From johnforecast at comcast.net  Sat Jun  1 11:44:16 2013
From: johnforecast at comcast.net (John Forecast)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 11:44:16 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 113, Issue 22
In-Reply-To: <mailman.284.1369841964.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
References: <mailman.284.1369841964.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <3690D186-0239-4FA6-B3E9-BC046550B428@comcast.net>


On May 29, 2013, at 11:39 AM, simh-request at trailing-edge.com wrote:

> 5) Was this KMC/DUP combination ever a supported device on PDP11 or VAX systems?

	I worked on some of the early (Phase 2 & 3) DECnet-RSX products. I can confirm that
	the KMC/DUP was supported on both DECnet-11M and -11M+, along with KMC/DZ. The		drivers are in the distribution kits available on bitsavers (kdp and kdz). I can't recall if they
	were ever supported by DECnet-VMS.

  John.

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From bob at jfcl.com  Sat Jun  1 20:53:29 2013
From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 17:53:29 -0700
Subject: [Simh] DECnet-11/M phase II and III (was KMC/DUP ....)
In-Reply-To: <3690D186-0239-4FA6-B3E9-BC046550B428@comcast.net>
References: <mailman.284.1369841964.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <3690D186-0239-4FA6-B3E9-BC046550B428@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001d01ce5f2b$9930aea0$cb920be0$@com>

> John Forecast <johnforecast at comcast.net> wrote:

>I worked on some of the early (Phase 2 & 3) DECnet-RSX products. 

John -

  You wouldn't happen to have any of those old DECnet-11M tapes lying
around, would you?  I've looked for archived distributions of DECnet-11/M
prior to Phase IV many times and have never found a complete one.

Thanks,
Bob Armstrong




From aek at bitsavers.org  Mon Jun  3 17:43:48 2013
From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow)
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:43:48 -0700
Subject: [Simh] KDP Documentation
In-Reply-To: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157924@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
References: <51A4D32B.60800@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157924@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
Message-ID: <51AD0E14.9040109@bitsavers.org>

On 5/29/13 8:39 AM, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:
> Hi Tim,
>
> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Timothe Litt wrote:
>> I knew I had some documentation for the KMC/DUP combination, though I
>> still haven't found the COMIOP/DUP manual (AA-5670A-TC) in my
>> collection, or on-line.


AA-5670A-TC has been uploaded to
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/AA-5670A-TC_COMM_IOP-DUP_Programming_Manual_Jan78.pdf



From bob at jfcl.com  Fri Jun  7 13:36:20 2013
From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 10:36:20 -0700
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
Message-ID: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com>

  I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a
KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months
ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy of
the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?

 

Thanks,

Bob Armstrong

 

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From litt at ieee.org  Fri Jun  7 14:29:07 2013
From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt)
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 14:29:07 -0400
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com>
References: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com>
Message-ID: <51B22673.2090206@ieee.org>

> I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a 
> KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of 
> months ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me 
> to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?
Here's what I know:

Rob Jarrett ported a KDP simulation to the latest emulator.  It didn't 
quite work.  There's a personal repo on github, but it's not worth a 
pointer.

I have 2 -10s and 2 -20s  configured for DECnet (and ANF-10) running on 
my desktop. (!)  No 11-based ANF nodes yet.

I made some progress - I had ANF-10 up for an hour or so; DECnet-10 not 
at all; DECnet-20 sometimes.  The KDP emulation is missing some commands 
that the OSs count on.  My code isn't in the repo, yet.

Mark Pizzolato has a DUP emulation that he says is mostly working on 11s 
and VMS.  Rather than keep two DUP emulations, the plan was to split the 
KDP into the KMC + DUP, rather like the real hardware.

I've been off line for about the past 10 daze - e-mail appears and 
disappears on my servers - the responsible party calls it an 'upgrade', 
so I'm not sure what the current state pf the KDP/DMR work is.

I have tracked down the COMIOP-DUP microcode USER's documentation with 
the help of Al Kossow and Cynde Moya, and it's on bitsavers along with 
the DMR tech manuals.  (Both even agree with my memory.)

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/AA-5670A-TC_COMM_IOP-DUP_Programming_Manual_Jan78.pdf 
and 
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-TM-002_Jan81.pdf; 
also 
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-UG-002_DMR11_Synchronous_Controller_Users_Guide_Dec80.pdf

Once I catch up on e-mail, I'll see what I can do to help, depending on 
where Mark and Rob are.  (They may have given up on me  due to my on/off 
(mostly off) mail service.  Hopefully that's fixed.)

I have 2,475 e-mail messages to sort thru before I'm up-to-date...but 
should have some time this weekend.  I hope.

This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.

On 07-Jun-13 13:36, Bob Armstrong wrote:
>
>   I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a 
> KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of 
> months ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me 
> to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob Armstrong
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

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From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com  Fri Jun  7 14:30:50 2013
From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Robert Jarratt)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 19:30:50 +0100
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com>
References: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com>
Message-ID: <021501ce63ad$22eafa80$68c0ef80$@ntlworld.com>

It is still being worked on, there isn't anything ready for use yet.

 

Regards

 

Rob

 

From: simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com]
On Behalf Of Bob Armstrong
Sent: 07 June 2013 18:36
To: simh at trailing-edge.com
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?

 

  I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a
KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months
ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy of
the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?

 

Thanks,

Bob Armstrong

 

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From Mark at infocomm.com  Fri Jun  7 15:45:49 2013
From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 12:45:49 -0700
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <51B22673.2090206@ieee.org>
References: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com> <51B22673.2090206@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AC4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>

I believe that the DUP11 emulation is working.  It has been tested minimally on RSX11M+ talking to RSX11M+.  Never having been a user of these systems I don't have enough experience to do rigorous testing.  Anyone willing to test more rigorously is welcome.

In theory, the DUP11 could work for VAX Unibus systems, however I don't think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.  Maybe for DECnet Phase V, but I can't seem to find support prior to that.  Even in the DECnet Phase V case, the DUP11 smiulation ONLY supports DDCMP on the wire and I don't know if that was what DECnet Phase V spoke on the wire...  I welcome anyone with the experience to test.  Contact me offline for specific help.

The current code at github.com/simh/simh (downloadable as https://github.com/simh/simh/archive/master.zip) will build PDP11 and all the Unibus VAX simulators with DUP11 support.  If DDCMP on DUP11's was never a supported protocol for VMS, we'll probably remove the DUP from the VAX simulators before things settle down.

As Rob and Tim have said, the KDP is still a work in progress.  The ultimate goal will be to have the KDP talk to other KDP's and bare DUP11's and the DMC11 all speaking DDCMP on the wire.

The original KDP code spoke partial DDCMP on the wire (without DDCMP's CRC's) and as Tim mentions below, had numerous issues with some required OS interactions as well as correct observance of DDCMP's packet boundaries in the data stream.

Rob's DMC11 implementation didn't speak DDCMP on the wire at all.

So work is ongoing to get each of these devices to talk a common language and to meet OS expectations..


-          Mark

From: simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Timothe Litt
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 11:29 AM
To: simh at trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?

I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?
Here's what I know:

Rob Jarrett ported a KDP simulation to the latest emulator.  It didn't quite work.  There's a personal repo on github, but it's not worth a pointer.

I have 2 -10s and 2 -20s  configured for DECnet (and ANF-10) running on my desktop. (!)  No 11-based ANF nodes yet.

I made some progress - I had ANF-10 up for an hour or so; DECnet-10 not at all; DECnet-20 sometimes.  The KDP emulation is missing some commands that the OSs count on.  My code isn't in the repo, yet.

Mark Pizzolato has a DUP emulation that he says is mostly working on 11s and VMS.  Rather than keep two DUP emulations, the plan was to split the KDP into the KMC + DUP, rather like the real hardware.

I've been off line for about the past 10 daze - e-mail appears and disappears on my servers - the responsible party calls it an 'upgrade', so I'm not sure what the current state pf the KDP/DMR work is.

I have tracked down the COMIOP-DUP microcode USER's documentation with the help of Al Kossow and Cynde Moya, and it's on bitsavers along with the DMR tech manuals.  (Both even agree with my memory.)

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/AA-5670A-TC_COMM_IOP-DUP_Programming_Manual_Jan78.pdf and http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-TM-002_Jan81.pdf; also  http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-UG-002_DMR11_Synchronous_Controller_Users_Guide_Dec80.pdf

Once I catch up on e-mail, I'll see what I can do to help, depending on where Mark and Rob are.  (They may have given up on me  due to my on/off (mostly off) mail service.  Hopefully that's fixed.)

I have 2,475 e-mail messages to sort thru before I'm up-to-date...but should have some time this weekend.  I hope.



This communication may not represent my employer's views,

if any, on the matters discussed.
On 07-Jun-13 13:36, Bob Armstrong wrote:
  I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?

Thanks,
Bob Armstrong





_______________________________________________

Simh mailing list

Simh at trailing-edge.com<mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com>

http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

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From bob at supnik.org  Fri Jun  7 15:52:13 2013
From: bob at supnik.org (Bob Supnik)
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 15:52:13 -0400
Subject: [Simh] TA11/CAPS11 progress
Message-ID: <51B239ED.7070801@supnik.org>

Thanks to Ian Hammond, Lou Ernst, Malcolm Macloud, and Jack Rubin, 
CAPS11 now runs on SimH. The key bug was in the reset routine.

ta_cs = 0;

should be

ta_cs = TACS_RDY;

In addition, I've added the CAPS11 bootstrap into the emulator module, 
so no more toggle-in required.

In the course of this work, I discovered a bug in the CPU SET <model> 
command that inadvertently disabled some devices improperly. Further, 
the CR11/CD11 starts off enabled; because the default CPU is an 11/73 (a 
Qbus machine), it should start off disabled.

Lou Ernst reported that RT11 V5 does not work with the TA11, even on 
real hardware. The simulated TA11 does work under RT11 V4; it's included 
in the stock FB monitor.

One anomaly with RT11 V4 - after writing files to CT0: and then doing a 
DIRECTORY, all the files lengths are 0. The files are there. I can type 
them and DIFF them against their source.  Does anyone know if this is 
the expected behavior?

Thanks,

/Bob

From tshoppa at wmata.com  Fri Jun  7 16:19:46 2013
From: tshoppa at wmata.com (Shoppa, Tim)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 20:19:46 +0000
Subject: [Simh] TA11/CAPS11 progress
In-Reply-To: <51B239ED.7070801@supnik.org>
Message-ID: <303A17BD5F8FA34DA45EEC245271AC0B8F48EB8A@JGEX2K10MBX2.wmata.local>

For RT-11 V5.7 we made some effort to test all the drivers (including "unsupported" ones) but we never had TA11 hardware to test.

I will dust off V4 sources and see what the deal is with zero block DIR listings, now that you got TA11 to work in simulation!

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Supnik [mailto:bob at supnik.org]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 03:52 PM
To: simh at trailing-edge.com <simh at trailing-edge.com>
Subject: [Simh] TA11/CAPS11 progress

Thanks to Ian Hammond, Lou Ernst, Malcolm Macloud, and Jack Rubin, 
CAPS11 now runs on SimH. The key bug was in the reset routine.

ta_cs = 0;

should be

ta_cs = TACS_RDY;

In addition, I've added the CAPS11 bootstrap into the emulator module, 
so no more toggle-in required.

In the course of this work, I discovered a bug in the CPU SET <model> 
command that inadvertently disabled some devices improperly. Further, 
the CR11/CD11 starts off enabled; because the default CPU is an 11/73 (a 
Qbus machine), it should start off disabled.

Lou Ernst reported that RT11 V5 does not work with the TA11, even on 
real hardware. The simulated TA11 does work under RT11 V4; it's included 
in the stock FB monitor.

One anomaly with RT11 V4 - after writing files to CT0: and then doing a 
DIRECTORY, all the files lengths are 0. The files are there. I can type 
them and DIFF them against their source.  Does anyone know if this is 
the expected behavior?

Thanks,

/Bob
_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
Simh at trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

From litt at ieee.org  Fri Jun  7 17:58:40 2013
From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt)
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 17:58:40 -0400
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AC4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
References: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com> <51B22673.2090206@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AC4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
Message-ID: <51B25790.50804@ieee.org>

>> I  don't think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.

Yes, it was.  See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/spddecnetplusvax73.pdf 
page 13 table 2.  DUP wasn't added in 7.3;  it would have been there all 
along.  This was just the first SPD I grabbed.  There were also sync 
line adapters for Microvax - I have one here, I think.  DSW4{1,2,3}.  
And QBus (DPV/DSV, BI (DMB/DSB).  Gory details in the SPD.

You needed the WAN Drivers layered product, though.
> The DUP11 is supported on a VAXBI system fitted
> with a DWBUA UNIBUS adapter for VAX 8200, VAX
> 8250, VAX 8300, VAX 8300, VAX 8350, VAX 8500,
> VAX 8530, VAX 8550, VAX 8700, and VAX 8800 systems only

(Oddly, I didn't see DMC/DMR listed, but I do remember them working...)

Yes, Phase V supported DDCMP as a transport layer.  No version change.


This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.

On 07-Jun-13 15:45, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:
>
> I believe that the DUP11 emulation is working.  It has been tested 
> minimally on RSX11M+ talking to RSX11M+.  Never having been a user of 
> these systems I don't have enough experience to do rigorous testing.  
> Anyone willing to test more rigorously is welcome.
>
> In theory, the DUP11 could work for VAX Unibus systems, however I 
> don't think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.  Maybe for 
> DECnet Phase V, but I can't seem to find support prior to that.  Even 
> in the DECnet Phase V case, the DUP11 smiulation ONLY supports DDCMP 
> on the wire and I don't know if that was what DECnet Phase V spoke on 
> the wire...  I welcome anyone with the experience to test.  Contact me 
> offline for specific help.
>
> The current code at github.com/simh/simh (downloadable as 
> https://github.com/simh/simh/archive/master.zip) will build PDP11 and 
> all the Unibus VAX simulators with DUP11 support.  If DDCMP on DUP11's 
> was never a supported protocol for VMS, we'll probably remove the DUP 
> from the VAX simulators before things settle down.
>
> As Rob and Tim have said, the KDP is still a work in progress.  The 
> ultimate goal will be to have the KDP talk to other KDP's and bare 
> DUP11's and the DMC11 all speaking DDCMP on the wire.
>
> The original KDP code spoke partial DDCMP on the wire (without DDCMP's 
> CRC's) and as Tim mentions below, had numerous issues with some 
> required OS interactions as well as correct observance of DDCMP's 
> packet boundaries in the data stream.
>
> Rob's DMC11 implementation didn't speak DDCMP on the wire at all.
>
> So work is ongoing to get each of these devices to talk a common 
> language and to meet OS expectations..
>
> -Mark
>
> *From:*simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com 
> [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com] *On Behalf Of *Timothe Litt
> *Sent:* Friday, June 07, 2013 11:29 AM
> *To:* simh at trailing-edge.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
>
>     I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a
>     KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of
>     months ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody
>     point me to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?
>
> Here's what I know:
>
> Rob Jarrett ported a KDP simulation to the latest emulator.  It didn't 
> quite work.  There's a personal repo on github, but it's not worth a 
> pointer.
>
> I have 2 -10s and 2 -20s  configured for DECnet (and ANF-10) running 
> on my desktop. (!)  No 11-based ANF nodes yet.
>
> I made some progress - I had ANF-10 up for an hour or so; DECnet-10 
> not at all; DECnet-20 sometimes.  The KDP emulation is missing some 
> commands that the OSs count on. My code isn't in the repo, yet.
>
> Mark Pizzolato has a DUP emulation that he says is mostly working on 
> 11s and VMS.  Rather than keep two DUP emulations, the plan was to 
> split the KDP into the KMC + DUP, rather like the real hardware.
>
> I've been off line for about the past 10 daze - e-mail appears and 
> disappears on my servers - the responsible party calls it an 
> 'upgrade', so I'm not sure what the current state pf the KDP/DMR work is.
>
> I have tracked down the COMIOP-DUP microcode USER's documentation with 
> the help of Al Kossow and Cynde Moya, and it's on bitsavers along with 
> the DMR tech manuals. (Both even agree with my memory.)
>
> http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/AA-5670A-TC_COMM_IOP-DUP_Programming_Manual_Jan78.pdf 
> and 
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-TM-002_Jan81.pdf; 
> also 
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-UG-002_DMR11_Synchronous_Controller_Users_Guide_Dec80.pdf
>
> Once I catch up on e-mail, I'll see what I can do to help, depending 
> on where Mark and Rob are.  (They may have given up on me  due to my 
> on/off (mostly off) mail service. Hopefully that's fixed.)
>
> I have 2,475 e-mail messages to sort thru before I'm up-to-date...but 
> should have some time this weekend.  I hope.
>
>
> This communication may not represent my employer's views,
> if any, on the matters discussed.
>
> On 07-Jun-13 13:36, Bob Armstrong wrote:
>
>       I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on
>     a KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple
>     of months ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody
>     point me to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Bob Armstrong
>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     Simh mailing list
>
>     Simh at trailing-edge.com  <mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com>
>
>     http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>

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From baker at usgs.gov  Fri Jun  7 18:24:04 2013
From: baker at usgs.gov (Larry Baker)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 15:24:04 -0700
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.297.1370642329.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
References: <mailman.297.1370642329.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <EB197BB1-F8EE-44A3-95FF-F477E1DC5587@usgs.gov>

On 7 Jun 2013, at 2:58 PM, <simh-request at trailing-edge.com> <simh-request at trailing-edge.com> wrote:

> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 17:58:40 -0400
> From: Timothe Litt <litt at ieee.org>
> To: Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com>,
> 	"simh at trailing-edge.com" <simh at trailing-edge.com>
> Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
> Message-ID: <51B25790.50804 at ieee.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
> 
>>> I  don't think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.
> 
> Yes, it was.  See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/spddecnetplusvax73.pdf 
> page 13 table 2.  DUP wasn't added in 7.3;  it would have been there all 
> along.  This was just the first SPD I grabbed.  There were also sync 
> line adapters for Microvax - I have one here, I think.  DSW4{1,2,3}.  
> And QBus (DPV/DSV, BI (DMB/DSB).  Gory details in the SPD.
> 
> You needed the WAN Drivers layered product, though.
>> The DUP11 is supported on a VAXBI system fitted
>> with a DWBUA UNIBUS adapter for VAX 8200, VAX
>> 8250, VAX 8300, VAX 8300, VAX 8350, VAX 8500,
>> VAX 8530, VAX 8550, VAX 8700, and VAX 8800 systems only
> 
> (Oddly, I didn't see DMC/DMR listed, but I do remember them working...)
> 

We ran DMRs between our VAX-11/780 and PDP-11/70 RSX-11M-Plus -- predating DECnet Phase IV.  (Wasn't Phase IV the first release that supported Ethernet?)  I remember doing poor-man's routing from the VAX through the 11/70 to an LSI-11/23 in a lab (over a DZ-11 async serial line!).

My recollection is that DECnet always used DDCMP over serial lines.  I thought the DMR did the DDCMP protocol in hardware.  Maybe DMZ's too?

> Yes, Phase V supported DDCMP as a transport layer.  No version change.

Larry Baker
US Geological Survey
650-329-5608
baker at usgs.gov

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From litt at ieee.org  Fri Jun  7 18:30:49 2013
From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt)
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 18:30:49 -0400
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <EB197BB1-F8EE-44A3-95FF-F477E1DC5587@usgs.gov>
References: <mailman.297.1370642329.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <EB197BB1-F8EE-44A3-95FF-F477E1DC5587@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <51B25F19.3000601@ieee.org>

>
> This communication may not represent my employer's views,
> if any, on the matters discussed.
> Wasn't Phase IV the first release that supported Ethernet?
Yes.
> My recollection is that DECnet always used DDCMP over serial lines.  I 
> thought the DMR did the DDCMP protocol in hardware. 
Yes, yes.

> Maybe DMZ's too?
No.

This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.

On 07-Jun-13 18:24, Larry Baker wrote:
> On 7 Jun 2013, at 2:58 PM, <simh-request at trailing-edge.com 
> <mailto:simh-request at trailing-edge.com>> 
> <simh-request at trailing-edge.com 
> <mailto:simh-request at trailing-edge.com>> wrote:
>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 17:58:40 -0400
>> From: Timothe Litt <litt at ieee.org <mailto:litt at ieee.org>>
>> To: Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com 
>> <mailto:Mark at infocomm.com>>,
>> "simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>" 
>> <simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
>> Message-ID: <51B25790.50804 at ieee.org <mailto:51B25790.50804 at ieee.org>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>>
>>>> I  don't think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.
>>
>> Yes, it was.  Seehttp://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/spddecnetplusvax73.pdf
>> page 13 table 2.  DUP wasn't added in 7.3;  it would have been there all
>> along.  This was just the first SPD I grabbed.  There were also sync
>> line adapters for Microvax - I have one here, I think.  DSW4{1,2,3}.
>> And QBus (DPV/DSV, BI (DMB/DSB).  Gory details in the SPD.
>>
>> You needed the WAN Drivers layered product, though.
>>> The DUP11 is supported on a VAXBI system fitted
>>> with a DWBUA UNIBUS adapter for VAX 8200, VAX
>>> 8250, VAX 8300, VAX 8300, VAX 8350, VAX 8500,
>>> VAX 8530, VAX 8550, VAX 8700, and VAX 8800 systems only
>>
>> (Oddly, I didn't see DMC/DMR listed, but I do remember them working...)
>>
>
> We ran DMRs between our VAX-11/780 and PDP-11/70 RSX-11M-Plus -- 
> predating DECnet Phase IV.  (Wasn't Phase IV the 
> first release that supported Ethernet?)  I remember doing poor-man's 
> routing from the VAX through the 11/70 to an LSI-11/23 in a lab (over 
> a DZ-11 async serial line!).
>
> My recollection is that DECnet always used DDCMP over serial lines.  I 
> thought the DMR did the DDCMP protocol in hardware.  Maybe DMZ's too?
>
>> Yes, Phase V supported DDCMP as a transport layer.  No version change.
>
> Larry Baker
> US Geological Survey
> 650-329-5608
> baker at usgs.gov <mailto:baker at usgs.gov>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

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From litt at ieee.org  Fri Jun  7 20:10:55 2013
From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt)
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 20:10:55 -0400
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
Message-ID: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>

I found an official DEC letter from 1992.

First, VAX Wide Area Networking is a separate product.  The kit name is 
SYNC (e.g. SYNC012 on the CDs).
It has a separate PAK - one of which is WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS.  The DUP for 
HDLC and Bisync requires it, but
apparently not for DDCMP.  But the DMC/DMR and other sync lines do.

Second, many of our plans assume a decnet router.  VMS VAX requires the 
DVNETRTG PAK to enable this.

I don't have current information, but 
http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt 
<http://www.aracnet.com/%7Ehealyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt> suggests that 
neither is in the Hobbyist PAK.  This may be because no one thought 
they'd be of interest to hobbyists.  It's also possible that this 
information has been superseded - it's 13 years old, so we need to 
verify it.

Third, VAX DECnet/OSI Phase V officially withdrew support for the DMR11, 
DMV11, KMV1A, KMS1P and  KMS11 devices.
I don't know if they stopped working, or just stopped being supported.  
DEC suggested DMR->Ethernet, DMV/KMV-> DSV and KMS -> DMF32 as 
replacements. (The DMC had previously been retired as the DMR was a more 
capable device, and the DMC had some ucode bugs.)

