com/simh/simh/archive/master.zip) will build PDP11 and all
> the Unibus VAX simulators with DUP11 support.  If DDCMP on DUP11’s was
> never a supported protocol for VMS, we’ll probably remove the DUP from the
> VAX simulators before things settle down.****
>
>  ****
>
> As Rob and Tim have said, the KDP is still a work in progress.  The
> ultimate goal will be to have the KDP talk to other KDP’s and bare DUP11’s
> and the DMC11 all speaking DDCMP on the wire.****
>
>  ****
>
> The original KDP code spoke partial DDCMP on the wire (without DDCMP’s
> CRC’s) and as Tim mentions below, had numerous issues with some required OS
> interactions as well as correct observance of DDCMP’s packet boundaries in
> the data stream.****
>
>  ****
>
> Rob’s DMC11 implementation didn’t speak DDCMP on the wire at all.****
>
>  ****
>
> So work is ongoing to get each of these devices to talk a common language
> and to meet OS expectations..****
>
>  ****
>
> **-          **Mark****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com [
> mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com <simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Timothe Litt
> *Sent:* Friday, June 07, 2013 11:29 AM
> *To:* simh at trailing-edge.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?****
>
>  ****
>
> I’ve decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a
> KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months
> ago, but I’m not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy
> of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?****
>
> Here's what I know:
>
> Rob Jarrett ported a KDP simulation to the latest emulator.  It didn't
> quite work.  There's a personal repo on github, but it's not worth a
> pointer.
>
> I have 2 -10s and 2 -20s  configured for DECnet (and ANF-10) running on my
> desktop. (!)  No 11-based ANF nodes yet.
>
> I made some progress - I had ANF-10 up for an hour or so; DECnet-10 not at
> all; DECnet-20 sometimes.  The KDP emulation is missing some commands that
> the OSs count on.  My code isn't in the repo, yet.
>
> Mark Pizzolato has a DUP emulation that he says is mostly working on 11s
> and VMS.  Rather than keep two DUP emulations, the plan was to split the
> KDP into the KMC + DUP, rather like the real hardware.
>
> I've been off line for about the past 10 daze - e-mail appears and
> disappears on my servers - the responsible party calls it an 'upgrade', so
> I'm not sure what the current state pf the KDP/DMR work is.
>
> I have tracked down the COMIOP-DUP microcode USER's documentation with the
> help of Al Kossow and Cynde Moya, and it's on bitsavers along with the DMR
> tech manuals.  (Both even agree with my memory.)
>
>
> http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/AA-5670A-TC_COMM_IOP-DUP_Programming_Manual_Jan78.pdfand
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-TM-002_Jan81.pdf;
> also
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-UG-002_DMR11_Synchronous_Controller_Users_Guide_Dec80.pdf
>
> Once I catch up on e-mail, I'll see what I can do to help, depending on
> where Mark and Rob are.  (They may have given up on me  due to my on/off
> (mostly off) mail service.  Hopefully that's fixed.)
>
> I have 2,475 e-mail messages to sort thru before I'm up-to-date...but
> should have some time this weekend.  I hope.
>
>
>
> ****
>
> This communication may not represent my employer's views,****
>
> if any, on the matters discussed. ****
>
> On 07-Jun-13 13:36, Bob Armstrong wrote:****
>
>   I’ve decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a
> KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months
> ago, but I’m not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy
> of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?****
>
>  ****
>
> Thanks,****
>
> Bob Armstrong****
>
>  ****
>
>
>
>
>
> ****
>
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>
> ** **
>
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