This may mean that we have to use -11s for routers, if we can't get HP 
to include these PAKs in the Hobbyist PAK for VMS.

Of course, anyone who is replacing real hardware with an emulator can 
(as I understand it) move PAKs from real hardware to their emulator.

We can probably find enough PAKs this way for development, but someone 
will have to take on finding the right person in HP to help create a 
real solution.  Since the folks who set up the hobbyist program are long 
gone, it may be a challenge, even though I don't see any reason for HP 
to refuse.

Meantime, we should solve the technical problems first.  They're 
probably easier...

-- 
This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.


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From Mark at infocomm.com  Fri Jun  7 20:17:18 2013
From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 17:17:18 -0700
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <51B25790.50804@ieee.org>
References: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com> <51B22673.2090206@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AC4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
 <51B25790.50804@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD2@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>

I concluded lack of DUP11 support since SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG.COM doesn?t mention the XW device (which the DUP11 would be called in VMS).  If someone has the pieces and they can be configured I?ll be glad to know, and it should be tested.

The mention of the VAXBI and DWBUA requirement was probably due to the fact that all of the other Unibus systems were past ?End-Of-Life? when that SPD was written.  The DUP11 is a programmed I/O device which does nothing special on the bus.  It should work on any Unibus as long as there was software support.

If someone has the software pieces and we can test I?ll be glad to know.

The DUP11 simulator has partial support for also simulating the DPV11 on Qbus systems.  This has not been fully debugged yet.  There are enough interface differences here between the DUP11 and the DPV11 that VMS has different drivers.  I?ll announce when RSX11M+ using a DPV11 can talk to another RSX11M+ using a DUP11.


-          Mark

From: Timothe Litt [mailto:litt at ieee.org]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 2:59 PM
To: Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm; simh at trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?

>> I don?t think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.

Yes, it was.  See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/spddecnetplusvax73.pdf page 13 table 2.  DUP wasn't added in 7.3;  it would have been there all along.  This was just the first SPD I grabbed.  There were also sync line adapters for Microvax - I have one here, I think.  DSW4{1,2,3}.  And QBus (DPV/DSV, BI (DMB/DSB).  Gory details in the SPD.

You needed the WAN Drivers layered product, though.

The DUP11 is supported on a VAXBI system ?tted
with a DWBUA UNIBUS adapter for VAX 8200, VAX
8250, VAX 8300, VAX 8300, VAX 8350, VAX 8500,
VAX 8530, VAX 8550, VAX 8700, and VAX 8800 systems only

(Oddly, I didn't see DMC/DMR listed, but I do remember them working...)

Yes, Phase V supported DDCMP as a transport layer.  No version change.




This communication may not represent my employer's views,

if any, on the matters discussed.
On 07-Jun-13 15:45, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:
I believe that the DUP11 emulation is working.  It has been tested minimally on RSX11M+ talking to RSX11M+.  Never having been a user of these systems I don?t have enough experience to do rigorous testing.  Anyone willing to test more rigorously is welcome.

In theory, the DUP11 could work for VAX Unibus systems, however I don?t think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.  Maybe for DECnet Phase V, but I can?t seem to find support prior to that.  Even in the DECnet Phase V case, the DUP11 smiulation ONLY supports DDCMP on the wire and I don?t know if that was what DECnet Phase V spoke on the wire?  I welcome anyone with the experience to test.  Contact me offline for specific help.

The current code at github.com/simh/simh (downloadable as https://github.com/simh/simh/archive/master.zip) will build PDP11 and all the Unibus VAX simulators with DUP11 support.  If DDCMP on DUP11?s was never a supported protocol for VMS, we?ll probably remove the DUP from the VAX simulators before things settle down.

As Rob and Tim have said, the KDP is still a work in progress.  The ultimate goal will be to have the KDP talk to other KDP?s and bare DUP11?s and the DMC11 all speaking DDCMP on the wire.

The original KDP code spoke partial DDCMP on the wire (without DDCMP?s CRC?s) and as Tim mentions below, had numerous issues with some required OS interactions as well as correct observance of DDCMP?s packet boundaries in the data stream.

Rob?s DMC11 implementation didn?t speak DDCMP on the wire at all.

So work is ongoing to get each of these devices to talk a common language and to meet OS expectations..


-          Mark

From: simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com<mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com> [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Timothe Litt
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 11:29 AM
To: simh at trailing-edge.com<mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?

I?ve decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months ago, but I?m not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?
Here's what I know:

Rob Jarrett ported a KDP simulation to the latest emulator.  It didn't quite work.  There's a personal repo on github, but it's not worth a pointer.

I have 2 -10s and 2 -20s  configured for DECnet (and ANF-10) running on my desktop. (!)  No 11-based ANF nodes yet.

I made some progress - I had ANF-10 up for an hour or so; DECnet-10 not at all; DECnet-20 sometimes.  The KDP emulation is missing some commands that the OSs count on.  My code isn't in the repo, yet.

Mark Pizzolato has a DUP emulation that he says is mostly working on 11s and VMS.  Rather than keep two DUP emulations, the plan was to split the KDP into the KMC + DUP, rather like the real hardware.

I've been off line for about the past 10 daze - e-mail appears and disappears on my servers - the responsible party calls it an 'upgrade', so I'm not sure what the current state pf the KDP/DMR work is.

I have tracked down the COMIOP-DUP microcode USER's documentation with the help of Al Kossow and Cynde Moya, and it's on bitsavers along with the DMR tech manuals.  (Both even agree with my memory.)

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/AA-5670A-TC_COMM_IOP-DUP_Programming_Manual_Jan78.pdf and http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-TM-002_Jan81.pdf; also  http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-UG-002_DMR11_Synchronous_Controller_Users_Guide_Dec80.pdf

Once I catch up on e-mail, I'll see what I can do to help, depending on where Mark and Rob are.  (They may have given up on me  due to my on/off (mostly off) mail service.  Hopefully that's fixed.)

I have 2,475 e-mail messages to sort thru before I'm up-to-date...but should have some time this weekend.  I hope.




This communication may not represent my employer's views,

if any, on the matters discussed.
On 07-Jun-13 13:36, Bob Armstrong wrote:
  I?ve decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months ago, but I?m not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?

Thanks,
Bob Armstrong






_______________________________________________

Simh mailing list

Simh at trailing-edge.com<mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com>

http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh


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From Mark at infocomm.com  Fri Jun  7 20:28:09 2013
From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 17:28:09 -0700
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
In-Reply-To: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>

On Friday, June 07, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Timothe Litt wrote:
> I found an official DEC letter from 1992.
> 
> First, VAX Wide Area Networking is a separate product.  The kit name is SYNC
> (e.g. SYNC012 on the CDs).
> It has a separate PAK - one of which is WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS.  The DUP for
> HDLC and Bisync requires it, but apparently not for DDCMP.  But the
> DMC/DMR and other sync lines do.
> 
> Second, many of our plans assume a decnet router.  VMS VAX requires the
> DVNETRTG PAK to enable this.

The DVNETRTG PAK is included in the Hobbyist license set I got from HP.

There is no PAK for WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS though.

I believe that several folks are already running Rob Jarratt's DMC on VMS without any PAKs.  I don't know what version of VMS they are running though.  I suspect that V4.x didn't require PAKs for this stuff....

- Mark


From b4 at gewt.net  Fri Jun  7 20:30:29 2013
From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky)
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2013 00:30:29 -0000
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306072030070.6007@maelona>


On Fri, 8 Jun 2013, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:

>
> On Friday, June 07, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Timothe Litt wrote:
>> I found an official DEC letter from 1992.
>>
>> First, VAX Wide Area Networking is a separate product.  The kit name is SYNC
>> (e.g. SYNC012 on the CDs).
>> It has a separate PAK - one of which is WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS.  The DUP for
>> HDLC and Bisync requires it, but apparently not for DDCMP.  But the
>> DMC/DMR and other sync lines do.
>>
>> Second, many of our plans assume a decnet router.  VMS VAX requires the
>> DVNETRTG PAK to enable this.
>
> The DVNETRTG PAK is included in the Hobbyist license set I got from HP.
>
> There is no PAK for WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS though.
>
> I believe that several folks are already running Rob Jarratt's DMC on VMS without any PAKs.  I don't know what version of VMS they are running though.  I suspect that V4.x didn't require PAKs for this stuff....
>

4.x needed a DECnet PAK.  I have it laying around if needed.

> - Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>

--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

From jg at jordi.guillaumes.name  Fri Jun  7 20:50:17 2013
From: jg at jordi.guillaumes.name (Jordi Guillaumes i Pons)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 02:50:17 +0200
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
In-Reply-To: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
Message-ID: <07B505C6-E44B-4F6B-B896-487BF8FD0FCB@jordi.guillaumes.name>


El 08/06/2013, a les 2:28, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com> va escriure:

> I believe that several folks are already running Rob Jarratt's DMC on VMS without any PAKs.  I don't know what version of VMS they are running though.  I suspect that V4.x didn't require PAKs for this stuff....

I run DDCMP over the simulated DMC lines under 4.7. But I have just set up a DMC-0 circuit under 7.3 (with no WAN PAK) and the link is alive and working right now...

[BTES01]$ sh sys
OpenVMS V7.3  on node BTES01   8-JUN-2013 02:48:38.04  Uptime  0 00:05:45
  Pid    Process Name    State  Pri      I/O       CPU       Page flts  Pages
00000201 SWAPPER         HIB     16        0   0 00:00:00.26         0      0
00000205 CONFIGURE       HIB      8        5   0 00:00:00.18       112    175                              
...

[BTES01]$ sh license *wan*

Active licenses on node BTES01:

------- Product ID --------    ---- Rating ----- -- Version --
Product            Producer    Units Avail Activ Version Release    Termination
ALLIN1-MAIL-WAN-SE DEC             0  0     100    0.0  (none)      18-APR-2014                        


NCP>show known circuits


Known Circuit Volatile Summary as of  8-JUN-2013 02:49:15

   Circuit          State                   Loopback     Adjacent
                                              Name      Routing Node

  DMC-0             on                                7.61 (BITXOO)
  TT-1-3            off                                                                      


Perhaps the routing license also enables the WAN devices?


Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES





From healyzh at aracnet.com  Fri Jun  7 20:59:26 2013
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 17:59:26 -0700
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
In-Reply-To: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <p06240858cdd82fd2e8d1@[192.168.1.199]>

At 8:10 PM -0400 6/7/13, Timothe Litt wrote:
>Second, many of our plans assume a decnet router.  VMS VAX requires 
>the DVNETRTG PAK to enable this.

Are your plans hobbyist related?  I rarely have time to read the 
list, but the subject caught my eye.

>I don't have current information, but 
>http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt 
><http://www.aracnet.com/%7Ehealyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt> suggests 
>that neither is in the Hobbyist PAK.  This may be because no one 
>thought they'd be of interest to hobbyists.  It's also possible that 
>this information has been superseded - it's 13 years old, so we need 
>to verify it.

I hear that the FAQ is so old that the author forgot he wrote it... 
Cool document, he should probably see about finding time to update 
it, though I also hear he has no free time.

The Hobbyist PAK's I got last year included DVNETRTG (what you need), 
DVNETEND, and DVNETEXT (used for extended functionality on DECnet/OSI 
on the Alpha).

>Third, VAX DECnet/OSI Phase V officially withdrew support for the 
>DMR11, DMV11, KMV1A, KMS1P and  KMS11 devices.
>I don't know if they stopped working, or just stopped being 
>supported.  DEC suggested DMR->Ethernet, DMV/KMV-> DSV and KMS -> 
>DMF32 as replacements. (The DMC had previously been retired as the 
>DMR was a more capable device, and the DMC had some ucode bugs.)
>
>This may mean that we have to use -11s for routers, if we can't get 
>HP to include these PAKs in the Hobbyist PAK for VMS.
>
>Of course, anyone who is replacing real hardware with an emulator 
>can (as I understand it) move PAKs from real hardware to their 
>emulator.
>
>We can probably find enough PAKs this way for development, but 
>someone will have to take on finding the right person in HP to help 
>create a real solution.  Since the folks who set up the hobbyist 
>program are long gone, it may be a challenge, even though I don't 
>see any reason for HP to refuse.
>
>Meantime, we should solve the technical problems first.  They're 
>probably easier...

What hardware and OS are you trying to implement DECnet Router on? 
BTW, IIRC, you need to run Phase IV for routing.  ISTR that is why I 
moved from DECnet/OSI Phase V to Phase IV at home.

Anyway, the real reason I jumped into this thread is that I have some 
interest in setting up a VAX emulator as a DECnet Router.  My 
VAXstation 4000's are to unstable anymore to function reliably as a 
router.

Zane




-- 
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com              | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Photographer               |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|                     My flickr Photostream                     |
|          http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/           |
|                    My Photography Website                     |
|               http://www.zanesphotography.com                 |


From jg at jordi.guillaumes.name  Fri Jun  7 21:02:52 2013
From: jg at jordi.guillaumes.name (Jordi Guillaumes i Pons)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 03:02:52 +0200
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306072030070.6007@maelona>
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306072030070.6007@maelona>
Message-ID: <6E442795-BE87-4DAD-AA4A-9B1D34D5A469@jordi.guillaumes.name>


El 08/06/2013, a les 2:30, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:

> 4.x needed a DECnet PAK.  I have it laying around if needed.

Actually, it needed a DECnet _PATCH_ :) distributed as a VMSINSTAL kit :) I have it around too.


Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES





From ethan.dicks at gmail.com  Fri Jun  7 21:07:21 2013
From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 21:07:21 -0400
Subject: [Simh] TA11/CAPS11 progress
In-Reply-To: <303A17BD5F8FA34DA45EEC245271AC0B8F48EB8A@JGEX2K10MBX2.wmata.local>
References: <51B239ED.7070801@supnik.org>
 <303A17BD5F8FA34DA45EEC245271AC0B8F48EB8A@JGEX2K10MBX2.wmata.local>
Message-ID: <CAALmimn5RUecu+1-pgTSOXH=1tNYh3OSn=19r49C6VwqC+5Wgw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Shoppa, Tim <tshoppa at wmata.com> wrote:
> For RT-11 V5.7 we made some effort to test all the drivers (including "unsupported" ones) but we never had TA11 hardware to test.

I have a TA-11 but no media.  Anyone know if it's possible to test
with audio cassettes?  I know "real" tapes have a notch to mate with a
tab on the drive to prevent cheap tapes from being loaded, but are
there any worrisome issues (abrasion/head wear, etc) with modifying a
cheap tape for light use/testing?

-ethan

From b4 at gewt.net  Fri Jun  7 21:12:33 2013
From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky)
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2013 01:12:33 -0000
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306072030070.6007@maelona>
 <6E442795-BE87-4DAD-AA4A-9B1D34D5A469@jordi.guillaumes.name>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306072112200.6007@maelona>


On Fri, 8 Jun 2013, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote:

>
>
> El 08/06/2013, a les 2:30, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
>
>> 4.x needed a DECnet PAK.  I have it laying around if needed.
>
> Actually, it needed a DECnet _PATCH_ :) distributed as a VMSINSTAL kit :) I have it around too.
>

Just a technicality. ;)

>
> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
> jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
> HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>

--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

From johnforecast at comcast.net  Fri Jun  7 22:07:31 2013
From: johnforecast at comcast.net (John Forecast)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 22:07:31 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 114, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.292.1370629753.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
References: <mailman.292.1370629753.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <C0FC9A73-0C34-46E3-B69B-5D2429195226@comcast.net>


On Jun 7, 2013, at 2:29 PM, simh-request at trailing-edge.com wrote:

> You wouldn't happen to have any of those old DECnet-11M tapes lying
> around, would you?  I've looked for archived distributions of DECnet-11/M
> prior to Phase IV many times and have never found a complete one.

	Regrettably no. I also would like to run some of the older distributions.

	  John.

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From petermallan at gmail.com  Sat Jun  8 04:58:38 2013
From: petermallan at gmail.com (Peter Allan)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 09:58:38 +0100
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD2@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
References: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com> <51B22673.2090206@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AC4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
 <51B25790.50804@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD2@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
Message-ID: <CAJCrz56G-OhpEK+du3Hhtiuxb7tD+wnThfJumh5yTirXfSuUtw@mail.gmail.com>

I can confirm that the DUP11 was supported by VMS since the first VAX that
I managed (a venerable VAX-11/780) had a DUP11 as its network interface.
The system ran VMS 3.x (and maybe 4.x) and it is possible that the driver
was part of the PSI software (which was the biggest culprit of system
crashes).

I am VERY interested in having both a DUP11 and DPV11 to add to my emulated
systems, so I await their availability with bated breath.

Cheers

Peter Allan


On 8 June 2013 01:17, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com> wrote:

> I concluded lack of DUP11 support since SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG.COM doesn?t
> mention the XW device (which the DUP11 would be called in VMS).  If someone
> has the pieces and they can be configured I?ll be glad to know, and it
> should be tested.****
>
> ** **
>
> The mention of the VAXBI and DWBUA requirement was probably due to the
> fact that all of the other Unibus systems were past ?End-Of-Life? when that
> SPD was written.  The DUP11 is a programmed I/O device which does nothing
> special on the bus.  It should work on any Unibus as long as there was
> software support.****
>
> ** **
>
> If someone has the software pieces and we can test I?ll be glad to know.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> The DUP11 simulator has partial support for also simulating the DPV11 on
> Qbus systems.  This has not been fully debugged yet.  There are enough
> interface differences here between the DUP11 and the DPV11 that VMS has
> different drivers.  I?ll announce when RSX11M+ using a DPV11 can talk to
> another RSX11M+ using a DUP11.****
>
> ** **
>
> **-          **Mark****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Timothe Litt [mailto:litt at ieee.org]
> *Sent:* Friday, June 07, 2013 2:59 PM
> *To:* Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm; simh at trailing-edge.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?****
>
> ** **
>
> >> I don?t think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.
>
> Yes, it was.  See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/spddecnetplusvax73.pdfpage 13 table 2.  DUP wasn't added in 7.3;  it would have been there all
> along.  This was just the first SPD I grabbed.  There were also sync line
> adapters for Microvax - I have one here, I think.  DSW4{1,2,3}.  And QBus
> (DPV/DSV, BI (DMB/DSB).  Gory details in the SPD.
>
> You needed the WAN Drivers layered product, though.
>
> ****
>
> The DUP11 is supported on a VAXBI system ?tted
> with a DWBUA UNIBUS adapter for VAX 8200, VAX
> 8250, VAX 8300, VAX 8300, VAX 8350, VAX 8500,
> VAX 8530, VAX 8550, VAX 8700, and VAX 8800 systems only****
>
>
> (Oddly, I didn't see DMC/DMR listed, but I do remember them working...)
>
> Yes, Phase V supported DDCMP as a transport layer.  No version change.
>
>
>
> ****
>
> This communication may not represent my employer's views,****
>
> if any, on the matters discussed. ****
>
> On 07-Jun-13 15:45, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:****
>
> I believe that the DUP11 emulation is working.  It has been tested
> minimally on RSX11M+ talking to RSX11M+.  Never having been a user of these
> systems I don?t have enough experience to do rigorous testing.  Anyone
> willing to test more rigorously is welcome.****
>
>  ****
>
> In theory, the DUP11 could work for VAX Unibus systems, however I don?t
> think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.  Maybe for DECnet Phase
> V, but I can?t seem to find support prior to that.  Even in the DECnet
> Phase V case, the DUP11 smiulation ONLY supports DDCMP on the wire and I
> don?t know if that was what DECnet Phase V spoke on the wire?  I welcome
> anyone with the experience to test.  Contact me offline for specific help.
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> The current code at github.com/simh/simh (downloadable as
> https://github.com/simh/simh/archive/master.zip) will build PDP11 and all
> the Unibus VAX simulators with DUP11 support.  If DDCMP on DUP11?s was
> never a supported protocol for VMS, we?ll probably remove the DUP from the
> VAX simulators before things settle down.****
>
>  ****
>
> As Rob and Tim have said, the KDP is still a work in progress.  The
> ultimate goal will be to have the KDP talk to other KDP?s and bare DUP11?s
> and the DMC11 all speaking DDCMP on the wire.****
>
>  ****
>
> The original KDP code spoke partial DDCMP on the wire (without DDCMP?s
> CRC?s) and as Tim mentions below, had numerous issues with some required OS
> interactions as well as correct observance of DDCMP?s packet boundaries in
> the data stream.****
>
>  ****
>
> Rob?s DMC11 implementation didn?t speak DDCMP on the wire at all.****
>
>  ****
>
> So work is ongoing to get each of these devices to talk a common language
> and to meet OS expectations..****
>
>  ****
>
> **-          **Mark****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com [
> mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com <simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Timothe Litt
> *Sent:* Friday, June 07, 2013 11:29 AM
> *To:* simh at trailing-edge.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?****
>
>  ****
>
> I?ve decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a
> KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months
> ago, but I?m not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy
> of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?****
>
> Here's what I know:
>
> Rob Jarrett ported a KDP simulation to the latest emulator.  It didn't
> quite work.  There's a personal repo on github, but it's not worth a
> pointer.
>
> I have 2 -10s and 2 -20s  configured for DECnet (and ANF-10) running on my
> desktop. (!)  No 11-based ANF nodes yet.
>
> I made some progress - I had ANF-10 up for an hour or so; DECnet-10 not at
> all; DECnet-20 sometimes.  The KDP emulation is missing some commands that
> the OSs count on.  My code isn't in the repo, yet.
>
> Mark Pizzolato has a DUP emulation that he says is mostly working on 11s
> and VMS.  Rather than keep two DUP emulations, the plan was to split the
> KDP into the KMC + DUP, rather like the real hardware.
>
> I've been off line for about the past 10 daze - e-mail appears and
> disappears on my servers - the responsible party calls it an 'upgrade', so
> I'm not sure what the current state pf the KDP/DMR work is.
>
> I have tracked down the COMIOP-DUP microcode USER's documentation with the
> help of Al Kossow and Cynde Moya, and it's on bitsavers along with the DMR
> tech manuals.  (Both even agree with my memory.)
>
>
> http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/AA-5670A-TC_COMM_IOP-DUP_Programming_Manual_Jan78.pdfand
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-TM-002_Jan81.pdf;
> also
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-UG-002_DMR11_Synchronous_Controller_Users_Guide_Dec80.pdf
>
> Once I catch up on e-mail, I'll see what I can do to help, depending on
> where Mark and Rob are.  (They may have given up on me  due to my on/off
> (mostly off) mail service.  Hopefully that's fixed.)
>
> I have 2,475 e-mail messages to sort thru before I'm up-to-date...but
> should have some time this weekend.  I hope.
>
>
>
> ****
>
> This communication may not represent my employer's views,****
>
> if any, on the matters discussed. ****
>
> On 07-Jun-13 13:36, Bob Armstrong wrote:****
>
>   I?ve decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a
> KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months
> ago, but I?m not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy
> of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?****
>
>  ****
>
> Thanks,****
>
> Bob Armstrong****
>
>  ****
>
>
>
>
>
> ****
>
> _______________________________________________****
>
> Simh mailing list****
>
> Simh at trailing-edge.com****
>
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh****
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
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From litt at ieee.org  Sat Jun  8 06:19:46 2013
From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt)
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2013 06:19:46 -0400
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
In-Reply-To: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
Message-ID: <51B30542.3020903@ieee.org>

> The DVNETRTG PAK is included in the Hobbyist license set I got from HP.
I'm glad that DVNETRTG is now in the Hobbyist license.

> I suspect that V4.x didn't require PAKs

IIRC, LMF (PAK licensing) was introduced in VMS V5.  Prior to LMF, it 
was the honor system; there was nothing to prevent accidentally 
installing a kit on another system. (And you needed a license to get 
support, and action taken if you were caught.)  Early VAXes were 
expensive enough that people were careful; the honor system worked.  I'm 
not sure if LMF came about because DEC had problems as VMS became more 
accessible, or because it feared them.

Before LMF, I think DECnet for the local node was standard in VMS; 
buying the ability to connect to another machine required a license and 
a kit that installed a patch to enable it.  (This scheme allowed decnet 
syntax in filenames even for non-networked machines, which was 
remarkably useful.)

(LMF was designed/explained not as a license enforcement tool, but as a 
tool to help administrators manage licenses.  Sorta like the $0.35 locks 
used on cars until recently - remind honest people to stay honest, and 
provide evidence of intent when thievery was detected.  LMF was probably 
a $1.50 lock by that standard.)
> Perhaps the routing license also enables the WAN devices?
No.  Where the WAN device kit is required, it needed its own PAK. They 
may have been split off from VMS in the V5.x timeframe.  I know that 
systems running V5.4 require this kit and PAK for sync line support on 
the 3900; I have the physical kit (and PAK) for my system.


This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.

On 07-Jun-13 20:28, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:
> On Friday, June 07, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Timothe Litt wrote:
>> I found an official DEC letter from 1992.
>>
>> First, VAX Wide Area Networking is a separate product.  The kit name is SYNC
>> (e.g. SYNC012 on the CDs).
>> It has a separate PAK - one of which is WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS.  The DUP for
>> HDLC and Bisync requires it, but apparently not for DDCMP.  But the
>> DMC/DMR and other sync lines do.
>>
>> Second, many of our plans assume a decnet router.  VMS VAX requires the
>> DVNETRTG PAK to enable this.
> The DVNETRTG PAK is included in the Hobbyist license set I got from HP.
>
> There is no PAK for WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS though.
>
> I believe that several folks are already running Rob Jarratt's DMC on VMS without any PAKs.  I don't know what version of VMS they are running though.  I suspect that V4.x didn't require PAKs for this stuff....
>
> - Mark
>


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From litt at ieee.org  Sat Jun  8 06:31:25 2013
From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt)
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2013 06:31:25 -0400
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
In-Reply-To: <p06240858cdd82fd2e8d1@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org> <p06240858cdd82fd2e8d1@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <51B307FD.8020400@ieee.org>

Inline

This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.

On 07-Jun-13 20:59, Zane H. Healy wrote:
> At 8:10 PM -0400 6/7/13, Timothe Litt wrote:
>> Second, many of our plans assume a decnet router.  VMS VAX requires 
>> the DVNETRTG PAK to enable this.
>
> Are your plans hobbyist related?  I rarely have time to read the list, 
> but the subject caught my eye.
My personal plans?  Yes.  Naturally people who use simh for other 
purposes need to get other licenses.  Most of the developers of simh use 
the hobbyist program for licensing DEC software, as do many of the users.
>
>> I don't have current information, but 
>> http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt 
>> <http://www.aracnet.com/%7Ehealyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt> suggests 
>> that neither is in the Hobbyist PAK.  This may be because no one 
>> thought they'd be of interest to hobbyists.  It's also possible that 
>> this information has been superseded - it's 13 years old, so we need 
>> to verify it.
>
> I hear that the FAQ is so old that the author forgot he wrote it... 
> Cool document, he should probably see about finding time to update it, 
> though I also hear he has no free time.
>
None of us admit to having free time...we'd get put to work if we did.  
Still, an update would be nice.
> The Hobbyist PAK's I got last year included DVNETRTG (what you need), 
> DVNETEND, and DVNETEXT (used for extended functionality on DECnet/OSI 
> on the Alpha).
>
Good to hear that oversight was fixed.  There was some discussion when 
the program was initiated (I had a minor role); the product managers 
were happy to see a community of users/expertise, but cautious about the 
potential for abuse.  Now that VAX/VMS is not in the mainstream, I think 
the case can be made for making all products available.  (Well, except 
those where HP would have to pay a royalty to someone else...there was a 
little of that.)
>> ...
>
> What hardware and OS are you trying to implement DECnet Router on? 
> BTW, IIRC, you need to run Phase IV for routing.  ISTR that is why I 
> moved from DECnet/OSI Phase V to Phase IV at home.
>
Hardware: DUP, KDP, DMC, DMR interfaces to start with.  Probably the 
QBus variants eventually.
Architecture/OS: All of them :-)
Right now, we're working on network device support for the PDP-10 - the 
particular hardware only has serial line DECnet.
Thus the interest in routing; that allows them to get to the ethernet, 
and thence the world.
And TOPS-10's ANF-10 network interconnects PDP-11s.

> Anyway, the real reason I jumped into this thread is that I have some 
> interest in setting up a VAX emulator as a DECnet Router.  My 
> VAXstation 4000's are to unstable anymore to function reliably as a 
> router.
>
Should work fine today on ethernet.  But sync lines are what's under way.
> Zane
>
>
>
>


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From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com  Sat Jun  8 09:56:56 2013
From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 09:56:56 -0400
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
In-Reply-To: <51B307FD.8020400@ieee.org>
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org> <p06240858cdd82fd2e8d1@192.168.1.199>
 <51B307FD.8020400@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <CAC5iaNGysPPecUZmsgLfwDOiyWQ5nTwVZ16tmc_UCk_Vh3-fXA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Timothe Litt <litt at ieee.org> wrote:
> Inline
>
>
> This communication may not represent my employer's views,
> if any, on the matters discussed.
>
> On 07-Jun-13 20:59, Zane H. Healy wrote:
>>
>> At 8:10 PM -0400 6/7/13, Timothe Litt wrote:
>>>
>>> Second, many of our plans assume a decnet router.  VMS VAX requires the
>>> DVNETRTG PAK to enable this.
>>
>>
>> Are your plans hobbyist related?  I rarely have time to read the list, but
>> the subject caught my eye.
>
> My personal plans?  Yes.  Naturally people who use simh for other purposes
> need to get other licenses.  Most of the developers of simh use the hobbyist
> program for licensing DEC software, as do many of the users.
>
>>
>>> I don't have current information, but
>>> http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt
>>> <http://www.aracnet.com/%7Ehealyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt> suggests that
>>> neither is in the Hobbyist PAK.  This may be because no one thought they'd
>>> be of interest to hobbyists.  It's also possible that this information has
>>> been superseded - it's 13 years old, so we need to verify it.
>>
>>
>> I hear that the FAQ is so old that the author forgot he wrote it... Cool
>> document, he should probably see about finding time to update it, though I
>> also hear he has no free time.
>>
> None of us admit to having free time...we'd get put to work if we did.
> Still, an update would be nice.
>
>> The Hobbyist PAK's I got last year included DVNETRTG (what you need),
>> DVNETEND, and DVNETEXT (used for extended functionality on DECnet/OSI on the
>> Alpha).
>>
> Good to hear that oversight was fixed.  There was some discussion when the
> program was initiated (I had a minor role); the product managers were happy
> to see a community of users/expertise, but cautious about the potential for
> abuse.  Now that VAX/VMS is not in the mainstream, I think the case can be
> made for making all products available.  (Well, except those where HP would
> have to pay a royalty to someone else...there was a little of that.)
>
>>> ...
>>
>>
>> What hardware and OS are you trying to implement DECnet Router on? BTW,
>> IIRC, you need to run Phase IV for routing.  ISTR that is why I moved from
>> DECnet/OSI Phase V to Phase IV at home.
>>
> Hardware: DUP, KDP, DMC, DMR interfaces to start with.  Probably the QBus
> variants eventually.
> Architecture/OS: All of them :-)
> Right now, we're working on network device support for the PDP-10 - the
> particular hardware only has serial line DECnet.
> Thus the interest in routing; that allows them to get to the ethernet, and
> thence the world.
> And TOPS-10's ANF-10 network interconnects PDP-11s.
>
>
>> Anyway, the real reason I jumped into this thread is that I have some
>> interest in setting up a VAX emulator as a DECnet Router.  My VAXstation
>> 4000's are to unstable anymore to function reliably as a router.
>>
> Should work fine today on ethernet.  But sync lines are what's under way.
>>
>> Zane
>>

Hello!
I gave the term DVNETRTG PAK to a search engine and with the
completely useless responses, plus one or two of useful responses this
one came up: http://www2.hmc.edu/www_common/OVMS073/v73/6496/6496pro.HTML
it must means something of a sort.

-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

From j at ckrubin.us  Mon Jun 10 03:01:31 2013
From: j at ckrubin.us (Jack Rubin)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 07:01:31 +0000
Subject: [Simh] "kiosk" mode for SIMH?
Message-ID: <de2040bd9cb043469ea7421d9963cf41@BLUPR05MB166.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

I'd like to set up a simulated pdp-11 for an exhibit; I'm running SIMH on a Raspberry Pi stuck inside a VT100. Is there a parameter to suppress the SIMH "banner" messages prior to the actual simulator boot message and after the simulator halt?

Thanks,
Jack

From b4 at gewt.net  Mon Jun 10 03:14:57 2013
From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 07:14:57 -0000
Subject: [Simh] "kiosk" mode for SIMH?
References: <de2040bd9cb043469ea7421d9963cf41@BLUPR05MB166.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306100314050.22863@maelona>


On Mon, 10 Jun 2013, Jack Rubin wrote:

>
> I'd like to set up a simulated pdp-11 for an exhibit; I'm running SIMH on a Raspberry Pi stuck inside a VT100. Is there a parameter to suppress the SIMH "banner" messages prior to the actual simulator boot message and after the simulator halt?
>

You could run simh behind the scenes with the console outputting to a 
different serial port.

> Thanks,
> Jack
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>

--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

From dott.piergiorgio at fastwebnet.it  Mon Jun 10 11:52:44 2013
From: dott.piergiorgio at fastwebnet.it (dott.Piergiorgio d' Errico)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 17:52:44 +0200
Subject: [Simh] "kiosk" mode for SIMH?
In-Reply-To: <de2040bd9cb043469ea7421d9963cf41@BLUPR05MB166.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <de2040bd9cb043469ea7421d9963cf41@BLUPR05MB166.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <51B5F64C.5010007@fastwebnet.it>

Il 10/06/2013 09:01, Jack Rubin ha scritto:
> I'd like to set up a simulated pdp-11 for an exhibit; I'm running
> SIMH on a Raspberry Pi stuck inside a VT100. Is there a parameter to
> suppress the SIMH "banner" messages prior to the actual simulator
> boot message and after the simulator halt?

Currently, not; but being an OS software, adding a -q or -v0 switch 
should be really simple... I guess everyone here can post his rendition 
(if not more than one..) of the patch needed ;)

(yes, I'm actually suggesting a coding contest :D )

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio

From sm0oom at bredband.net  Sat Jun 15 17:05:27 2013
From: sm0oom at bredband.net (Mats Persson)
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:05:27 +0200
Subject: [Simh] Nova and Asynchronous Multiplexers
Message-ID: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>

Hi,

I have not been able to figure out how to use the terminal multiplexers on the 
Nova simulator. Using the standard Telnet client on Ubuntu 12.04 I get as far 
as the message "Connected to the NOVA simulator ALM device, line 0" but after 
that there is no response.

I'm using the RDOS disk image that is available on the Software Kits page 
(rdos_d31.dsk). Since I'm by no means an RDOS expert it may well be an RDOS 
configuration problem. I have the same problem with the second terminal (TTI1 
and TTO1).

I have compiled the latest SIMH release (V3.9-0) on 64-bit Ubuntu 12.04. The 
results are the same using the version that comes with Ubuntu or using a 32-
bit platform.

Does anyone have a clue how to get this working?

/Mats

From bob at jfcl.com  Tue Jun 18 00:00:16 2013
From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 21:00:16 -0700
Subject: [Simh] Subtle H316 TTY interrupt bug?
Message-ID: <00bd01ce6bd8$57945550$06bcfff0$@com>

  I need an H316 expert to confirm this for me, but I think there's a subtle
bug in the way simh handles the TTY output mode switch (Yes, the 316 has a
half duplex console terminal interface!) and interrupts.

 

 
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/series16/h316/70130072176C_
316_CPU_Descr_Apr73.pdf

 

is a description of the H316 CPU logic and the very end, around page 2-31
thru 37, talk about the TTY interface.  In particular, 2-37 describes the
"dummy cycle" that's inserted when hardware is switched from input to output
mode, and 2-38 even has a timing diagram to show how it happens. 

 

  Consider the two instruction sequence

 

               OCP       104                       / SELECT TTY OUTPUT MODE

               OTA       4                            / OUTPUT A CHARACTER

 

Assuming the interrupt system is enabled and that the TTY interface is
currently idle, simh is written to interrupt immediately after the OCP 104
and before the OTA.  That means that the code effectively gets an output
done interrupt before the output is ever started!  Based on the description
in the above manual, I'm pretty sure this is wrong.  The "dummy cycle"
inserts a delay between the OCP and the flag setting, and by that time the
OTA has been executed, the output flag is cleared, and there's never any
interrupt asserted by the OCP.  No interrupt occurs until the character
output is actually finished.

 

  So, is there an H316 expert out there that can confirm this theory for me?

 

Thanks

Bob

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From quentin at quentin.org.uk  Tue Jun 18 10:29:59 2013
From: quentin at quentin.org.uk (Quentin North)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:29:59 +0100
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 ptr device
In-Reply-To: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>
References: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>
Message-ID: <69EE207D-AF4F-4893-B835-60823785EBF9@quentin.org.uk>

Hi

Has anyone got the simh ptr device to read a "paper tape" file on the HP2100? 

I seem to be having problems getting a ptr to read when using HP Access system with the ptr attached to the IOP HP2100. Access reports the PR0 device as not ready, but all indications on the IOP HP2100 simh console are that the input file is open and the ptr is attached. This is confirmed by using lsof on the input file which shows it as opened by the HP2100 IOP process. Using simh v39-0.

All help appreciated,

Thanks

From jdbryan at acm.org  Wed Jun 19 00:04:44 2013
From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 00:04:44 -0400
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 ptr device
In-Reply-To: <69EE207D-AF4F-4893-B835-60823785EBF9@quentin.org.uk>
References: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>,
 <69EE207D-AF4F-4893-B835-60823785EBF9@quentin.org.uk>
Message-ID: <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 at 15:29, Quentin North wrote:

> Has anyone got the simh ptr device to read a "paper tape" file on the
> HP2100?

I use the paper tape reader regularly under DOS and RTE to load both source 
and binary tape images.  Also, as documented in "hp2100_diag.txt", the PTR 
device passes the paper tape reader diagnostic.

That said, I've never tried to use it under TSB.


> I seem to be having problems getting a ptr to read when using HP
> Access system with the ptr attached to the IOP HP2100. Access reports
> the PR0 device as not ready, but all indications on the IOP HP2100 simh
> console are that the input file is open and the ptr is attached. 

What does the DEVICE command report?  And is SIMH configured to put the 
paper tape reader on the same select code as is reported by DEVICE?

                                      -- Dave


From quentin at quentin.org.uk  Wed Jun 19 04:52:56 2013
From: quentin at quentin.org.uk (Quentin North)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:52:56 +0100
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 ptr device
In-Reply-To: <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>
 <69EE207D-AF4F-4893-B835-60823785EBF9@quentin.org.uk>
 <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A07944B9-4748-4F9C-8C93-C105F2D1CB90@quentin.org.uk>

Hi Dave

TSB is reporting PR0 on select code 16 which is at same as the assigned device on the IOP. the only slight question in my mind about that is that the may ape device on the main processor is also select code 16 and I wonder if that is the issue?

Sent from my iPad

On 19 Jun 2013, at 05:04, "J. David Bryan" <jdbryan at acm.org> wrote:

> On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 at 15:29, Quentin North wrote:
> 
>> Has anyone got the simh ptr device to read a "paper tape" file on the
>> HP2100?
> 
> I use the paper tape reader regularly under DOS and RTE to load both source 
> and binary tape images.  Also, as documented in "hp2100_diag.txt", the PTR 
> device passes the paper tape reader diagnostic.
> 
> That said, I've never tried to use it under TSB.
> 
> 
>> I seem to be having problems getting a ptr to read when using HP
>> Access system with the ptr attached to the IOP HP2100. Access reports
>> the PR0 device as not ready, but all indications on the IOP HP2100 simh
>> console are that the input file is open and the ptr is attached.
> 
> What does the DEVICE command report?  And is SIMH configured to put the 
> paper tape reader on the same select code as is reported by DEVICE?
> 
>                                      -- Dave
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

From quentin at quentin.org.uk  Wed Jun 19 04:56:39 2013
From: quentin at quentin.org.uk (Quentin North)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:56:39 +0100
Subject: [Simh] GE are hiring PDP-11 assembler programmers
In-Reply-To: <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>
 <69EE207D-AF4F-4893-B835-60823785EBF9@quentin.org.uk>
 <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <18A45BD9-4927-4D31-B772-55A6C68FE671@quentin.org.uk>

I don't know if anyone else has picked up on this, but GE Canada are hiring PDP-11 assembler programmers.  More details via this news article http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/


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From quentin at quentin.org.uk  Wed Jun 19 04:58:02 2013
From: quentin at quentin.org.uk (Quentin North)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:58:02 +0100
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 ptr device
In-Reply-To: <A07944B9-4748-4F9C-8C93-C105F2D1CB90@quentin.org.uk>
References: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>
 <69EE207D-AF4F-4893-B835-60823785EBF9@quentin.org.uk>
 <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <A07944B9-4748-4F9C-8C93-C105F2D1CB90@quentin.org.uk>
Message-ID: <61714F01-7319-43E5-B4C2-0ECAE2B1108F@quentin.org.uk>

Curse the auto correct. I of course meant that the MT0 tape device on the main processor is also on select code 16. 

Sent from my iPad

On 19 Jun 2013, at 09:52, Quentin North <quentin at quentin.org.uk> wrote:

> Hi Dave
> 
> TSB is reporting PR0 on select code 16 which is at same as the assigned device on the IOP. the only slight question in my mind about that is that the may ape device on the main processor is also select code 16 and I wonder if that is the issue?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 19 Jun 2013, at 05:04, "J. David Bryan" <jdbryan at acm.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 at 15:29, Quentin North wrote:
>> 
>>> Has anyone got the simh ptr device to read a "paper tape" file on the
>>> HP2100?
>> 
>> I use the paper tape reader regularly under DOS and RTE to load both source 
>> and binary tape images.  Also, as documented in "hp2100_diag.txt", the PTR 
>> device passes the paper tape reader diagnostic.
>> 
>> That said, I've never tried to use it under TSB.
>> 
>> 
>>> I seem to be having problems getting a ptr to read when using HP
>>> Access system with the ptr attached to the IOP HP2100. Access reports
>>> the PR0 device as not ready, but all indications on the IOP HP2100 simh
>>> console are that the input file is open and the ptr is attached.
>> 
>> What does the DEVICE command report?  And is SIMH configured to put the 
>> paper tape reader on the same select code as is reported by DEVICE?
>> 
>>                                     -- Dave
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Simh mailing list
>> Simh at trailing-edge.com
>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

From bqt at softjar.se  Wed Jun 19 05:27:38 2013
From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:27:38 +0200
Subject: [Simh] GE are hiring PDP-11 assembler programmers
In-Reply-To: <18A45BD9-4927-4D31-B772-55A6C68FE671@quentin.org.uk>
References: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>
 <69EE207D-AF4F-4893-B835-60823785EBF9@quentin.org.uk>
 <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <18A45BD9-4927-4D31-B772-55A6C68FE671@quentin.org.uk>
Message-ID: <51C1798A.9030609@softjar.se>

On 2013-06-19 10:56, Quentin North wrote:
> I don't know if anyone else has picked up on this, but GE Canada are
> hiring PDP-11 assembler programmers.  More details via this news article
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/

They are free to contact me. :-)

	Johnny


From bob at supnik.org  Wed Jun 19 18:15:42 2013
From: bob at supnik.org (Bob Supnik)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 18:15:42 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Subtle H316 TTY interrupt bug?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <51C22D8E.7040108@supnik.org>

Yes, this is a bug.

OCP triggers a delay cycle of some time during which TTY interrupts are 
suppressed. This is to allow time to get the first character out. READY 
does set as a result of the OCP, so interrupt suppression happens by 
other means. Adrian Wise's simulator does this by manipulating the SMK 
mask, but the hardware doesn't works that way.

The interrupt logic is conditioned by the combination of READY and 
!BUSY. This is confirmed by schematic LBD 0.342, where a 3 input AND 
gate generates PIL00 (program interrupt) if SMK11 is set, READY is set, 
and BUSY is clear. It seems strange to have the interrupt logic 
distributed out to the individual IO interfaces, but that's the way the 
H316 worked, apparently.

So with READY and BUSY in the picture, operations are as follows:

OCP '4 - clear READY (and any interrupt), BUSY, and the data buffer; 
clear output mode
         - wait for a character
         - as the character starts to come in, set BUSY
         - when the character is complete, set READY, clear BUSY, and 
request an interrupt if enabled
INA    - read the buffer, clear READY (and any interrupt)

Note that OCP '4 goes into input mode, and clears READY, BUSY, and the 
buffer, even if input mode is already set. Also, SimH doesn't simulate 
the "busy" period on inputs; it probably should.

Output has two flow diagrams, depending on whether the OTA is issued 
before the dummy cycle expires, or after.

OCP '0 - set READY and BUSY (clear interrupt), clear the buffer, start a 
dummy output

Now, if OTA follows during the dummy character time:

OTA - clear READY, set BUSY, clear interrupt, load the buffer, start a 
real output sequence
     - output the character
     - when output completes, set READY, clear BUSY, and request an 
interrupt if enabled

If OTA does not happen soon enough, then at the end of the dummy 
character time:

     - clear BUSY, READY stays set, interrupt happens if enabled

Note that this behavior is NOT what Adrian's simulator does, from what I 
can tell, but the timing diagram shows that READY stays set after BUSY 
clears, and that will generate an interrupt according to the logic diagrams.

So the fixes for the TTY are as follows:

1. Add an explicit BUSY flop, cleared on RESET.
2. Remove the test for output -> input transition on OCP '4. This starts 
an input sequence unconditionally.
3. Modify input service processing to use two states. In the first, BUSY 
gets set. In the second, BUSY is cleared, READY is set, and an interrupt 
is generated if enabled.
4. Modify SKS processing to test the BUSY flop directly, rather than the 
state of the TTY units.
5. Modify OCP '0 to start a dummy sequence by setting READY and BUSY, 
and clearing interrupt request. This too is unconditional.
6. Modify OTA processing to cancel any dummy sequence in process before 
starting output.
7. Modify output service processing to check for dummy sequence (READY 
and BUSY both set). If they are, simply clear BUSY and update interrupt 
status.
8. Check for interactions with the ASR functionality.

And of course...

9. Make sure that interrupt requests always reflect READY & !BUSY equation.

Verifying all this will be interesting.

/Bob Supnik

On 6/19/2013 4:56 AM, simh-request at trailing-edge.com wrote:
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 21:00:16 -0700
> From: "Bob Armstrong"<bob at jfcl.com>
> To:<simh at trailing-edge.com>
> Subject: [Simh] Subtle H316 TTY interrupt bug?
> Message-ID: <00bd01ce6bd8$57945550$06bcfff0$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>    I need an H316 expert to confirm this for me, but I think there's a subtle
> bug in the way simh handles the TTY output mode switch (Yes, the 316 has a
> half duplex console terminal interface!) and interrupts.
>
>   
>
>   
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/series16/h316/70130072176C_
> 316_CPU_Descr_Apr73.pdf
>
>   
>
> is a description of the H316 CPU logic and the very end, around page 2-31
> thru 37, talk about the TTY interface.  In particular, 2-37 describes the
> "dummy cycle" that's inserted when hardware is switched from input to output
> mode, and 2-38 even has a timing diagram to show how it happens.
>
>   
>
>    Consider the two instruction sequence
>
>   
>
>                 OCP       104                       / SELECT TTY OUTPUT MODE
>
>                 OTA       4                            / OUTPUT A CHARACTER
>
>   
>
> Assuming the interrupt system is enabled and that the TTY interface is
> currently idle, simh is written to interrupt immediately after the OCP 104
> and before the OTA.  That means that the code effectively gets an output
> done interrupt before the output is ever started!  Based on the description
> in the above manual, I'm pretty sure this is wrong.  The "dummy cycle"
> inserts a delay between the OCP and the flag setting, and by that time the
> OTA has been executed, the output flag is cleared, and there's never any
> interrupt asserted by the OCP.  No interrupt occurs until the character
> output is actually finished.
>
>   
>
>    So, is there an H316 expert out there that can confirm this theory for me?
>
>   
>
> Thanks
>
> Bob


From jdbryan at acm.org  Wed Jun 19 23:51:03 2013
From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:51:03 -0400
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 ptr device
In-Reply-To: <A07944B9-4748-4F9C-8C93-C105F2D1CB90@quentin.org.uk>
References: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>,
 <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>,
 <A07944B9-4748-4F9C-8C93-C105F2D1CB90@quentin.org.uk>
Message-ID: <E1UpVtm-00088w-Jw@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi Quentin,


On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 at 9:52, Quentin North wrote:

> TSB is reporting PR0 on select code 16 which is at same as the assigned
> device on the IOP.

OK.


> the only slight question in my mind about that is that the [MT0 tape]
> device on the main processor is also select code 16 and I wonder if
> that is the issue? 

It shouldn't be, but then I know next to nothing about TSB.

Are you using Mike Gemeny's Access configuration, or did you configure your 
own IOP from the Bitsavers HP collection?  If the former, it might pay to 
ask Mike if he has observed the paper tape reader working.

One generic problem that affects the HP simulator (and probably all other 
simulators) is that the default timing for I/O devices is abnormally fast.  
For example, the PTR device defaults to reading a character every 100 CPU 
instructions.  An HP 1000 E-Series executes about 1580 instructions per 
millisecond, so the PTR device interrupts about every 63 microseconds of 
simulated time, giving an equivalent of 15800 characters per second.  A 
real HP 2748 ran at 500 cps, resulting in an interrupt every two 
milliseconds.

Most software can adapt to the much faster interrupt rate.  However, I have 
seen some drivers that "know" that a certain device will not be ready to 
interrupt until at least "x" microseconds have elapsed and that will fail 
if the rate is significantly faster.

See, for example, this explanation:

  http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/pipermail/simh/2008-February/004603.html

Regrettably, I'm right in the middle of an office move, so I won't have 
time to look into your problem in detail until after July 1.  However, you 
might try:

  deposit PTR TIME 3160

...which would set the 2748 interrupt timing to correspond with the 
hardware.

If that doesn't work, feel free to take this offline, and we'll summarize 
the solution for the list once we establish it.

                                      -- Dave


From bob at jfcl.com  Thu Jun 20 00:01:43 2013
From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:01:43 -0700
Subject: [Simh] Subtle H316 TTY interrupt bug?
In-Reply-To: <51C22D8E.7040108@supnik.org>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <51C22D8E.7040108@supnik.org>
Message-ID: <004f01ce6d6a$e04d8220$a0e88660$@com>

Bob -

  Thanks for checking this out.  Did you actually pull out the H316
schematics and work it out?  I'm impressed - I was too lazy to do that!

  FWIW, I've "fixed" my copy of simh by the simple expedient of using
INT_NODIS to disable interrupts for one instruction after any OCP 4 that
switches to output mode.  (This is the same interrupt flag the ENB
instruction uses to defer interrupts for one instruction.)  It's a fairly
trivial mod to the code - in file stddev.c, routine ttyio(), modify the code
like this -

        if (fnc && (tty_mode == 0)) {                   /* input to output?
*/
            if (!sim_is_active (&tty_unit[TTO])) {      /* set ready */
                SET_INT (0,INT_TTY);
		    // [RLA] Fix the "dummy cycle" problem (see above!)...
		    CLR_INT (0,INT_NODEF);  // [RLA]
	    }
            tty_mode = 1;                               /* mode is output */


Admittedly this is not exactly what the real hardware does, but it's a close
enough approximation to solve the immediate problem and it's easy to
implement.  I don't believe it has any bad side effects.

  FWIW, I'm trying to resurrect some real H316 software that uses exactly
the OCP 104/ OTA 4 sequence described, so it's not entirely an academic
concern.  

  Thanks again for double checking this.

Bob Armstrong


From bob at supnik.org  Thu Jun 20 11:16:41 2013
From: bob at supnik.org (Bob Supnik)
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 11:16:41 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Subtle H316 TTY interrupt bug?
In-Reply-To: <004f01ce6d6a$e04d8220$a0e88660$@com>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <51C22D8E.7040108@supnik.org> <004f01ce6d6a$e04d8220$a0e88660$@com>
Message-ID: <51C31CD9.9010402@supnik.org>

Yes, I got out the schematics. Fortunately the interrupt logic was well 
isolated and relatively easy to read. Because the H16's used 3 input AND 
gates for almost everything, trying to figure out what's going on in 
complex logic is a nightmare. I had to do that to figure out how the 
generic instructions really worked, and I never want to do it again.

Your hack is fine for now, but who knows if there's some other program 
that actually depends on a 2- or 3- or longer instruction window? I find 
it's always best to reproduce the hardware, hack for hack. (See my paper 
on PDP11 interrupts, 
http://simh.trailing-edge.com/docs/pdp11interrupts.pdf.)

/Bob

On 6/20/2013 12:01 AM, Bob Armstrong wrote:
> Bob -
>
>    Thanks for checking this out.  Did you actually pull out the H316
> schematics and work it out?  I'm impressed - I was too lazy to do that!
>
>    FWIW, I've "fixed" my copy of simh by the simple expedient of using
> INT_NODIS to disable interrupts for one instruction after any OCP 4 that
> switches to output mode.  (This is the same interrupt flag the ENB
> instruction uses to defer interrupts for one instruction.)  It's a fairly
> trivial mod to the code - in file stddev.c, routine ttyio(), modify the code
> like this -
>
>          if (fnc && (tty_mode == 0)) {                   /* input to output?
> */
>              if (!sim_is_active (&tty_unit[TTO])) {      /* set ready */
>                  SET_INT (0,INT_TTY);
> 		    // [RLA] Fix the "dummy cycle" problem (see above!)...
> 		    CLR_INT (0,INT_NODEF);  // [RLA]
> 	    }
>              tty_mode = 1;                               /* mode is output */
>
>
> Admittedly this is not exactly what the real hardware does, but it's a close
> enough approximation to solve the immediate problem and it's easy to
> implement.  I don't believe it has any bad side effects.
>
>    FWIW, I'm trying to resurrect some real H316 software that uses exactly
> the OCP 104/ OTA 4 sequence described, so it's not entirely an academic
> concern.
>
>    Thanks again for double checking this.
>
> Bob Armstrong
>
>


From lbickley at bickleywest.com  Fri Jun 21 02:37:45 2013
From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley)
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 23:37:45 -0700
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 - 12821A
In-Reply-To: <51C31CD9.9010402@supnik.org>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <51C22D8E.7040108@supnik.org> <004f01ce6d6a$e04d8220$a0e88660$@com>
 <51C31CD9.9010402@supnik.org>
Message-ID: <20130620233745.515271bb@asrock.bcwi.net>

I've recently upgraded my "real" HP1000 Series F with a 12821A
connected to a CS/80 drive. This configuration is supported by RTE VI,
with the CS/80 drive as the boot device.

Unfortunately, SIMH currently does not support CS/80 drives connected
to a 12821A interface.

1. Has anybody already looked at what it would take to do this?
2, Or already has some alpha/beta code written to do so?

If neither of the above - some cursory thoughts as to how one might
implement this feature...

Thanks!

Cheers,
Lyle
-- 
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com

"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

From jdbryan at acm.org  Sat Jun 22 01:11:49 2013
From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan)
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 01:11:49 -0400
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 - 12821A
In-Reply-To: <20130620233745.515271bb@asrock.bcwi.net>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>,
 <51C31CD9.9010402@supnik.org>, <20130620233745.515271bb@asrock.bcwi.net>
Message-ID: <E1UqG74-0006Oy-1L@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Lyle,


On Thursday, June 20, 2013 at 23:37, Lyle Bickley wrote:

> Unfortunately, SIMH currently does not support CS/80 drives connected
> to a 12821A interface.
> 
> 1. Has anybody already looked at what it would take to do this?

Yes.  For 3.9-0, I added the 7906H/20H/25H ICD drives interfaced via the 
12821A card.  The intent was to create the framework for subsequently 
adding CS/80 disc and Amigo tape drives via the 12821A interface while 
first leveraging the disc simulation work from the 13037 MAC controller 
discs (hp2100_ds.c).


> 2, Or already has some alpha/beta code written to do so?

No, although there is a future plan to address this.


> If neither of the above - some cursory thoughts as to how one might
> implement this feature...

With an eye toward future HP-IB interfacing, the ICD implementation 
partitioned the simulation into a library of disc functions (hp_disclib.c), 
the generic 12821A interface (hp2100_di.c), and separate "personality" 
modules for the Amigo disc, CS/80 disc, and Amigo tape peripherals (the 
existing hp2100_di_da.c, and the future hp2100_di_dc.c and hp2100_di_ma.c 
files).  Adding a CS/80 disc simulation would be a matter of implementing 
hp2100_di_dc.c and tying it into the disc library and 12821A simulation.

The comments in the files describe the partitioning.  If I may answer any 
additional questions, please do not hesitate to ask.


> Thanks!

You're welcome.

                                      -- Dave


From adrian at adrianwise.co.uk  Sat Jun 22 15:35:15 2013
From: adrian at adrianwise.co.uk (Adrian Wise)
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 20:35:15 +0100
Subject: [Simh] Subtle H316 TTY interrupt bug? (Bob Supnik)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.318.1371877912.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
References: <mailman.318.1371877912.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <51C5FC73.8040706@adrianwise.co.uk>

Interesting question. This spurred me into action to get the ASR 
interface from netlisted schematics to work with the H316 CPU that I've 
had simulating for a while. In the process finding a few more bugs in 
the schematics - both of the ASR interface and the CPU itself.

For the record you can see (an image of) simulation results illustrating 
the point in question here:

http://www.series16.adrianwise.co.uk/hardware/images/ASR_simulation.png

running the code pasted below. (I've wound the baud rate up to 9600, 
since the simulations take a *really* long time at 110 baud.)

(Or download the schematics and run it yourself, if you'd like to dig 
around in a waveform viewer.)

So, I can confirm Bob Supnik's analysis, both in Verilog simulation, and 
also ran it on real hardware (a DDP516).

Also I agree that my simulator, like simh, doesn't properly model the 
Dummy cycle.

 > From: "Bob Armstrong" <bob at jfcl.com>
 > ...
 >    FWIW, I'm trying to resurrect some real H316 software that uses 
exactly
 > the OCP 104/ OTA 4 sequence described, so it's not entirely an academic
 > concern.

It's probably worth pointing out that any program that actually relies 
on this behaviour is itself faulty - it has a race.

The issue, to recap, is if you (with interrupts turned on and masked 
correctly) put the ASR interface into output mode, and then immediately 
write a character to the ASR interface. This is a race, because you're 
gambling on reaching the OTA that outputs a character in the main thread 
before the one in the interrupt service routine.

Most of the time you'll win - but we're working with interrupts turned 
on, and if some other, unrelated, interrupt is serviced (or perhaps even 
a DMA/DMC request is serviced) which places a significant delay between 
the OCP to select output mode and the OTA, you'll lose - and the first 
character output by the ISR (and probably several others too) will be 
output before the one from the main thread.

It's also a really weird thing to want to do. If you've decided to put 
the message you want printing in a buffer and use interrupts to print 
it, why would you want to special-case the first character by sending it 
from the main program?

Test program for code run in simulation:
ABS                                                             PAGE    1



     0001                         ABS
     0002                         ORG   '1000
     0003 01000   34 0104         SKS   '104              READY?
     0004 01001   0 01 01000      JMP   *-1
     0005 01002   14 0004         OCP   '4                START IN INPUT 
MODE
     0006 01003   0 02 01027      LDA   PINT
     0007 01004   0 04 00063      STA   '63               SET UP INTERRUPT
     0008 01005   0 02 01053      LDA   ='000040          BIT 11 SET
     0009 01006   74 0020         SMK   '20               SET MASK
     0010 01007   140040          CRA
     0011 01010   0 04 01030      STA   CNT               CLEAR COUNTER
     0012 01011   000401          ENB                     ENABLE INTERRUPTS
     0013 01012   0 35 01052      LDX   =-200
     0014 01013   0 12 00000      IRS   0                 WAIT A BIT
     0015 01014   0 01 01013      JMP   *-1
     0016 01015   34 0104         SKS   '104              READY?
     0017 01016   0 01 01015      JMP   *-1
     0018 01017   0 35 01052      LDX   =-200
     0019 01020   0 12 00000      IRS   0                 WAIT A BIT
     0020 01021   0 01 01020      JMP   *-1
     0021 01022   0 02 01051      LDA   ='360             'P' - 4 HI 
BITS, 4 LO
     0022 01023   14 0104         OCP   '104              OUTPUT MODE
     0023 01024   74 0004         OTA   '4
     0024 01025   0 01 01024      JMP   *-1
     0025 01026   0 01 01026      JMP   *                 WAIT FOR EVER
     0026                    *
     0027 01027   0 001033   PINT DAC   INTR
     0028 01030   000000     CNT  OCT   0
     0029 01031              SA   BSS   1
     0030 01032              SK   BSS   1
     0031                    *
     0032 01033   0 001033   INTR DAC   *
     0033 01034   0 04 01031      STA   SA
     0034 01035   000043          INK
     0035 01036   0 04 01032      STA   SK
     0036 01037   0 12 01030      IRS   CNT
     0037 01040   0 02 01050      LDA   ='325             'U' - 
ALTERNATE HI/LO BITS
     0038 01041   74 0004         OTA   '4
     0039 01042   0 01 01041      JMP   *-1
     0040 01043   0 02 01032      LDA   SK
     0041 01044   171020          OTK
     0042 01045   0 02 01031      LDA   SA
     0043 01046   000401          ENB
     0044 01047  -0 01 01033      JMP*  INTR
     0045 01050   000325          END
          01051   000360
          01052   177470
          01053   000040



                                 ABS 
                           PAGE    2



     CNT    001030A   INTR   001033A   PINT   001027A   SA     001031A
     SK     001032A
     0000 WARNING OR ERROR FLAGS
     DAP-16 MOD 2    REV. C    01-26-71


From bob at jfcl.com  Sat Jun 22 16:11:14 2013
From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong)
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 13:11:14 -0700
Subject: [Simh] Subtle H316 TTY interrupt bug? (Bob Supnik)
In-Reply-To: <51C5FC73.8040706@adrianwise.co.uk>
References: <mailman.318.1371877912.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <51C5FC73.8040706@adrianwise.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002b01ce6f84$a61b5b60$f2521220$@com>

>Adrian Wise wrote:
>Most of the time you'll win - but we're working with interrupts turned on,
> and if some other, unrelated, interrupt is serviced 

  I wondered about that too.  I agree with you and I'd assume that if
another unrelated interrupt came in you'd be in trouble.  This particular
program only uses TTY interrupts (they're individually maskable with SMK
after all), so it's safe in that regard.

  The H316 manual I referenced specifically points out this special property
of an OCP immediately followed by OTA, so I'd have to assume Honeywell
intended for people to use it.  

Bob


From lbickley at bickleywest.com  Sun Jun 23 14:06:56 2013
From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley)
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 11:06:56 -0700
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 - 12821A
In-Reply-To: <E1UqG74-0006Oy-1L@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <51C31CD9.9010402@supnik.org>
 <20130620233745.515271bb@asrock.bcwi.net>
 <E1UqG74-0006Oy-1L@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20130623110656.08f81ed5@asrock.bcwi.net>

On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 01:11:49 -0400
"J. David Bryan" <jdbryan at acm.org> wrote:

> Lyle,
> 
> 
> On Thursday, June 20, 2013 at 23:37, Lyle Bickley wrote:
> 
> > Unfortunately, SIMH currently does not support CS/80 drives
> > connected to a 12821A interface.
> > 
> > 1. Has anybody already looked at what it would take to do this?
> 
> Yes.  For 3.9-0, I added the 7906H/20H/25H ICD drives interfaced via
> the 12821A card.  The intent was to create the framework for
> subsequently adding CS/80 disc and Amigo tape drives via the 12821A
> interface while first leveraging the disc simulation work from the
> 13037 MAC controller discs (hp2100_ds.c).

Great!

> > 2, Or already has some alpha/beta code written to do so?
> 
> No, although there is a future plan to address this.

Excellent!

> > If neither of the above - some cursory thoughts as to how one might
> > implement this feature...
> 
> With an eye toward future HP-IB interfacing, the ICD implementation 
> partitioned the simulation into a library of disc functions
> (hp_disclib.c), the generic 12821A interface (hp2100_di.c), and
> separate "personality" modules for the Amigo disc, CS/80 disc, and
> Amigo tape peripherals (the existing hp2100_di_da.c, and the future
> hp2100_di_dc.c and hp2100_di_ma.c files).  Adding a CS/80 disc
> simulation would be a matter of implementing hp2100_di_dc.c and tying
> it into the disc library and 12821A simulation.
> 
> The comments in the files describe the partitioning.  If I may answer
> any additional questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

I'll check them out.

Thanks for the fast response!

Cheers,
Lyle

-- 
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com

"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

From jdbryan at acm.org  Sun Jun 23 18:58:24 2013
From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan)
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 18:58:24 -0400
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 - 12821A
In-Reply-To: <20130623110656.08f81ed5@asrock.bcwi.net>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>,
 <E1UqG74-0006Oy-1L@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>,
 <20130623110656.08f81ed5@asrock.bcwi.net>
Message-ID: <E1UqtEf-0004h1-5A@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Lyle,


On Sunday, June 23, 2013 at 11:06, Lyle Bickley wrote:

> I'll check them out.

A CS/80 implementation would generally follow the same model as the ICD 
implementation in hp2100_di_da.c.  That is, the module would interpret the 
HP-IB secondaries as received from the 12821A interface as CS/80 commands, 
pick up the associated parameter data bytes, and then call the appropriate 
HP disc library routines (e.g., seek, read, write, etc.) to execute the 
commands.  The ICD module does this for the Amigo command set; I would 
expect the CS/80 version to contain about 70% of the same code, with the 
rest handling the differences between the Amigo and CS/80 command sets.


> Thanks for the fast response!

You're welcome.

                                      -- Dave


From lbickley at bickleywest.com  Sun Jun 23 20:33:11 2013
From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley)
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 17:33:11 -0700
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 - 12821A
In-Reply-To: <E1UqtEf-0004h1-5A@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <E1UqG74-0006Oy-1L@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20130623110656.08f81ed5@asrock.bcwi.net>
 <E1UqtEf-0004h1-5A@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20130623173311.40dd9af2@asrock.bcwi.net>

Dave, et al,

On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 18:58:24 -0400
"J. David Bryan" <jdbryan at acm.org> wrote:

> Lyle,
> 
> 
> On Sunday, June 23, 2013 at 11:06, Lyle Bickley wrote:
> 
> > I'll check them out.
> 
> A CS/80 implementation would generally follow the same model as the
> ICD implementation in hp2100_di_da.c.  That is, the module would
> interpret the HP-IB secondaries as received from the 12821A interface
> as CS/80 commands, pick up the associated parameter data bytes, and
> then call the appropriate HP disc library routines (e.g., seek, read,
> write, etc.) to execute the commands.  The ICD module does this for
> the Amigo command set; I would expect the CS/80 version to contain
> about 70% of the same code, with the rest handling the differences
> between the Amigo and CS/80 command sets.

I read through the listings today - and I like the way you
modularized and segregated the 12821A interface code and the Amigo
command set. I can see how implementing the CS/80 version will be
relatively easy and and how you'll be able to re-use 70% of the same
code.

Kudos for excellent structure and implementation 8)

> > Thanks for the fast response!
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
>                                       -- Dave

Cheers,
Lyle

-- 
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com

"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com  Wed Jun 26 11:01:04 2013
From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 11:01:04 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Physical serial ports and SIMH
Message-ID: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!
Right now I am tooling up to try out an idea or two concerning the
PDP-11 emulation. This is to be run on a Raspberry Pi running the
latest release of their Raspberry specific Debian release. (Also fully
updated and upgraded.)

The device has the two USB connections ostensibly for a keyboard and
mouse, but one gentleman I know managed to make use of the serial port
function on one of them, and attached a USB to serial adapter to one
of the connections. So obviously I can connect two adapters to the two
ports there.

But what about the serial port embedded on the GPIO connectors? Can I
make use of that one?

I know normally that SIMH emulates a chosen computer and only fairly
recently with some of them do communicate with the outside world via
Ethernet, but for what I'm planning and working on, it seems to be a
good fit. Should it work I might be able to upscale the working
programs to Mr Wilson's product running on an X86 board instead, or
even an actual PDP-11 model.....
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com  Wed Jun 26 12:23:16 2013
From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 12:23:16 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Physical serial ports and SIMH
In-Reply-To: <33AE83B4-35B9-4552-93CE-A09D4F532429@jordi.guillaumes.name>
References: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <33AE83B4-35B9-4552-93CE-A09D4F532429@jordi.guillaumes.name>
Message-ID: <CAC5iaNFmCM6+AFLvDjRne-54Xv5dsoBbeYiyEMGqCajCwe94JA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
<jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
>
> El 26/06/2013, a les 17:01, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> va escriure:
>
>> But what about the serial port embedded on the GPIO connectors? Can I
>> make use of that one?
>
> The development version of simh can use the physical serial ports of the host computer and attach them to emulated serial lines (DZ11 or VH devices).
>
>
> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
> jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
> HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
>
>
>
>

Hello!
That's what I thought.

Interesting,the Gmail mailer wants to know did I mean the address for
the list concerning the hobbyist network versus the one for discussing
SIMH partly because of the responder......

-- 
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

From brian at quarterbyte.com  Wed Jun 26 13:17:47 2013
From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 10:17:47 -0700
Subject: [Simh] Physical serial ports and SIMH
In-Reply-To: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51CB223B.462.18B6E175@brian.quarterbyte.com>

Hi Gregg,

This is an interest of mine too, for some personal and some work 
projects.

The RPi usees 3.3V logic, so you have to use a level-shifting chip to 
use the hardware UARTs with RS-232 or RS-4xx. I've had an RS-232/RPi 
interface sitting on the dining room table half put-together for the 
last 2 months, so I can't tell you yet how well it works.

Re: the USB to RS-232 interface options (most of which, AFAIK, use the 
FTDI chip built into a cable), I have read online accounts of 
instability in the Raspbian drivers -- the interfaces work for a few 
minutes or hours, and then stop working. If true, that makes them 
functionally worthless.

I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has had this experience, or 
has found a USB/RS-232 cable/driver combo that has proven to be stable 
on the RPi.

Brian


On 26 Jun 2013 at 11:01, Gregg Levine wrote:

Hello!
Right now I am tooling up to try out an idea or two concerning the
PDP-11 emulation. This is to be run on a Raspberry Pi running the
latest release of their Raspberry specific Debian release. (Also fully
updated and upgraded.)

The device has the two USB connections ostensibly for a keyboard and
mouse, but one gentleman I know managed to make use of the serial port
function on one of them, and attached a USB to serial adapter to one
of the connections. So obviously I can connect two adapters to the two
ports there.

But what about the serial port embedded on the GPIO connectors? Can I
make use of that one?

I know normally that SIMH emulates a chosen computer and only fairly
recently with some of them do communicate with the outside world via
Ethernet, but for what I'm planning and working on, it seems to be a
good fit. Should it work I might be able to upscale the working
programs to Mr Wilson's product running on an X86 board instead, or
even an actual PDP-11 model.....
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
Simh at trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
_| _| _|  Brian Knittel
_| _| _|  Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
_| _| _|  Tel: 1-510-559-7930
_| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com


From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com  Wed Jun 26 15:41:35 2013
From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 15:41:35 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Physical serial ports and SIMH
In-Reply-To: <51CB223B.462.18B6E175@brian.quarterbyte.com>
References: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <51CB223B.462.18B6E175@brian.quarterbyte.com>
Message-ID: <CAC5iaNGNAoKjWkLCqo1U1eHhtZ_TGPn_oBsa33g=X-GNQBh2Pw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Brian Knittel <brian at quarterbyte.com> wrote:
> Hi Gregg,
>
> This is an interest of mine too, for some personal and some work
> projects.
>
> The RPi usees 3.3V logic, so you have to use a level-shifting chip to
> use the hardware UARTs with RS-232 or RS-4xx. I've had an RS-232/RPi
> interface sitting on the dining room table half put-together for the
> last 2 months, so I can't tell you yet how well it works.
>
> Re: the USB to RS-232 interface options (most of which, AFAIK, use the
> FTDI chip built into a cable), I have read online accounts of
> instability in the Raspbian drivers -- the interfaces work for a few
> minutes or hours, and then stop working. If true, that makes them
> functionally worthless.
>
> I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has had this experience, or
> has found a USB/RS-232 cable/driver combo that has proven to be stable
> on the RPi.
>
> Brian
>
>
> On 26 Jun 2013 at 11:01, Gregg Levine wrote:
>
> Hello!
> Right now I am tooling up to try out an idea or two concerning the
> PDP-11 emulation. This is to be run on a Raspberry Pi running the
> latest release of their Raspberry specific Debian release. (Also fully
> updated and upgraded.)
>
> The device has the two USB connections ostensibly for a keyboard and
> mouse, but one gentleman I know managed to make use of the serial port
> function on one of them, and attached a USB to serial adapter to one
> of the connections. So obviously I can connect two adapters to the two
> ports there.
>
> But what about the serial port embedded on the GPIO connectors? Can I
> make use of that one?
>
> I know normally that SIMH emulates a chosen computer and only fairly
> recently with some of them do communicate with the outside world via
> Ethernet, but for what I'm planning and working on, it seems to be a
> good fit. Should it work I might be able to upscale the working
> programs to Mr Wilson's product running on an X86 board instead, or
> even an actual PDP-11 model.....
> -----
> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> _| _| _|  Brian Knittel
> _| _| _|  Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
> _| _| _|  Tel: 1-510-559-7930
> _| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com

Hello!
Interesting point. As it happens FTDI makes a module that adds things
to the based Raspberry Pi, here:
http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Modules/RPi.htm they basically there
explain everything imaginable for the module itself. I suspect based
on what you've stated there's still some unstability in the drivers
that the modules are creating, and, ah, its supposed to be fixed using
the library they describe on an app note, and of course its available
for all forms of Linux.

-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

From jg at jordi.guillaumes.name  Wed Jun 26 17:28:14 2013
From: jg at jordi.guillaumes.name (Jordi Guillaumes i Pons)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 23:28:14 +0200
Subject: [Simh] Physical serial ports and SIMH
In-Reply-To: <CAC5iaNGNAoKjWkLCqo1U1eHhtZ_TGPn_oBsa33g=X-GNQBh2Pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <51CB223B.462.18B6E175@brian.quarterbyte.com>
 <CAC5iaNGNAoKjWkLCqo1U1eHhtZ_TGPn_oBsa33g=X-GNQBh2Pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8C240EFB-3A81-4253-A45D-E57091882A2C@jordi.guillaumes.name>

Perhaps you will want to consider one alternative to the Raspberry Pi: 

http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black

I have got one. It is noticeabily faster than the pi (it clocks at 1GHz and uses a faster memory) and it does not need a SD card to boot (it has 2GB of on-board flash). I run debian wheezy in mine, and of course simh compiles without any problem once you have installed the dependencies. It comes with 5 UARTs and you can get a "cape" which gets you a standard RS232 port thru a D9 connector:

http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeagleBone_RS232

(I am not sure if you can stack several capes to use the other UARTs).




El 26/06/2013, a les 21:41, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> va escriure:

> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Brian Knittel <brian at quarterbyte.com> wrote:
>> Hi Gregg,
>> 
>> This is an interest of mine too, for some personal and some work
>> projects.
>> 
>> The RPi usees 3.3V logic, so you have to use a level-shifting chip to
>> use the hardware UARTs with RS-232 or RS-4xx. I've had an RS-232/RPi
>> interface sitting on the dining room table half put-together for the
>> last 2 months, so I can't tell you yet how well it works.
>> 
>> Re: the USB to RS-232 interface options (most of which, AFAIK, use the
>> FTDI chip built into a cable), I have read online accounts of
>> instability in the Raspbian drivers -- the interfaces work for a few
>> minutes or hours, and then stop working. If true, that makes them
>> functionally worthless.
>> 
>> I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has had this experience, or
>> has found a USB/RS-232 cable/driver combo that has proven to be stable
>> on the RPi.
>> 
>> Brian
>> 
>> 
>> On 26 Jun 2013 at 11:01, Gregg Levine wrote:
>> 
>> Hello!
>> Right now I am tooling up to try out an idea or two concerning the
>> PDP-11 emulation. This is to be run on a Raspberry Pi running the
>> latest release of their Raspberry specific Debian release. (Also fully
>> updated and upgraded.)
>> 
>> The device has the two USB connections ostensibly for a keyboard and
>> mouse, but one gentleman I know managed to make use of the serial port
>> function on one of them, and attached a USB to serial adapter to one
>> of the connections. So obviously I can connect two adapters to the two
>> ports there.
>> 
>> But what about the serial port embedded on the GPIO connectors? Can I
>> make use of that one?
>> 
>> I know normally that SIMH emulates a chosen computer and only fairly
>> recently with some of them do communicate with the outside world via
>> Ethernet, but for what I'm planning and working on, it seems to be a
>> good fit. Should it work I might be able to upscale the working
>> programs to Mr Wilson's product running on an X86 board instead, or
>> even an actual PDP-11 model.....
>> -----
>> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
>> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>> _| _| _|  Brian Knittel
>> _| _| _|  Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
>> _| _| _|  Tel: 1-510-559-7930
>> _| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com
> 
> Hello!
> Interesting point. As it happens FTDI makes a module that adds things
> to the based Raspberry Pi, here:
> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Modules/RPi.htm they basically there
> explain everything imaginable for the module itself. I suspect based
> on what you've stated there's still some unstability in the drivers
> that the modules are creating, and, ah, its supposed to be fixed using
> the library they describe on an app note, and of course its available
> for all forms of Linux.
> 
> -----
> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES





From j_hoppe at t-online.de  Thu Jun 27 11:24:47 2013
From: j_hoppe at t-online.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Hoppe?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 17:24:47 +0200
Subject: [Simh] Physical serial ports and SIMH
In-Reply-To: <8C240EFB-3A81-4253-A45D-E57091882A2C@jordi.guillaumes.name>
References: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <51CB223B.462.18B6E175@brian.quarterbyte.com>
 <CAC5iaNGNAoKjWkLCqo1U1eHhtZ_TGPn_oBsa33g=X-GNQBh2Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <8C240EFB-3A81-4253-A45D-E57091882A2C@jordi.guillaumes.name>
Message-ID: <51CC593F.3020107@t-online.de>

Hi,

just to ring the bell:
For the "DECbox", we made an 4x RS232 cape for the BeagleBone.
(www.blinkenbone.com/projects/decbox/160-decbox-about-the-beaglebone)
A friend made an online shop for it: see shop.hachti.de

regards
Joerg

Am 26.06.2013 23:28, schrieb Jordi Guillaumes i Pons:
> Perhaps you will want to consider one alternative to the Raspberry Pi:
>
> http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black
>
> I have got one. It is noticeabily faster than the pi (it clocks at 1GHz and uses a faster memory) and it does not need a SD card to boot (it has 2GB of on-board flash). I run debian wheezy in mine, and of course simh compiles without any problem once you have installed the dependencies. It comes with 5 UARTs and you can get a "cape" which gets you a standard RS232 port thru a D9 connector:
>
> http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeagleBone_RS232
>
> (I am not sure if you can stack several capes to use the other UARTs).
>
>
>
>
> El 26/06/2013, a les 21:41, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> va escriure:
>
>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Brian Knittel <brian at quarterbyte.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Gregg,
>>>
>>> This is an interest of mine too, for some personal and some work
>>> projects.
>>>
>>> The RPi usees 3.3V logic, so you have to use a level-shifting chip to
>>> use the hardware UARTs with RS-232 or RS-4xx. I've had an RS-232/RPi
>>> interface sitting on the dining room table half put-together for the
>>> last 2 months, so I can't tell you yet how well it works.
>>>
>>> Re: the USB to RS-232 interface options (most of which, AFAIK, use the
>>> FTDI chip built into a cable), I have read online accounts of
>>> instability in the Raspbian drivers -- the interfaces work for a few
>>> minutes or hours, and then stop working. If true, that makes them
>>> functionally worthless.
>>>
>>> I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has had this experience, or
>>> has found a USB/RS-232 cable/driver combo that has proven to be stable
>>> on the RPi.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>> On 26 Jun 2013 at 11:01, Gregg Levine wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello!
>>> Right now I am tooling up to try out an idea or two concerning the
>>> PDP-11 emulation. This is to be run on a Raspberry Pi running the
>>> latest release of their Raspberry specific Debian release. (Also fully
>>> updated and upgraded.)
>>>
>>> The device has the two USB connections ostensibly for a keyboard and
>>> mouse, but one gentleman I know managed to make use of the serial port
>>> function on one of them, and attached a USB to serial adapter to one
>>> of the connections. So obviously I can connect two adapters to the two
>>> ports there.
>>>
>>> But what about the serial port embedded on the GPIO connectors? Can I
>>> make use of that one?
>>>
>>> I know normally that SIMH emulates a chosen computer and only fairly
>>> recently with some of them do communicate with the outside world via
>>> Ethernet, but for what I'm planning and working on, it seems to be a
>>> good fit. Should it work I might be able to upscale the working
>>> programs to Mr Wilson's product running on an X86 board instead, or
>>> even an actual PDP-11 model.....
>>> -----
>>> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
>>> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>>> _| _| _|  Brian Knittel
>>> _| _| _|  Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
>>> _| _| _|  Tel: 1-510-559-7930
>>> _| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com
>>
>> Hello!
>> Interesting point. As it happens FTDI makes a module that adds things
>> to the based Raspberry Pi, here:
>> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Modules/RPi.htm they basically there
>> explain everything imaginable for the module itself. I suspect based
>> on what you've stated there's still some unstability in the drivers
>> that the modules are creating, and, ah, its supposed to be fixed using
>> the library they describe on an app note, and of course its available
>> for all forms of Linux.
>>
>> -----
>> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
>> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
>> _______________________________________________
>> Simh mailing list
>> Simh at trailing-edge.com
>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
> jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
> HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
>

From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 27 11:40:06 2013
From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 11:40:06 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Physical serial ports and SIMH
In-Reply-To: <51CC593F.3020107@t-online.de>
References: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <51CB223B.462.18B6E175@brian.quarterbyte.com>
 <CAC5iaNGNAoKjWkLCqo1U1eHhtZ_TGPn_oBsa33g=X-GNQBh2Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <8C240EFB-3A81-4253-A45D-E57091882A2C@jordi.guillaumes.name>
 <51CC593F.3020107@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <CAC5iaNFfncpCSWYwZzmf4h1Dqjp62WpnAJyvu1EaEpr_WNEcqg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:24 AM, J?rg Hoppe <j_hoppe at t-online.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> just to ring the bell:
> For the "DECbox", we made an 4x RS232 cape for the BeagleBone.
> (www.blinkenbone.com/projects/decbox/160-decbox-about-the-beaglebone)
> A friend made an online shop for it: see shop.hachti.de
>
> regards
> Joerg
>
> Am 26.06.2013 23:28, schrieb Jordi Guillaumes i Pons:
>
>> Perhaps you will want to consider one alternative to the Raspberry Pi:
>>
>> http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black
>>
>> I have got one. It is noticeabily faster than the pi (it clocks at 1GHz
>> and uses a faster memory) and it does not need a SD card to boot (it has 2GB
>> of on-board flash). I run debian wheezy in mine, and of course simh compiles
>> without any problem once you have installed the dependencies. It comes with
>> 5 UARTs and you can get a "cape" which gets you a standard RS232 port thru a
>> D9 connector:
>>
>> http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeagleBone_RS232
>>
>> (I am not sure if you can stack several capes to use the other UARTs).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El 26/06/2013, a les 21:41, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> va
>> escriure:
>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Brian Knittel <brian at quarterbyte.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Gregg,
>>>>
>>>> This is an interest of mine too, for some personal and some work
>>>> projects.
>>>>
>>>> The RPi usees 3.3V logic, so you have to use a level-shifting chip to
>>>> use the hardware UARTs with RS-232 or RS-4xx. I've had an RS-232/RPi
>>>> interface sitting on the dining room table half put-together for the
>>>> last 2 months, so I can't tell you yet how well it works.
>>>>
>>>> Re: the USB to RS-232 interface options (most of which, AFAIK, use the
>>>> FTDI chip built into a cable), I have read online accounts of
>>>> instability in the Raspbian drivers -- the interfaces work for a few
>>>> minutes or hours, and then stop working. If true, that makes them
>>>> functionally worthless.
>>>>
>>>> I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has had this experience, or
>>>> has found a USB/RS-232 cable/driver combo that has proven to be stable
>>>> on the RPi.
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 26 Jun 2013 at 11:01, Gregg Levine wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello!
>>>> Right now I am tooling up to try out an idea or two concerning the
>>>> PDP-11 emulation. This is to be run on a Raspberry Pi running the
>>>> latest release of their Raspberry specific Debian release. (Also fully
>>>> updated and upgraded.)
>>>>
>>>> The device has the two USB connections ostensibly for a keyboard and
>>>> mouse, but one gentleman I know managed to make use of the serial port
>>>> function on one of them, and attached a USB to serial adapter to one
>>>> of the connections. So obviously I can connect two adapters to the two
>>>> ports there.
>>>>
>>>> But what about the serial port embedded on the GPIO connectors? Can I
>>>> make use of that one?
>>>>
>>>> I know normally that SIMH emulates a chosen computer and only fairly
>>>> recently with some of them do communicate with the outside world via
>>>> Ethernet, but for what I'm planning and working on, it seems to be a
>>>> good fit. Should it work I might be able to upscale the working
>>>> programs to Mr Wilson's product running on an X86 board instead, or
>>>> even an actual PDP-11 model.....
>>>> -----
>>>> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
>>>> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
>>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>>>> _| _| _|  Brian Knittel
>>>> _| _| _|  Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
>>>> _| _| _|  Tel: 1-510-559-7930
>>>> _| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello!
>>> Interesting point. As it happens FTDI makes a module that adds things
>>> to the based Raspberry Pi, here:
>>> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Modules/RPi.htm they basically there
>>> explain everything imaginable for the module itself. I suspect based
>>> on what you've stated there's still some unstability in the drivers
>>> that the modules are creating, and, ah, its supposed to be fixed using
>>> the library they describe on an app note, and of course its available
>>> for all forms of Linux.
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
>>> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Simh mailing list
>>> Simh at trailing-edge.com
>>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>>
>>
>> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
>> jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
>> HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Hello!
Of course. Back when your ideas first surfaced, I had thought of
getting a "Snoopy" board, (Snoopy is the dog from Peanuts and is a
Beagle) but put that idea aside as I hadn't even figured out what I
wanted to do with the whole business. For right now I'm not even
close. But the logic involved in a partial breakdown of the ideas,
which are focusing on output are being tested now.

Its the PDP-11 programming that is threatening to dislodge me, I
suspect it might be partially beyond me.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

From litt at ieee.org  Fri Jun 28 07:29:08 2013
From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 07:29:08 -0400
Subject: [Simh] CP10 Image?
Message-ID: <51CD7384.7030108@ieee.org>

Does anyone have a good picture (or an accurate written description) of 
the CP10 card punch indicators and switches?

The 1971 PDP-10 handbook has a picture and description, but the image is 
not good enough to identify the
legends on each switch/indicator.  The description is somewhat 
ambiguous, and leaves a certain amount to
the imagination.  (Rather, it assumes you can walk up to and touch one.)

Does anyone remember who the OEM(s) was/were?  (There were three models: 
CP10-A 200 CPM,  CP10-D 100 CPM, and a version of the 200 CPM with 
double the hopper capacity and dual output stackers.)

Thanks.

-- 
This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.
	


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From michael.mondy at coffeebird.net  Fri Jun 28 13:46:16 2013
From: michael.mondy at coffeebird.net (Michael Mondy)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 12:46:16 -0500
Subject: [Simh] Cray X-MP simulator and OS image
Message-ID: <20130628174616.GA30637@coffeebird.net>

In case anyone missed this elsewhere.

An interesting story of a guy who wrote a simulator for the Cray X-MP.  (I don't think he used SIMH though).  It includes efforts that he and others performed to read a disk platter without a working drive and then perform signal analysis of the results.

Links:

http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/06/26/1536233/cray-x-mp-simulator-resurrects-piece-of-com
puter-history

http://www.chrisfenton.com/cray-1-digital-archeology/

http://modularcircuits.tantosonline.com/blog/articles/the-cray-files/


-- Mike

From aek at bitsavers.org  Fri Jun 28 14:16:05 2013
From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 11:16:05 -0700
Subject: [Simh] Cray X-MP simulator and OS image
In-Reply-To: <20130628174616.GA30637@coffeebird.net>
References: <20130628174616.GA30637@coffeebird.net>
Message-ID: <51CDD2E5.8090104@bitsavers.org>

On 6/28/13 10:46 AM, Michael Mondy wrote:

> It includes efforts that he and others performed to read a disk platter without a working drive

no, he borrowed a CDC 9762 drive and used the read amps in it
what wasn't known was the track format.






From michael.mondy at coffeebird.net  Fri Jun 28 16:04:50 2013
From: michael.mondy at coffeebird.net (Michael Mondy)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 15:04:50 -0500
Subject: [Simh] Cray X-MP simulator and OS image
In-Reply-To: <51CDD2E5.8090104@bitsavers.org>
References: <20130628174616.GA30637@coffeebird.net>
 <51CDD2E5.8090104@bitsavers.org>
Message-ID: <20130628200450.GA31788@coffeebird.net>

On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 11:16:05AM -0700, Al Kossow wrote:
> On 6/28/13 10:46 AM, Michael Mondy wrote:
> 
> >It includes efforts that he and others performed to read a disk platter without a working drive
> 
> no, he borrowed a CDC 9762 drive and used the read amps in it
> what wasn't known was the track format.

Agreed.

I didn't mean to imply he didn't use a drive; just that unusual efforts were used.  The drive wasn't really working in the way it was designed to be used.  He used the head, but he didn't use the drive's positioning mechanisms.  From his web page:

-- Quote
I built a robot that would manually move the head forward 1/5200th of an inch at a time (there are 400 data tracks per inch, so this gives me a whopping 13 steps per data track!), while a high-speed analog-to-digital converter would take the analog signal straight from the drive's read amplifier and buffer it into an FPGA at a blistering 80 million samples-per-second (like I said earlier, the theme here was overkill... the data was only changing at ~10 MHz or so). 
[snipped]
Remarkably enough, this scheme actually worked pretty well. It took about three or four hours, but I was able to image the entire disk pack. Of course, that left me with a 35 gigabyte magnetic image of the disk.
-- End quote

I imagine similar efforts have been done by others, but this is an interesting writeup.

-- Mike


From Villy.Madsen at Shaw.ca  Sat Jun 29 20:51:51 2013
From: Villy.Madsen at Shaw.ca (Villy Madsen)
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 18:51:51 -0600
Subject: [Simh] Latest binary of VAX
Message-ID: <51CF8127.6030405@Shaw.ca>

would someone please send me a compiler/linked copy of the latest 
version (3.9 ??) of the vax emulator with Ethernet support.

Please and thank you...

During my migration to w7 I lost the executable and am having no end of 
trouble trying to get a compiler up and running.

Please and thankyou

Villy


From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 29 21:03:00 2013
From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine)
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 21:03:00 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Latest binary of VAX
In-Reply-To: <51CF8127.6030405@Shaw.ca>
References: <51CF8127.6030405@Shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <CAC5iaNEbWuOvaT4R0vWM-AV-UFrcxC7SO25xaYrcDY8j_1hu+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 8:51 PM, Villy Madsen <Villy.Madsen at shaw.ca> wrote:
> would someone please send me a compiler/linked copy of the latest version
> (3.9 ??) of the vax emulator with Ethernet support.
>
> Please and thank you...
>
> During my migration to w7 I lost the executable and am having no end of
> trouble trying to get a compiler up and running.
>
> Please and thankyou
>
> Villy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Hello!
Aren't they available on the SIMH site?

Oh and within the (sadly) last printed copy of EDN, the back page
contains one you submitted concerning your problems with the local
telco.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

From ahling at eadc.se  Sun Jun 30 05:55:55 2013
From: ahling at eadc.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_=C5hling?=)
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 11:55:55 +0200
Subject: [Simh] Latest binary of VAX
In-Reply-To: <51CF8127.6030405@Shaw.ca>
References: <51CF8127.6030405@Shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <51D000AB.8060306@eadc.se>

Rebuilding wasn't to obvious...

I installed mingw "plain vanilla" + C++  (don't know if that i needed, 
but it doesn't hurt...)

I installed winpcap...

I compiled using the .bat-file with ethernet support

All went fine until "pdp11"...  which gave:
     sim_ether.c:801:18: fatal error: pcap.h: No such file or direcoty
     Compilation terminated
     Mingw32-make: *** [BIN/pdp11.exe] Error 1

Some fiddling, including reading 0readme... at both the package root and 
in the windows-build directory, gave:

The .bat file requires a certain directory structure:

...\SIMH\simhv39-0\...

below this there are common files and one directory for each cpu. Fine.
below this there is also one directory "windows-build". THIS ONE SHALL 
BE MOVED ONE LEVEL UP!
Key problem: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This one shall also be populated with the directed packages (pthreads, 
winpcap developers package)

after that: you should have:

...\SIMH\simhv39-0/...
...\SIMH\windows-build\pthreads
...\SIMH\windows-build\Winpcap
...\SIMH\windows-build\Winpcap\WpdPack\...

This WpdPack is just as unpacked from the Winpcap developers package.

This made "It" for me!

Happy simulating!

G?ran


On 2013-06-30 02:51, Villy Madsen wrote:
> would someone please send me a compiler/linked copy of the latest 
> version (3.9 ??) of the vax emulator with Ethernet support.
>
> Please and thank you...
>
> During my migration to w7 I lost the executable and am having no end 
> of trouble trying to get a compiler up and running.
>
> Please and thankyou
>
> Villy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh


From ahling at eadc.se  Sun Jun 30 07:09:35 2013
From: ahling at eadc.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_=C5hling?=)
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 13:09:35 +0200
Subject: [Simh] ATTACH DLI <port>
In-Reply-To: <CAC5iaNEbWuOvaT4R0vWM-AV-UFrcxC7SO25xaYrcDY8j_1hu+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51CF8127.6030405@Shaw.ca>
 <CAC5iaNEbWuOvaT4R0vWM-AV-UFrcxC7SO25xaYrcDY8j_1hu+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51D011EF.2020604@eadc.se>

What's the obvious snag with doccumentation when it says

(for DL-lines like the 7 built-in on an PDP 11/93 cpu - DLV22 also called)

Doccumentation says: use:
ATTACH DLI <port>

Reality (3.9 version...) requires   ATTACH DLI0 3001     (for example)
note: the Zero after DLI unit specification


Doccumentation speaks of DLI modes like UC/7P/7B/8B

Reality (3.9 version...) requires SET DLO 8B

note: DL-Out, when doccumentation has this under the Input section, and  
a table how it reflects both input and output...

All best,

G?ran

From toby at telegraphics.com.au  Sun Jun 30 12:09:14 2013
From: toby at telegraphics.com.au (Toby Thain)
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 12:09:14 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Latest binary of VAX
In-Reply-To: <51D000AB.8060306@eadc.se>
References: <51CF8127.6030405@Shaw.ca> <51D000AB.8060306@eadc.se>
Message-ID: <51D0582A.2080404@telegraphics.com.au>

On 30/06/13 5:55 AM, G?ran ?hling wrote:
> Rebuilding wasn't to obvious...
>

I did this too. Here is a howto if anyone wants one (though the bundled 
instructions are good enough).

   https://gist.github.com/3885865

I also have Windows binaries of 3.9 with networking, if needed.

--Toby


From j_hoppe at t-online.de  Mon Jun 10 01:56:12 2013
From: j_hoppe at t-online.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Hoppe?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 05:56:12 -0000
Subject: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight
 panels
In-Reply-To: <51B55D78.40808@t-online.de>
References: <51B55D78.40808@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <51B56A71.7070600@t-online.de>

Hi Mark,

Sorry for answering late.

I'll look into the SimH beta this week and check out the remote console.

I'm just now in progress of making a PDP-10 KI10 console simulation for
BlinkenBone/SimH, see attachements.
- At the moment there's still much photoshopping.
- Next is the Java application driving the panel pictures.
- Last I'll code a REALCONS interface for PDP-10. This would be the 
right time to integrate REALCONS into the beta.

best regards,
Joerg

Btw:  mark at infocomm was unreachable, so I mailed into the Simh list.


Am 01.06.2013 20:39, schrieb Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm:
> On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 at 5:36 AM, Mark Pizzolato wrote:
>> On Monday, April 15, 2013 at 10:50 PM, J?rg Hoppe wrote:
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> http://retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/180-blinkenbone-as-
>> approach-
>>> for-simh-device-visualisation
>>> is updated and quite stable now.
>>> If you only know the early version, you may want to look at it again.
>>>
>>> kind regards,
>>> Joerg
>>
>> Hi Joerg,
>>
>> This is definitely really good stuff and well thought out, as you say 'possibly
>> over engineered', but I like that.
>>
>> I'm not ready to merge this functionality into the codebase at this time, but I
>> want to come back to it in a few months.
>>
>> I wanted to see what you had done so I could keep it in mind as implement a
>> very simple 'extra' command interface to the current codebase to support
>> the basic user requests which have come along.
>>
>> I'll get back to you when I'm ready to move.  Feel free to probe me from time
>> to time.
>
> Hi Joerg,
>
> You may want to take a look at the current simh codebase and think about the idea of hooking into the remote console capability to implement the functionality you've previously implemented.  The remote console capabilities are a permanent part of the codebase and work on all supported simh host platforms without any external dependencies or complexities.
>
> A shim layer could be implemented to interface your REALCONS semantics to a Remote Console session.
>
> Please let me know what you think.
>
> Thanks.
>
> - Mark
>
>
>



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From johnforecast at comcast.net  Sat Jun  1 11:44:16 2013
From: johnforecast at comcast.net (John Forecast)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 11:44:16 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 113, Issue 22
In-Reply-To: <mailman.284.1369841964.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
References: <mailman.284.1369841964.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <3690D186-0239-4FA6-B3E9-BC046550B428@comcast.net>


On May 29, 2013, at 11:39 AM, simh-request at trailing-edge.com wrote:

> 5) Was this KMC/DUP combination ever a supported device on PDP11 or VAX systems?

	I worked on some of the early (Phase 2 & 3) DECnet-RSX products. I can confirm that
	the KMC/DUP was supported on both DECnet-11M and -11M+, along with KMC/DZ. The		drivers are in the distribution kits available on bitsavers (kdp and kdz). I can't recall if they
	were ever supported by DECnet-VMS.

  John.

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From bob at jfcl.com  Sat Jun  1 20:53:29 2013
From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 17:53:29 -0700
Subject: [Simh] DECnet-11/M phase II and III (was KMC/DUP ....)
In-Reply-To: <3690D186-0239-4FA6-B3E9-BC046550B428@comcast.net>
References: <mailman.284.1369841964.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <3690D186-0239-4FA6-B3E9-BC046550B428@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001d01ce5f2b$9930aea0$cb920be0$@com>

> John Forecast <johnforecast at comcast.net> wrote:

>I worked on some of the early (Phase 2 & 3) DECnet-RSX products. 

John -

  You wouldn't happen to have any of those old DECnet-11M tapes lying
around, would you?  I've looked for archived distributions of DECnet-11/M
prior to Phase IV many times and have never found a complete one.

Thanks,
Bob Armstrong





From aek at bitsavers.org  Mon Jun  3 17:43:48 2013
From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow)
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:43:48 -0700
Subject: [Simh] KDP Documentation
In-Reply-To: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157924@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
References: <51A4D32B.60800@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157924@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
Message-ID: <51AD0E14.9040109@bitsavers.org>

On 5/29/13 8:39 AM, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:
> Hi Tim,
>
> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Timothe Litt wrote:
>> I knew I had some documentation for the KMC/DUP combination, though I
>> still haven't found the COMIOP/DUP manual (AA-5670A-TC) in my
>> collection, or on-line.


AA-5670A-TC has been uploaded to
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/AA-5670A-TC_COMM_IOP-DUP_Programming_Manual_Jan78.pdf




From bob at jfcl.com  Fri Jun  7 13:36:20 2013
From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 10:36:20 -0700
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
Message-ID: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com>

  I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a
KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months
ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy of
the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?

 

Thanks,

Bob Armstrong

 

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From litt at ieee.org  Fri Jun  7 14:29:07 2013
From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt)
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 14:29:07 -0400
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com>
References: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com>
Message-ID: <51B22673.2090206@ieee.org>

> I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a 
> KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of 
> months ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me 
> to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?
Here's what I know:

Rob Jarrett ported a KDP simulation to the latest emulator.  It didn't 
quite work.  There's a personal repo on github, but it's not worth a 
pointer.

I have 2 -10s and 2 -20s  configured for DECnet (and ANF-10) running on 
my desktop. (!)  No 11-based ANF nodes yet.

I made some progress - I had ANF-10 up for an hour or so; DECnet-10 not 
at all; DECnet-20 sometimes.  The KDP emulation is missing some commands 
that the OSs count on.  My code isn't in the repo, yet.

Mark Pizzolato has a DUP emulation that he says is mostly working on 11s 
and VMS.  Rather than keep two DUP emulations, the plan was to split the 
KDP into the KMC + DUP, rather like the real hardware.

I've been off line for about the past 10 daze - e-mail appears and 
disappears on my servers - the responsible party calls it an 'upgrade', 
so I'm not sure what the current state pf the KDP/DMR work is.

I have tracked down the COMIOP-DUP microcode USER's documentation with 
the help of Al Kossow and Cynde Moya, and it's on bitsavers along with 
the DMR tech manuals.  (Both even agree with my memory.)

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/AA-5670A-TC_COMM_IOP-DUP_Programming_Manual_Jan78.pdf 
and 
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-TM-002_Jan81.pdf; 
also 
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-UG-002_DMR11_Synchronous_Controller_Users_Guide_Dec80.pdf

Once I catch up on e-mail, I'll see what I can do to help, depending on 
where Mark and Rob are.  (They may have given up on me  due to my on/off 
(mostly off) mail service.  Hopefully that's fixed.)

I have 2,475 e-mail messages to sort thru before I'm up-to-date...but 
should have some time this weekend.  I hope.

This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.

On 07-Jun-13 13:36, Bob Armstrong wrote:
>
>   I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a 
> KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of 
> months ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me 
> to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob Armstrong
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

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From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com  Fri Jun  7 14:30:50 2013
From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Robert Jarratt)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 19:30:50 +0100
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com>
References: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com>
Message-ID: <021501ce63ad$22eafa80$68c0ef80$@ntlworld.com>

It is still being worked on, there isn't anything ready for use yet.

 

Regards

 

Rob

 

From: simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com]
On Behalf Of Bob Armstrong
Sent: 07 June 2013 18:36
To: simh at trailing-edge.com
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?

 

  I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a
KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months
ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy of
the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?

 

Thanks,

Bob Armstrong

 

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From Mark at infocomm.com  Fri Jun  7 15:45:49 2013
From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 12:45:49 -0700
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <51B22673.2090206@ieee.org>
References: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com> <51B22673.2090206@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AC4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>

I believe that the DUP11 emulation is working.  It has been tested minimally on RSX11M+ talking to RSX11M+.  Never having been a user of these systems I don't have enough experience to do rigorous testing.  Anyone willing to test more rigorously is welcome.

In theory, the DUP11 could work for VAX Unibus systems, however I don't think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.  Maybe for DECnet Phase V, but I can't seem to find support prior to that.  Even in the DECnet Phase V case, the DUP11 smiulation ONLY supports DDCMP on the wire and I don't know if that was what DECnet Phase V spoke on the wire...  I welcome anyone with the experience to test.  Contact me offline for specific help.

The current code at github.com/simh/simh (downloadable as https://github.com/simh/simh/archive/master.zip) will build PDP11 and all the Unibus VAX simulators with DUP11 support.  If DDCMP on DUP11's was never a supported protocol for VMS, we'll probably remove the DUP from the VAX simulators before things settle down.

As Rob and Tim have said, the KDP is still a work in progress.  The ultimate goal will be to have the KDP talk to other KDP's and bare DUP11's and the DMC11 all speaking DDCMP on the wire.

The original KDP code spoke partial DDCMP on the wire (without DDCMP's CRC's) and as Tim mentions below, had numerous issues with some required OS interactions as well as correct observance of DDCMP's packet boundaries in the data stream.

Rob's DMC11 implementation didn't speak DDCMP on the wire at all.

So work is ongoing to get each of these devices to talk a common language and to meet OS expectations..


-          Mark

From: simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Timothe Litt
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 11:29 AM
To: simh at trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?

I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?
Here's what I know:

Rob Jarrett ported a KDP simulation to the latest emulator.  It didn't quite work.  There's a personal repo on github, but it's not worth a pointer.

I have 2 -10s and 2 -20s  configured for DECnet (and ANF-10) running on my desktop. (!)  No 11-based ANF nodes yet.

I made some progress - I had ANF-10 up for an hour or so; DECnet-10 not at all; DECnet-20 sometimes.  The KDP emulation is missing some commands that the OSs count on.  My code isn't in the repo, yet.

Mark Pizzolato has a DUP emulation that he says is mostly working on 11s and VMS.  Rather than keep two DUP emulations, the plan was to split the KDP into the KMC + DUP, rather like the real hardware.

I've been off line for about the past 10 daze - e-mail appears and disappears on my servers - the responsible party calls it an 'upgrade', so I'm not sure what the current state pf the KDP/DMR work is.

I have tracked down the COMIOP-DUP microcode USER's documentation with the help of Al Kossow and Cynde Moya, and it's on bitsavers along with the DMR tech manuals.  (Both even agree with my memory.)

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/AA-5670A-TC_COMM_IOP-DUP_Programming_Manual_Jan78.pdf and http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-TM-002_Jan81.pdf; also  http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-UG-002_DMR11_Synchronous_Controller_Users_Guide_Dec80.pdf

Once I catch up on e-mail, I'll see what I can do to help, depending on where Mark and Rob are.  (They may have given up on me  due to my on/off (mostly off) mail service.  Hopefully that's fixed.)

I have 2,475 e-mail messages to sort thru before I'm up-to-date...but should have some time this weekend.  I hope.



This communication may not represent my employer's views,

if any, on the matters discussed.
On 07-Jun-13 13:36, Bob Armstrong wrote:
  I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?

Thanks,
Bob Armstrong





_______________________________________________

Simh mailing list

Simh at trailing-edge.com<mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com>

http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

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From bob at supnik.org  Fri Jun  7 15:52:13 2013
From: bob at supnik.org (Bob Supnik)
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 15:52:13 -0400
Subject: [Simh] TA11/CAPS11 progress
Message-ID: <51B239ED.7070801@supnik.org>

Thanks to Ian Hammond, Lou Ernst, Malcolm Macloud, and Jack Rubin, 
CAPS11 now runs on SimH. The key bug was in the reset routine.

ta_cs = 0;

should be

ta_cs = TACS_RDY;

In addition, I've added the CAPS11 bootstrap into the emulator module, 
so no more toggle-in required.

In the course of this work, I discovered a bug in the CPU SET <model> 
command that inadvertently disabled some devices improperly. Further, 
the CR11/CD11 starts off enabled; because the default CPU is an 11/73 (a 
Qbus machine), it should start off disabled.

Lou Ernst reported that RT11 V5 does not work with the TA11, even on 
real hardware. The simulated TA11 does work under RT11 V4; it's included 
in the stock FB monitor.

One anomaly with RT11 V4 - after writing files to CT0: and then doing a 
DIRECTORY, all the files lengths are 0. The files are there. I can type 
them and DIFF them against their source.  Does anyone know if this is 
the expected behavior?

Thanks,

/Bob


From tshoppa at wmata.com  Fri Jun  7 16:19:46 2013
From: tshoppa at wmata.com (Shoppa, Tim)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 20:19:46 +0000
Subject: [Simh] TA11/CAPS11 progress
In-Reply-To: <51B239ED.7070801@supnik.org>
Message-ID: <303A17BD5F8FA34DA45EEC245271AC0B8F48EB8A@JGEX2K10MBX2.wmata.local>

For RT-11 V5.7 we made some effort to test all the drivers (including "unsupported" ones) but we never had TA11 hardware to test.

I will dust off V4 sources and see what the deal is with zero block DIR listings, now that you got TA11 to work in simulation!

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Supnik [mailto:bob at supnik.org]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 03:52 PM
To: simh at trailing-edge.com <simh at trailing-edge.com>
Subject: [Simh] TA11/CAPS11 progress

Thanks to Ian Hammond, Lou Ernst, Malcolm Macloud, and Jack Rubin, 
CAPS11 now runs on SimH. The key bug was in the reset routine.

ta_cs = 0;

should be

ta_cs = TACS_RDY;

In addition, I've added the CAPS11 bootstrap into the emulator module, 
so no more toggle-in required.

In the course of this work, I discovered a bug in the CPU SET <model> 
command that inadvertently disabled some devices improperly. Further, 
the CR11/CD11 starts off enabled; because the default CPU is an 11/73 (a 
Qbus machine), it should start off disabled.

Lou Ernst reported that RT11 V5 does not work with the TA11, even on 
real hardware. The simulated TA11 does work under RT11 V4; it's included 
in the stock FB monitor.

One anomaly with RT11 V4 - after writing files to CT0: and then doing a 
DIRECTORY, all the files lengths are 0. The files are there. I can type 
them and DIFF them against their source.  Does anyone know if this is 
the expected behavior?

Thanks,

/Bob
_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
Simh at trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh


From litt at ieee.org  Fri Jun  7 17:58:40 2013
From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt)
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 17:58:40 -0400
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AC4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
References: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com> <51B22673.2090206@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AC4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
Message-ID: <51B25790.50804@ieee.org>

>> I  don't think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.

Yes, it was.  See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/spddecnetplusvax73.pdf 
page 13 table 2.  DUP wasn't added in 7.3;  it would have been there all 
along.  This was just the first SPD I grabbed.  There were also sync 
line adapters for Microvax - I have one here, I think.  DSW4{1,2,3}.  
And QBus (DPV/DSV, BI (DMB/DSB).  Gory details in the SPD.

You needed the WAN Drivers layered product, though.
> The DUP11 is supported on a VAXBI system fitted
> with a DWBUA UNIBUS adapter for VAX 8200, VAX
> 8250, VAX 8300, VAX 8300, VAX 8350, VAX 8500,
> VAX 8530, VAX 8550, VAX 8700, and VAX 8800 systems only

(Oddly, I didn't see DMC/DMR listed, but I do remember them working...)

Yes, Phase V supported DDCMP as a transport layer.  No version change.


This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.

On 07-Jun-13 15:45, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:
>
> I believe that the DUP11 emulation is working.  It has been tested 
> minimally on RSX11M+ talking to RSX11M+.  Never having been a user of 
> these systems I don't have enough experience to do rigorous testing.  
> Anyone willing to test more rigorously is welcome.
>
> In theory, the DUP11 could work for VAX Unibus systems, however I 
> don't think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.  Maybe for 
> DECnet Phase V, but I can't seem to find support prior to that.  Even 
> in the DECnet Phase V case, the DUP11 smiulation ONLY supports DDCMP 
> on the wire and I don't know if that was what DECnet Phase V spoke on 
> the wire...  I welcome anyone with the experience to test.  Contact me 
> offline for specific help.
>
> The current code at github.com/simh/simh (downloadable as 
> https://github.com/simh/simh/archive/master.zip) will build PDP11 and 
> all the Unibus VAX simulators with DUP11 support.  If DDCMP on DUP11's 
> was never a supported protocol for VMS, we'll probably remove the DUP 
> from the VAX simulators before things settle down.
>
> As Rob and Tim have said, the KDP is still a work in progress.  The 
> ultimate goal will be to have the KDP talk to other KDP's and bare 
> DUP11's and the DMC11 all speaking DDCMP on the wire.
>
> The original KDP code spoke partial DDCMP on the wire (without DDCMP's 
> CRC's) and as Tim mentions below, had numerous issues with some 
> required OS interactions as well as correct observance of DDCMP's 
> packet boundaries in the data stream.
>
> Rob's DMC11 implementation didn't speak DDCMP on the wire at all.
>
> So work is ongoing to get each of these devices to talk a common 
> language and to meet OS expectations..
>
> -Mark
>
> *From:*simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com 
> [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com] *On Behalf Of *Timothe Litt
> *Sent:* Friday, June 07, 2013 11:29 AM
> *To:* simh at trailing-edge.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
>
>     I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a
>     KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of
>     months ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody
>     point me to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?
>
> Here's what I know:
>
> Rob Jarrett ported a KDP simulation to the latest emulator.  It didn't 
> quite work.  There's a personal repo on github, but it's not worth a 
> pointer.
>
> I have 2 -10s and 2 -20s  configured for DECnet (and ANF-10) running 
> on my desktop. (!)  No 11-based ANF nodes yet.
>
> I made some progress - I had ANF-10 up for an hour or so; DECnet-10 
> not at all; DECnet-20 sometimes.  The KDP emulation is missing some 
> commands that the OSs count on. My code isn't in the repo, yet.
>
> Mark Pizzolato has a DUP emulation that he says is mostly working on 
> 11s and VMS.  Rather than keep two DUP emulations, the plan was to 
> split the KDP into the KMC + DUP, rather like the real hardware.
>
> I've been off line for about the past 10 daze - e-mail appears and 
> disappears on my servers - the responsible party calls it an 
> 'upgrade', so I'm not sure what the current state pf the KDP/DMR work is.
>
> I have tracked down the COMIOP-DUP microcode USER's documentation with 
> the help of Al Kossow and Cynde Moya, and it's on bitsavers along with 
> the DMR tech manuals. (Both even agree with my memory.)
>
> http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/AA-5670A-TC_COMM_IOP-DUP_Programming_Manual_Jan78.pdf 
> and 
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-TM-002_Jan81.pdf; 
> also 
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-UG-002_DMR11_Synchronous_Controller_Users_Guide_Dec80.pdf
>
> Once I catch up on e-mail, I'll see what I can do to help, depending 
> on where Mark and Rob are.  (They may have given up on me  due to my 
> on/off (mostly off) mail service. Hopefully that's fixed.)
>
> I have 2,475 e-mail messages to sort thru before I'm up-to-date...but 
> should have some time this weekend.  I hope.
>
>
> This communication may not represent my employer's views,
> if any, on the matters discussed.
>
> On 07-Jun-13 13:36, Bob Armstrong wrote:
>
>       I've decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on
>     a KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple
>     of months ago, but I'm not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody
>     point me to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Bob Armstrong
>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     Simh mailing list
>
>     Simh at trailing-edge.com  <mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com>
>
>     http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>

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From baker at usgs.gov  Fri Jun  7 18:24:04 2013
From: baker at usgs.gov (Larry Baker)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 15:24:04 -0700
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.297.1370642329.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
References: <mailman.297.1370642329.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <EB197BB1-F8EE-44A3-95FF-F477E1DC5587@usgs.gov>

On 7 Jun 2013, at 2:58 PM, <simh-request at trailing-edge.com> <simh-request at trailing-edge.com> wrote:

> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 17:58:40 -0400
> From: Timothe Litt <litt at ieee.org>
> To: Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com>,
> 	"simh at trailing-edge.com" <simh at trailing-edge.com>
> Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
> Message-ID: <51B25790.50804 at ieee.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
> 
>>> I  don't think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.
> 
> Yes, it was.  See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/spddecnetplusvax73.pdf 
> page 13 table 2.  DUP wasn't added in 7.3;  it would have been there all 
> along.  This was just the first SPD I grabbed.  There were also sync 
> line adapters for Microvax - I have one here, I think.  DSW4{1,2,3}.  
> And QBus (DPV/DSV, BI (DMB/DSB).  Gory details in the SPD.
> 
> You needed the WAN Drivers layered product, though.
>> The DUP11 is supported on a VAXBI system fitted
>> with a DWBUA UNIBUS adapter for VAX 8200, VAX
>> 8250, VAX 8300, VAX 8300, VAX 8350, VAX 8500,
>> VAX 8530, VAX 8550, VAX 8700, and VAX 8800 systems only
> 
> (Oddly, I didn't see DMC/DMR listed, but I do remember them working...)
> 

We ran DMRs between our VAX-11/780 and PDP-11/70 RSX-11M-Plus -- predating DECnet Phase IV.  (Wasn't Phase IV the first release that supported Ethernet?)  I remember doing poor-man's routing from the VAX through the 11/70 to an LSI-11/23 in a lab (over a DZ-11 async serial line!).

My recollection is that DECnet always used DDCMP over serial lines.  I thought the DMR did the DDCMP protocol in hardware.  Maybe DMZ's too?

> Yes, Phase V supported DDCMP as a transport layer.  No version change.

Larry Baker
US Geological Survey
650-329-5608
baker at usgs.gov

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From litt at ieee.org  Fri Jun  7 18:30:49 2013
From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt)
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 18:30:49 -0400
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <EB197BB1-F8EE-44A3-95FF-F477E1DC5587@usgs.gov>
References: <mailman.297.1370642329.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <EB197BB1-F8EE-44A3-95FF-F477E1DC5587@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <51B25F19.3000601@ieee.org>

>
> This communication may not represent my employer's views,
> if any, on the matters discussed.
> Wasn't Phase IV the first release that supported Ethernet?
Yes.
> My recollection is that DECnet always used DDCMP over serial lines.  I 
> thought the DMR did the DDCMP protocol in hardware. 
Yes, yes.

> Maybe DMZ's too?
No.

This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.

On 07-Jun-13 18:24, Larry Baker wrote:
> On 7 Jun 2013, at 2:58 PM, <simh-request at trailing-edge.com 
> <mailto:simh-request at trailing-edge.com>> 
> <simh-request at trailing-edge.com 
> <mailto:simh-request at trailing-edge.com>> wrote:
>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 17:58:40 -0400
>> From: Timothe Litt <litt at ieee.org <mailto:litt at ieee.org>>
>> To: Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com 
>> <mailto:Mark at infocomm.com>>,
>> "simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>" 
>> <simh at trailing-edge.com <mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
>> Message-ID: <51B25790.50804 at ieee.org <mailto:51B25790.50804 at ieee.org>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>>
>>>> I  don't think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.
>>
>> Yes, it was.  Seehttp://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/spddecnetplusvax73.pdf
>> page 13 table 2.  DUP wasn't added in 7.3;  it would have been there all
>> along.  This was just the first SPD I grabbed.  There were also sync
>> line adapters for Microvax - I have one here, I think.  DSW4{1,2,3}.
>> And QBus (DPV/DSV, BI (DMB/DSB).  Gory details in the SPD.
>>
>> You needed the WAN Drivers layered product, though.
>>> The DUP11 is supported on a VAXBI system fitted
>>> with a DWBUA UNIBUS adapter for VAX 8200, VAX
>>> 8250, VAX 8300, VAX 8300, VAX 8350, VAX 8500,
>>> VAX 8530, VAX 8550, VAX 8700, and VAX 8800 systems only
>>
>> (Oddly, I didn't see DMC/DMR listed, but I do remember them working...)
>>
>
> We ran DMRs between our VAX-11/780 and PDP-11/70 RSX-11M-Plus -- 
> predating DECnet Phase IV.  (Wasn't Phase IV the 
> first release that supported Ethernet?)  I remember doing poor-man's 
> routing from the VAX through the 11/70 to an LSI-11/23 in a lab (over 
> a DZ-11 async serial line!).
>
> My recollection is that DECnet always used DDCMP over serial lines.  I 
> thought the DMR did the DDCMP protocol in hardware.  Maybe DMZ's too?
>
>> Yes, Phase V supported DDCMP as a transport layer.  No version change.
>
> Larry Baker
> US Geological Survey
> 650-329-5608
> baker at usgs.gov <mailto:baker at usgs.gov>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

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From litt at ieee.org  Fri Jun  7 20:10:55 2013
From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt)
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 20:10:55 -0400
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
Message-ID: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>

I found an official DEC letter from 1992.

First, VAX Wide Area Networking is a separate product.  The kit name is 
SYNC (e.g. SYNC012 on the CDs).
It has a separate PAK - one of which is WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS.  The DUP for 
HDLC and Bisync requires it, but
apparently not for DDCMP.  But the DMC/DMR and other sync lines do.

Second, many of our plans assume a decnet router.  VMS VAX requires the 
DVNETRTG PAK to enable this.

I don't have current information, but 
http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt 
<http://www.aracnet.com/%7Ehealyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt> suggests that 
neither is in the Hobbyist PAK.  This may be because no one thought 
they'd be of interest to hobbyists.  It's also possible that this 
information has been superseded - it's 13 years old, so we need to 
verify it.

Third, VAX DECnet/OSI Phase V officially withdrew support for the DMR11, 
DMV11, KMV1A, KMS1P and  KMS11 devices.
I don't know if they stopped working, or just stopped being supported.  
DEC suggested DMR->Ethernet, DMV/KMV-> DSV and KMS -> DMF32 as 
replacements. (The DMC had previously been retired as the DMR was a more 
capable device, and the DMC had some ucode bugs.)

This may mean that we have to use -11s for routers, if we can't get HP 
to include these PAKs in the Hobbyist PAK for VMS.

Of course, anyone who is replacing real hardware with an emulator can 
(as I understand it) move PAKs from real hardware to their emulator.

We can probably find enough PAKs this way for development, but someone 
will have to take on finding the right person in HP to help create a 
real solution.  Since the folks who set up the hobbyist program are long 
gone, it may be a challenge, even though I don't see any reason for HP 
to refuse.

Meantime, we should solve the technical problems first.  They're 
probably easier...

-- 
This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.


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From Mark at infocomm.com  Fri Jun  7 20:17:18 2013
From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 17:17:18 -0700
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <51B25790.50804@ieee.org>
References: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com> <51B22673.2090206@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AC4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
 <51B25790.50804@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD2@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>

I concluded lack of DUP11 support since SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG.COM doesn’t mention the XW device (which the DUP11 would be called in VMS).  If someone has the pieces and they can be configured I’ll be glad to know, and it should be tested.

The mention of the VAXBI and DWBUA requirement was probably due to the fact that all of the other Unibus systems were past “End-Of-Life” when that SPD was written.  The DUP11 is a programmed I/O device which does nothing special on the bus.  It should work on any Unibus as long as there was software support.

If someone has the software pieces and we can test I’ll be glad to know.

The DUP11 simulator has partial support for also simulating the DPV11 on Qbus systems.  This has not been fully debugged yet.  There are enough interface differences here between the DUP11 and the DPV11 that VMS has different drivers.  I’ll announce when RSX11M+ using a DPV11 can talk to another RSX11M+ using a DUP11.


-          Mark

From: Timothe Litt [mailto:litt at ieee.org]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 2:59 PM
To: Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm; simh at trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?

>> I don’t think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.

Yes, it was.  See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/spddecnetplusvax73.pdf page 13 table 2.  DUP wasn't added in 7.3;  it would have been there all along.  This was just the first SPD I grabbed.  There were also sync line adapters for Microvax - I have one here, I think.  DSW4{1,2,3}.  And QBus (DPV/DSV, BI (DMB/DSB).  Gory details in the SPD.

You needed the WAN Drivers layered product, though.

The DUP11 is supported on a VAXBI system fitted
with a DWBUA UNIBUS adapter for VAX 8200, VAX
8250, VAX 8300, VAX 8300, VAX 8350, VAX 8500,
VAX 8530, VAX 8550, VAX 8700, and VAX 8800 systems only

(Oddly, I didn't see DMC/DMR listed, but I do remember them working...)

Yes, Phase V supported DDCMP as a transport layer.  No version change.




This communication may not represent my employer's views,

if any, on the matters discussed.
On 07-Jun-13 15:45, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:
I believe that the DUP11 emulation is working.  It has been tested minimally on RSX11M+ talking to RSX11M+.  Never having been a user of these systems I don’t have enough experience to do rigorous testing.  Anyone willing to test more rigorously is welcome.

In theory, the DUP11 could work for VAX Unibus systems, however I don’t think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.  Maybe for DECnet Phase V, but I can’t seem to find support prior to that.  Even in the DECnet Phase V case, the DUP11 smiulation ONLY supports DDCMP on the wire and I don’t know if that was what DECnet Phase V spoke on the wire…  I welcome anyone with the experience to test.  Contact me offline for specific help.

The current code at github.com/simh/simh (downloadable as https://github.com/simh/simh/archive/master.zip) will build PDP11 and all the Unibus VAX simulators with DUP11 support.  If DDCMP on DUP11’s was never a supported protocol for VMS, we’ll probably remove the DUP from the VAX simulators before things settle down.

As Rob and Tim have said, the KDP is still a work in progress.  The ultimate goal will be to have the KDP talk to other KDP’s and bare DUP11’s and the DMC11 all speaking DDCMP on the wire.

The original KDP code spoke partial DDCMP on the wire (without DDCMP’s CRC’s) and as Tim mentions below, had numerous issues with some required OS interactions as well as correct observance of DDCMP’s packet boundaries in the data stream.

Rob’s DMC11 implementation didn’t speak DDCMP on the wire at all.

So work is ongoing to get each of these devices to talk a common language and to meet OS expectations..


-          Mark

From: simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com<mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com> [mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Timothe Litt
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 11:29 AM
To: simh at trailing-edge.com<mailto:simh at trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?

I’ve decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months ago, but I’m not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?
Here's what I know:

Rob Jarrett ported a KDP simulation to the latest emulator.  It didn't quite work.  There's a personal repo on github, but it's not worth a pointer.

I have 2 -10s and 2 -20s  configured for DECnet (and ANF-10) running on my desktop. (!)  No 11-based ANF nodes yet.

I made some progress - I had ANF-10 up for an hour or so; DECnet-10 not at all; DECnet-20 sometimes.  The KDP emulation is missing some commands that the OSs count on.  My code isn't in the repo, yet.

Mark Pizzolato has a DUP emulation that he says is mostly working on 11s and VMS.  Rather than keep two DUP emulations, the plan was to split the KDP into the KMC + DUP, rather like the real hardware.

I've been off line for about the past 10 daze - e-mail appears and disappears on my servers - the responsible party calls it an 'upgrade', so I'm not sure what the current state pf the KDP/DMR work is.

I have tracked down the COMIOP-DUP microcode USER's documentation with the help of Al Kossow and Cynde Moya, and it's on bitsavers along with the DMR tech manuals.  (Both even agree with my memory.)

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/AA-5670A-TC_COMM_IOP-DUP_Programming_Manual_Jan78.pdf and http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-TM-002_Jan81.pdf; also  http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-UG-002_DMR11_Synchronous_Controller_Users_Guide_Dec80.pdf

Once I catch up on e-mail, I'll see what I can do to help, depending on where Mark and Rob are.  (They may have given up on me  due to my on/off (mostly off) mail service.  Hopefully that's fixed.)

I have 2,475 e-mail messages to sort thru before I'm up-to-date...but should have some time this weekend.  I hope.




This communication may not represent my employer's views,

if any, on the matters discussed.
On 07-Jun-13 13:36, Bob Armstrong wrote:
  I’ve decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months ago, but I’m not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?

Thanks,
Bob Armstrong






_______________________________________________

Simh mailing list

Simh at trailing-edge.com<mailto:Simh at trailing-edge.com>

http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh


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From Mark at infocomm.com  Fri Jun  7 20:28:09 2013
From: Mark at infocomm.com (Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 17:28:09 -0700
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
In-Reply-To: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>

On Friday, June 07, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Timothe Litt wrote:
> I found an official DEC letter from 1992.
> 
> First, VAX Wide Area Networking is a separate product.  The kit name is SYNC
> (e.g. SYNC012 on the CDs).
> It has a separate PAK - one of which is WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS.  The DUP for
> HDLC and Bisync requires it, but apparently not for DDCMP.  But the
> DMC/DMR and other sync lines do.
> 
> Second, many of our plans assume a decnet router.  VMS VAX requires the
> DVNETRTG PAK to enable this.

The DVNETRTG PAK is included in the Hobbyist license set I got from HP.

There is no PAK for WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS though.

I believe that several folks are already running Rob Jarratt's DMC on VMS without any PAKs.  I don't know what version of VMS they are running though.  I suspect that V4.x didn't require PAKs for this stuff....

- Mark



From b4 at gewt.net  Fri Jun  7 20:30:29 2013
From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky)
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2013 00:30:29 -0000
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306072030070.6007@maelona>


On Fri, 8 Jun 2013, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:

>
> On Friday, June 07, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Timothe Litt wrote:
>> I found an official DEC letter from 1992.
>>
>> First, VAX Wide Area Networking is a separate product.  The kit name is SYNC
>> (e.g. SYNC012 on the CDs).
>> It has a separate PAK - one of which is WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS.  The DUP for
>> HDLC and Bisync requires it, but apparently not for DDCMP.  But the
>> DMC/DMR and other sync lines do.
>>
>> Second, many of our plans assume a decnet router.  VMS VAX requires the
>> DVNETRTG PAK to enable this.
>
> The DVNETRTG PAK is included in the Hobbyist license set I got from HP.
>
> There is no PAK for WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS though.
>
> I believe that several folks are already running Rob Jarratt's DMC on VMS without any PAKs.  I don't know what version of VMS they are running though.  I suspect that V4.x didn't require PAKs for this stuff....
>

4.x needed a DECnet PAK.  I have it laying around if needed.

> - Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>

--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments


From jg at jordi.guillaumes.name  Fri Jun  7 20:50:17 2013
From: jg at jordi.guillaumes.name (Jordi Guillaumes i Pons)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 02:50:17 +0200
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
In-Reply-To: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
Message-ID: <07B505C6-E44B-4F6B-B896-487BF8FD0FCB@jordi.guillaumes.name>


El 08/06/2013, a les 2:28, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com> va escriure:

> I believe that several folks are already running Rob Jarratt's DMC on VMS without any PAKs.  I don't know what version of VMS they are running though.  I suspect that V4.x didn't require PAKs for this stuff....

I run DDCMP over the simulated DMC lines under 4.7. But I have just set up a DMC-0 circuit under 7.3 (with no WAN PAK) and the link is alive and working right now...

[BTES01]$ sh sys
OpenVMS V7.3  on node BTES01   8-JUN-2013 02:48:38.04  Uptime  0 00:05:45
  Pid    Process Name    State  Pri      I/O       CPU       Page flts  Pages
00000201 SWAPPER         HIB     16        0   0 00:00:00.26         0      0
00000205 CONFIGURE       HIB      8        5   0 00:00:00.18       112    175                              
...

[BTES01]$ sh license *wan*

Active licenses on node BTES01:

------- Product ID --------    ---- Rating ----- -- Version --
Product            Producer    Units Avail Activ Version Release    Termination
ALLIN1-MAIL-WAN-SE DEC             0  0     100    0.0  (none)      18-APR-2014                        


NCP>show known circuits


Known Circuit Volatile Summary as of  8-JUN-2013 02:49:15

   Circuit          State                   Loopback     Adjacent
                                              Name      Routing Node

  DMC-0             on                                7.61 (BITXOO)
  TT-1-3            off                                                                      


Perhaps the routing license also enables the WAN devices?


Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES






From healyzh at aracnet.com  Fri Jun  7 20:59:26 2013
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 17:59:26 -0700
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
In-Reply-To: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <p06240858cdd82fd2e8d1@[192.168.1.199]>

At 8:10 PM -0400 6/7/13, Timothe Litt wrote:
>Second, many of our plans assume a decnet router.  VMS VAX requires 
>the DVNETRTG PAK to enable this.

Are your plans hobbyist related?  I rarely have time to read the 
list, but the subject caught my eye.

>I don't have current information, but 
>http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt 
><http://www.aracnet.com/%7Ehealyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt> suggests 
>that neither is in the Hobbyist PAK.  This may be because no one 
>thought they'd be of interest to hobbyists.  It's also possible that 
>this information has been superseded - it's 13 years old, so we need 
>to verify it.

I hear that the FAQ is so old that the author forgot he wrote it... 
Cool document, he should probably see about finding time to update 
it, though I also hear he has no free time.

The Hobbyist PAK's I got last year included DVNETRTG (what you need), 
DVNETEND, and DVNETEXT (used for extended functionality on DECnet/OSI 
on the Alpha).

>Third, VAX DECnet/OSI Phase V officially withdrew support for the 
>DMR11, DMV11, KMV1A, KMS1P and  KMS11 devices.
>I don't know if they stopped working, or just stopped being 
>supported.  DEC suggested DMR->Ethernet, DMV/KMV-> DSV and KMS -> 
>DMF32 as replacements. (The DMC had previously been retired as the 
>DMR was a more capable device, and the DMC had some ucode bugs.)
>
>This may mean that we have to use -11s for routers, if we can't get 
>HP to include these PAKs in the Hobbyist PAK for VMS.
>
>Of course, anyone who is replacing real hardware with an emulator 
>can (as I understand it) move PAKs from real hardware to their 
>emulator.
>
>We can probably find enough PAKs this way for development, but 
>someone will have to take on finding the right person in HP to help 
>create a real solution.  Since the folks who set up the hobbyist 
>program are long gone, it may be a challenge, even though I don't 
>see any reason for HP to refuse.
>
>Meantime, we should solve the technical problems first.  They're 
>probably easier...

What hardware and OS are you trying to implement DECnet Router on? 
BTW, IIRC, you need to run Phase IV for routing.  ISTR that is why I 
moved from DECnet/OSI Phase V to Phase IV at home.

Anyway, the real reason I jumped into this thread is that I have some 
interest in setting up a VAX emulator as a DECnet Router.  My 
VAXstation 4000's are to unstable anymore to function reliably as a 
router.

Zane




-- 
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com              | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Photographer               |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|                     My flickr Photostream                     |
|          http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/           |
|                    My Photography Website                     |
|               http://www.zanesphotography.com                 |



From jg at jordi.guillaumes.name  Fri Jun  7 21:02:52 2013
From: jg at jordi.guillaumes.name (Jordi Guillaumes i Pons)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 03:02:52 +0200
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306072030070.6007@maelona>
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306072030070.6007@maelona>
Message-ID: <6E442795-BE87-4DAD-AA4A-9B1D34D5A469@jordi.guillaumes.name>


El 08/06/2013, a les 2:30, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:

> 4.x needed a DECnet PAK.  I have it laying around if needed.

Actually, it needed a DECnet _PATCH_ :) distributed as a VMSINSTAL kit :) I have it around too.


Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES






From ethan.dicks at gmail.com  Fri Jun  7 21:07:21 2013
From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 21:07:21 -0400
Subject: [Simh] TA11/CAPS11 progress
In-Reply-To: <303A17BD5F8FA34DA45EEC245271AC0B8F48EB8A@JGEX2K10MBX2.wmata.local>
References: <51B239ED.7070801@supnik.org>
 <303A17BD5F8FA34DA45EEC245271AC0B8F48EB8A@JGEX2K10MBX2.wmata.local>
Message-ID: <CAALmimn5RUecu+1-pgTSOXH=1tNYh3OSn=19r49C6VwqC+5Wgw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Shoppa, Tim <tshoppa at wmata.com> wrote:
> For RT-11 V5.7 we made some effort to test all the drivers (including "unsupported" ones) but we never had TA11 hardware to test.

I have a TA-11 but no media.  Anyone know if it's possible to test
with audio cassettes?  I know "real" tapes have a notch to mate with a
tab on the drive to prevent cheap tapes from being loaded, but are
there any worrisome issues (abrasion/head wear, etc) with modifying a
cheap tape for light use/testing?

-ethan


From b4 at gewt.net  Fri Jun  7 21:12:33 2013
From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky)
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2013 01:12:33 -0000
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306072030070.6007@maelona>
 <6E442795-BE87-4DAD-AA4A-9B1D34D5A469@jordi.guillaumes.name>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306072112200.6007@maelona>


On Fri, 8 Jun 2013, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote:

>
>
> El 08/06/2013, a les 2:30, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
>
>> 4.x needed a DECnet PAK.  I have it laying around if needed.
>
> Actually, it needed a DECnet _PATCH_ :) distributed as a VMSINSTAL kit :) I have it around too.
>

Just a technicality. ;)

>
> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
> jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
> HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>

--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments


From johnforecast at comcast.net  Fri Jun  7 22:07:31 2013
From: johnforecast at comcast.net (John Forecast)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 22:07:31 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Simh Digest, Vol 114, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.292.1370629753.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
References: <mailman.292.1370629753.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <C0FC9A73-0C34-46E3-B69B-5D2429195226@comcast.net>


On Jun 7, 2013, at 2:29 PM, simh-request at trailing-edge.com wrote:

> You wouldn't happen to have any of those old DECnet-11M tapes lying
> around, would you?  I've looked for archived distributions of DECnet-11/M
> prior to Phase IV many times and have never found a complete one.

	Regrettably no. I also would like to run some of the older distributions.

	  John.

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From petermallan at gmail.com  Sat Jun  8 04:58:38 2013
From: petermallan at gmail.com (Peter Allan)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 09:58:38 +0100
Subject: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?
In-Reply-To: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD2@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
References: <005701ce63a5$865fc4e0$931f4ea0$@com> <51B22673.2090206@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AC4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
 <51B25790.50804@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD2@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
Message-ID: <CAJCrz56G-OhpEK+du3Hhtiuxb7tD+wnThfJumh5yTirXfSuUtw@mail.gmail.com>

I can confirm that the DUP11 was supported by VMS since the first VAX that
I managed (a venerable VAX-11/780) had a DUP11 as its network interface.
The system ran VMS 3.x (and maybe 4.x) and it is possible that the driver
was part of the PSI software (which was the biggest culprit of system
crashes).

I am VERY interested in having both a DUP11 and DPV11 to add to my emulated
systems, so I await their availability with bated breath.

Cheers

Peter Allan


On 8 June 2013 01:17, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com> wrote:

> I concluded lack of DUP11 support since SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG.COM doesn’t
> mention the XW device (which the DUP11 would be called in VMS).  If someone
> has the pieces and they can be configured I’ll be glad to know, and it
> should be tested.****
>
> ** **
>
> The mention of the VAXBI and DWBUA requirement was probably due to the
> fact that all of the other Unibus systems were past “End-Of-Life” when that
> SPD was written.  The DUP11 is a programmed I/O device which does nothing
> special on the bus.  It should work on any Unibus as long as there was
> software support.****
>
> ** **
>
> If someone has the software pieces and we can test I’ll be glad to know.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> The DUP11 simulator has partial support for also simulating the DPV11 on
> Qbus systems.  This has not been fully debugged yet.  There are enough
> interface differences here between the DUP11 and the DPV11 that VMS has
> different drivers.  I’ll announce when RSX11M+ using a DPV11 can talk to
> another RSX11M+ using a DUP11.****
>
> ** **
>
> **-          **Mark****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Timothe Litt [mailto:litt at ieee.org]
> *Sent:* Friday, June 07, 2013 2:59 PM
> *To:* Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm; simh at trailing-edge.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?****
>
> ** **
>
> >> I don’t think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.
>
> Yes, it was.  See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/spddecnetplusvax73.pdfpage 13 table 2.  DUP wasn't added in 7.3;  it would have been there all
> along.  This was just the first SPD I grabbed.  There were also sync line
> adapters for Microvax - I have one here, I think.  DSW4{1,2,3}.  And QBus
> (DPV/DSV, BI (DMB/DSB).  Gory details in the SPD.
>
> You needed the WAN Drivers layered product, though.
>
> ****
>
> The DUP11 is supported on a VAXBI system fitted
> with a DWBUA UNIBUS adapter for VAX 8200, VAX
> 8250, VAX 8300, VAX 8300, VAX 8350, VAX 8500,
> VAX 8530, VAX 8550, VAX 8700, and VAX 8800 systems only****
>
>
> (Oddly, I didn't see DMC/DMR listed, but I do remember them working...)
>
> Yes, Phase V supported DDCMP as a transport layer.  No version change.
>
>
>
> ****
>
> This communication may not represent my employer's views,****
>
> if any, on the matters discussed. ****
>
> On 07-Jun-13 15:45, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:****
>
> I believe that the DUP11 emulation is working.  It has been tested
> minimally on RSX11M+ talking to RSX11M+.  Never having been a user of these
> systems I don’t have enough experience to do rigorous testing.  Anyone
> willing to test more rigorously is welcome.****
>
>  ****
>
> In theory, the DUP11 could work for VAX Unibus systems, however I don’t
> think the DUP11 was ever a supported device on VMS.  Maybe for DECnet Phase
> V, but I can’t seem to find support prior to that.  Even in the DECnet
> Phase V case, the DUP11 smiulation ONLY supports DDCMP on the wire and I
> don’t know if that was what DECnet Phase V spoke on the wire…  I welcome
> anyone with the experience to test.  Contact me offline for specific help.
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> The current code at github.com/simh/simh (downloadable as
> https://github.com/simh/simh/archive/master.zip) will build PDP11 and all
> the Unibus VAX simulators with DUP11 support.  If DDCMP on DUP11’s was
> never a supported protocol for VMS, we’ll probably remove the DUP from the
> VAX simulators before things settle down.****
>
>  ****
>
> As Rob and Tim have said, the KDP is still a work in progress.  The
> ultimate goal will be to have the KDP talk to other KDP’s and bare DUP11’s
> and the DMC11 all speaking DDCMP on the wire.****
>
>  ****
>
> The original KDP code spoke partial DDCMP on the wire (without DDCMP’s
> CRC’s) and as Tim mentions below, had numerous issues with some required OS
> interactions as well as correct observance of DDCMP’s packet boundaries in
> the data stream.****
>
>  ****
>
> Rob’s DMC11 implementation didn’t speak DDCMP on the wire at all.****
>
>  ****
>
> So work is ongoing to get each of these devices to talk a common language
> and to meet OS expectations..****
>
>  ****
>
> **-          **Mark****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com [
> mailto:simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com <simh-bounces at trailing-edge.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Timothe Litt
> *Sent:* Friday, June 07, 2013 11:29 AM
> *To:* simh at trailing-edge.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Simh] PDP-10 simulator with DMR/KDP support?****
>
>  ****
>
> I’ve decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a
> KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months
> ago, but I’m not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy
> of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?****
>
> Here's what I know:
>
> Rob Jarrett ported a KDP simulation to the latest emulator.  It didn't
> quite work.  There's a personal repo on github, but it's not worth a
> pointer.
>
> I have 2 -10s and 2 -20s  configured for DECnet (and ANF-10) running on my
> desktop. (!)  No 11-based ANF nodes yet.
>
> I made some progress - I had ANF-10 up for an hour or so; DECnet-10 not at
> all; DECnet-20 sometimes.  The KDP emulation is missing some commands that
> the OSs count on.  My code isn't in the repo, yet.
>
> Mark Pizzolato has a DUP emulation that he says is mostly working on 11s
> and VMS.  Rather than keep two DUP emulations, the plan was to split the
> KDP into the KMC + DUP, rather like the real hardware.
>
> I've been off line for about the past 10 daze - e-mail appears and
> disappears on my servers - the responsible party calls it an 'upgrade', so
> I'm not sure what the current state pf the KDP/DMR work is.
>
> I have tracked down the COMIOP-DUP microcode USER's documentation with the
> help of Al Kossow and Cynde Moya, and it's on bitsavers along with the DMR
> tech manuals.  (Both even agree with my memory.)
>
>
> http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/AA-5670A-TC_COMM_IOP-DUP_Programming_Manual_Jan78.pdfand
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-TM-002_Jan81.pdf;
> also
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/unibus/EK-DMR11-UG-002_DMR11_Synchronous_Controller_Users_Guide_Dec80.pdf
>
> Once I catch up on e-mail, I'll see what I can do to help, depending on
> where Mark and Rob are.  (They may have given up on me  due to my on/off
> (mostly off) mail service.  Hopefully that's fixed.)
>
> I have 2,475 e-mail messages to sort thru before I'm up-to-date...but
> should have some time this weekend.  I hope.
>
>
>
> ****
>
> This communication may not represent my employer's views,****
>
> if any, on the matters discussed. ****
>
> On 07-Jun-13 13:36, Bob Armstrong wrote:****
>
>   I’ve decided to try my hand at building a TOPS-10 with DECnet on a
> KS10/simh.  I followed a lot of the discussion of this a couple of months
> ago, but I’m not sure where it all ended.  Can anybody point me to a copy
> of the PDP10 simh with the latest DMR/KDP support?****
>
>  ****
>
> Thanks,****
>
> Bob Armstrong****
>
>  ****
>
>
>
>
>
> ****
>
> _______________________________________________****
>
> Simh mailing list****
>
> Simh at trailing-edge.com****
>
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh****
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
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From litt at ieee.org  Sat Jun  8 06:19:46 2013
From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt)
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2013 06:19:46 -0400
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
In-Reply-To: <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org>
 <0CC6789C1C831B4C8CCFF49D45D7010F9E73157AD4@REDROOF2.alohasunset.com>
Message-ID: <51B30542.3020903@ieee.org>

> The DVNETRTG PAK is included in the Hobbyist license set I got from HP.
I'm glad that DVNETRTG is now in the Hobbyist license.

> I suspect that V4.x didn't require PAKs

IIRC, LMF (PAK licensing) was introduced in VMS V5.  Prior to LMF, it 
was the honor system; there was nothing to prevent accidentally 
installing a kit on another system. (And you needed a license to get 
support, and action taken if you were caught.)  Early VAXes were 
expensive enough that people were careful; the honor system worked.  I'm 
not sure if LMF came about because DEC had problems as VMS became more 
accessible, or because it feared them.

Before LMF, I think DECnet for the local node was standard in VMS; 
buying the ability to connect to another machine required a license and 
a kit that installed a patch to enable it.  (This scheme allowed decnet 
syntax in filenames even for non-networked machines, which was 
remarkably useful.)

(LMF was designed/explained not as a license enforcement tool, but as a 
tool to help administrators manage licenses.  Sorta like the $0.35 locks 
used on cars until recently - remind honest people to stay honest, and 
provide evidence of intent when thievery was detected.  LMF was probably 
a $1.50 lock by that standard.)
> Perhaps the routing license also enables the WAN devices?
No.  Where the WAN device kit is required, it needed its own PAK. They 
may have been split off from VMS in the V5.x timeframe.  I know that 
systems running V5.4 require this kit and PAK for sync line support on 
the 3900; I have the physical kit (and PAK) for my system.


This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.

On 07-Jun-13 20:28, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:
> On Friday, June 07, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Timothe Litt wrote:
>> I found an official DEC letter from 1992.
>>
>> First, VAX Wide Area Networking is a separate product.  The kit name is SYNC
>> (e.g. SYNC012 on the CDs).
>> It has a separate PAK - one of which is WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS.  The DUP for
>> HDLC and Bisync requires it, but apparently not for DDCMP.  But the
>> DMC/DMR and other sync lines do.
>>
>> Second, many of our plans assume a decnet router.  VMS VAX requires the
>> DVNETRTG PAK to enable this.
> The DVNETRTG PAK is included in the Hobbyist license set I got from HP.
>
> There is no PAK for WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS though.
>
> I believe that several folks are already running Rob Jarratt's DMC on VMS without any PAKs.  I don't know what version of VMS they are running though.  I suspect that V4.x didn't require PAKs for this stuff....
>
> - Mark
>


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From litt at ieee.org  Sat Jun  8 06:31:25 2013
From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt)
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2013 06:31:25 -0400
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
In-Reply-To: <p06240858cdd82fd2e8d1@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org> <p06240858cdd82fd2e8d1@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <51B307FD.8020400@ieee.org>

Inline

This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.

On 07-Jun-13 20:59, Zane H. Healy wrote:
> At 8:10 PM -0400 6/7/13, Timothe Litt wrote:
>> Second, many of our plans assume a decnet router.  VMS VAX requires 
>> the DVNETRTG PAK to enable this.
>
> Are your plans hobbyist related?  I rarely have time to read the list, 
> but the subject caught my eye.
My personal plans?  Yes.  Naturally people who use simh for other 
purposes need to get other licenses.  Most of the developers of simh use 
the hobbyist program for licensing DEC software, as do many of the users.
>
>> I don't have current information, but 
>> http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt 
>> <http://www.aracnet.com/%7Ehealyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt> suggests 
>> that neither is in the Hobbyist PAK.  This may be because no one 
>> thought they'd be of interest to hobbyists.  It's also possible that 
>> this information has been superseded - it's 13 years old, so we need 
>> to verify it.
>
> I hear that the FAQ is so old that the author forgot he wrote it... 
> Cool document, he should probably see about finding time to update it, 
> though I also hear he has no free time.
>
None of us admit to having free time...we'd get put to work if we did.  
Still, an update would be nice.
> The Hobbyist PAK's I got last year included DVNETRTG (what you need), 
> DVNETEND, and DVNETEXT (used for extended functionality on DECnet/OSI 
> on the Alpha).
>
Good to hear that oversight was fixed.  There was some discussion when 
the program was initiated (I had a minor role); the product managers 
were happy to see a community of users/expertise, but cautious about the 
potential for abuse.  Now that VAX/VMS is not in the mainstream, I think 
the case can be made for making all products available.  (Well, except 
those where HP would have to pay a royalty to someone else...there was a 
little of that.)
>> ...
>
> What hardware and OS are you trying to implement DECnet Router on? 
> BTW, IIRC, you need to run Phase IV for routing.  ISTR that is why I 
> moved from DECnet/OSI Phase V to Phase IV at home.
>
Hardware: DUP, KDP, DMC, DMR interfaces to start with.  Probably the 
QBus variants eventually.
Architecture/OS: All of them :-)
Right now, we're working on network device support for the PDP-10 - the 
particular hardware only has serial line DECnet.
Thus the interest in routing; that allows them to get to the ethernet, 
and thence the world.
And TOPS-10's ANF-10 network interconnects PDP-11s.

> Anyway, the real reason I jumped into this thread is that I have some 
> interest in setting up a VAX emulator as a DECnet Router.  My 
> VAXstation 4000's are to unstable anymore to function reliably as a 
> router.
>
Should work fine today on ethernet.  But sync lines are what's under way.
> Zane
>
>
>
>


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From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com  Sat Jun  8 09:56:56 2013
From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 09:56:56 -0400
Subject: [Simh] VMS Network device support
In-Reply-To: <51B307FD.8020400@ieee.org>
References: <51B2768F.9070805@ieee.org> <p06240858cdd82fd2e8d1@192.168.1.199>
 <51B307FD.8020400@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <CAC5iaNGysPPecUZmsgLfwDOiyWQ5nTwVZ16tmc_UCk_Vh3-fXA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Timothe Litt <litt at ieee.org> wrote:
> Inline
>
>
> This communication may not represent my employer's views,
> if any, on the matters discussed.
>
> On 07-Jun-13 20:59, Zane H. Healy wrote:
>>
>> At 8:10 PM -0400 6/7/13, Timothe Litt wrote:
>>>
>>> Second, many of our plans assume a decnet router.  VMS VAX requires the
>>> DVNETRTG PAK to enable this.
>>
>>
>> Are your plans hobbyist related?  I rarely have time to read the list, but
>> the subject caught my eye.
>
> My personal plans?  Yes.  Naturally people who use simh for other purposes
> need to get other licenses.  Most of the developers of simh use the hobbyist
> program for licensing DEC software, as do many of the users.
>
>>
>>> I don't have current information, but
>>> http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt
>>> <http://www.aracnet.com/%7Ehealyzh/vms_hobbyist_faq.txt> suggests that
>>> neither is in the Hobbyist PAK.  This may be because no one thought they'd
>>> be of interest to hobbyists.  It's also possible that this information has
>>> been superseded - it's 13 years old, so we need to verify it.
>>
>>
>> I hear that the FAQ is so old that the author forgot he wrote it... Cool
>> document, he should probably see about finding time to update it, though I
>> also hear he has no free time.
>>
> None of us admit to having free time...we'd get put to work if we did.
> Still, an update would be nice.
>
>> The Hobbyist PAK's I got last year included DVNETRTG (what you need),
>> DVNETEND, and DVNETEXT (used for extended functionality on DECnet/OSI on the
>> Alpha).
>>
> Good to hear that oversight was fixed.  There was some discussion when the
> program was initiated (I had a minor role); the product managers were happy
> to see a community of users/expertise, but cautious about the potential for
> abuse.  Now that VAX/VMS is not in the mainstream, I think the case can be
> made for making all products available.  (Well, except those where HP would
> have to pay a royalty to someone else...there was a little of that.)
>
>>> ...
>>
>>
>> What hardware and OS are you trying to implement DECnet Router on? BTW,
>> IIRC, you need to run Phase IV for routing.  ISTR that is why I moved from
>> DECnet/OSI Phase V to Phase IV at home.
>>
> Hardware: DUP, KDP, DMC, DMR interfaces to start with.  Probably the QBus
> variants eventually.
> Architecture/OS: All of them :-)
> Right now, we're working on network device support for the PDP-10 - the
> particular hardware only has serial line DECnet.
> Thus the interest in routing; that allows them to get to the ethernet, and
> thence the world.
> And TOPS-10's ANF-10 network interconnects PDP-11s.
>
>
>> Anyway, the real reason I jumped into this thread is that I have some
>> interest in setting up a VAX emulator as a DECnet Router.  My VAXstation
>> 4000's are to unstable anymore to function reliably as a router.
>>
> Should work fine today on ethernet.  But sync lines are what's under way.
>>
>> Zane
>>

Hello!
I gave the term DVNETRTG PAK to a search engine and with the
completely useless responses, plus one or two of useful responses this
one came up: http://www2.hmc.edu/www_common/OVMS073/v73/6496/6496pro.HTML
it must means something of a sort.

-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."


From j at ckrubin.us  Mon Jun 10 03:01:31 2013
From: j at ckrubin.us (Jack Rubin)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 07:01:31 +0000
Subject: [Simh] "kiosk" mode for SIMH?
Message-ID: <de2040bd9cb043469ea7421d9963cf41@BLUPR05MB166.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

I'd like to set up a simulated pdp-11 for an exhibit; I'm running SIMH on a Raspberry Pi stuck inside a VT100. Is there a parameter to suppress the SIMH "banner" messages prior to the actual simulator boot message and after the simulator halt?

Thanks,
Jack


From b4 at gewt.net  Mon Jun 10 03:14:57 2013
From: b4 at gewt.net (Cory Smelosky)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 07:14:57 -0000
Subject: [Simh] "kiosk" mode for SIMH?
References: <de2040bd9cb043469ea7421d9963cf41@BLUPR05MB166.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1306100314050.22863@maelona>


On Mon, 10 Jun 2013, Jack Rubin wrote:

>
> I'd like to set up a simulated pdp-11 for an exhibit; I'm running SIMH on a Raspberry Pi stuck inside a VT100. Is there a parameter to suppress the SIMH "banner" messages prior to the actual simulator boot message and after the simulator halt?
>

You could run simh behind the scenes with the console outputting to a 
different serial port.

> Thanks,
> Jack
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>

--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments


From dott.piergiorgio at fastwebnet.it  Mon Jun 10 11:52:44 2013
From: dott.piergiorgio at fastwebnet.it (dott.Piergiorgio d' Errico)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 17:52:44 +0200
Subject: [Simh] "kiosk" mode for SIMH?
In-Reply-To: <de2040bd9cb043469ea7421d9963cf41@BLUPR05MB166.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <de2040bd9cb043469ea7421d9963cf41@BLUPR05MB166.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <51B5F64C.5010007@fastwebnet.it>

Il 10/06/2013 09:01, Jack Rubin ha scritto:
> I'd like to set up a simulated pdp-11 for an exhibit; I'm running
> SIMH on a Raspberry Pi stuck inside a VT100. Is there a parameter to
> suppress the SIMH "banner" messages prior to the actual simulator
> boot message and after the simulator halt?

Currently, not; but being an OS software, adding a -q or -v0 switch 
should be really simple... I guess everyone here can post his rendition 
(if not more than one..) of the patch needed ;)

(yes, I'm actually suggesting a coding contest :D )

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio


From sm0oom at bredband.net  Sat Jun 15 17:05:27 2013
From: sm0oom at bredband.net (Mats Persson)
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:05:27 +0200
Subject: [Simh] Nova and Asynchronous Multiplexers
Message-ID: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>

Hi,

I have not been able to figure out how to use the terminal multiplexers on the 
Nova simulator. Using the standard Telnet client on Ubuntu 12.04 I get as far 
as the message "Connected to the NOVA simulator ALM device, line 0" but after 
that there is no response.

I'm using the RDOS disk image that is available on the Software Kits page 
(rdos_d31.dsk). Since I'm by no means an RDOS expert it may well be an RDOS 
configuration problem. I have the same problem with the second terminal (TTI1 
and TTO1).

I have compiled the latest SIMH release (V3.9-0) on 64-bit Ubuntu 12.04. The 
results are the same using the version that comes with Ubuntu or using a 32-
bit platform.

Does anyone have a clue how to get this working?

/Mats


From bob at jfcl.com  Tue Jun 18 00:00:16 2013
From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 21:00:16 -0700
Subject: [Simh] Subtle H316 TTY interrupt bug?
Message-ID: <00bd01ce6bd8$57945550$06bcfff0$@com>

  I need an H316 expert to confirm this for me, but I think there's a subtle
bug in the way simh handles the TTY output mode switch (Yes, the 316 has a
half duplex console terminal interface!) and interrupts.

 

 
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/series16/h316/70130072176C_
316_CPU_Descr_Apr73.pdf

 

is a description of the H316 CPU logic and the very end, around page 2-31
thru 37, talk about the TTY interface.  In particular, 2-37 describes the
"dummy cycle" that's inserted when hardware is switched from input to output
mode, and 2-38 even has a timing diagram to show how it happens. 

 

  Consider the two instruction sequence

 

               OCP       104                       / SELECT TTY OUTPUT MODE

               OTA       4                            / OUTPUT A CHARACTER

 

Assuming the interrupt system is enabled and that the TTY interface is
currently idle, simh is written to interrupt immediately after the OCP 104
and before the OTA.  That means that the code effectively gets an output
done interrupt before the output is ever started!  Based on the description
in the above manual, I'm pretty sure this is wrong.  The "dummy cycle"
inserts a delay between the OCP and the flag setting, and by that time the
OTA has been executed, the output flag is cleared, and there's never any
interrupt asserted by the OCP.  No interrupt occurs until the character
output is actually finished.

 

  So, is there an H316 expert out there that can confirm this theory for me?

 

Thanks

Bob

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From quentin at quentin.org.uk  Tue Jun 18 10:29:59 2013
From: quentin at quentin.org.uk (Quentin North)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:29:59 +0100
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 ptr device
In-Reply-To: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>
References: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>
Message-ID: <69EE207D-AF4F-4893-B835-60823785EBF9@quentin.org.uk>

Hi

Has anyone got the simh ptr device to read a "paper tape" file on the HP2100? 

I seem to be having problems getting a ptr to read when using HP Access system with the ptr attached to the IOP HP2100. Access reports the PR0 device as not ready, but all indications on the IOP HP2100 simh console are that the input file is open and the ptr is attached. This is confirmed by using lsof on the input file which shows it as opened by the HP2100 IOP process. Using simh v39-0.

All help appreciated,

Thanks

From jdbryan at acm.org  Wed Jun 19 00:04:44 2013
From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 00:04:44 -0400
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 ptr device
In-Reply-To: <69EE207D-AF4F-4893-B835-60823785EBF9@quentin.org.uk>
References: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>,
 <69EE207D-AF4F-4893-B835-60823785EBF9@quentin.org.uk>
Message-ID: <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 at 15:29, Quentin North wrote:

> Has anyone got the simh ptr device to read a "paper tape" file on the
> HP2100?

I use the paper tape reader regularly under DOS and RTE to load both source 
and binary tape images.  Also, as documented in "hp2100_diag.txt", the PTR 
device passes the paper tape reader diagnostic.

That said, I've never tried to use it under TSB.


> I seem to be having problems getting a ptr to read when using HP
> Access system with the ptr attached to the IOP HP2100. Access reports
> the PR0 device as not ready, but all indications on the IOP HP2100 simh
> console are that the input file is open and the ptr is attached. 

What does the DEVICE command report?  And is SIMH configured to put the 
paper tape reader on the same select code as is reported by DEVICE?

                                      -- Dave



From quentin at quentin.org.uk  Wed Jun 19 04:52:56 2013
From: quentin at quentin.org.uk (Quentin North)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:52:56 +0100
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 ptr device
In-Reply-To: <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>
 <69EE207D-AF4F-4893-B835-60823785EBF9@quentin.org.uk>
 <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A07944B9-4748-4F9C-8C93-C105F2D1CB90@quentin.org.uk>

Hi Dave

TSB is reporting PR0 on select code 16 which is at same as the assigned device on the IOP. the only slight question in my mind about that is that the may ape device on the main processor is also select code 16 and I wonder if that is the issue?

Sent from my iPad

On 19 Jun 2013, at 05:04, "J. David Bryan" <jdbryan at acm.org> wrote:

> On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 at 15:29, Quentin North wrote:
> 
>> Has anyone got the simh ptr device to read a "paper tape" file on the
>> HP2100?
> 
> I use the paper tape reader regularly under DOS and RTE to load both source 
> and binary tape images.  Also, as documented in "hp2100_diag.txt", the PTR 
> device passes the paper tape reader diagnostic.
> 
> That said, I've never tried to use it under TSB.
> 
> 
>> I seem to be having problems getting a ptr to read when using HP
>> Access system with the ptr attached to the IOP HP2100. Access reports
>> the PR0 device as not ready, but all indications on the IOP HP2100 simh
>> console are that the input file is open and the ptr is attached.
> 
> What does the DEVICE command report?  And is SIMH configured to put the 
> paper tape reader on the same select code as is reported by DEVICE?
> 
>                                      -- Dave
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh


From quentin at quentin.org.uk  Wed Jun 19 04:56:39 2013
From: quentin at quentin.org.uk (Quentin North)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:56:39 +0100
Subject: [Simh] GE are hiring PDP-11 assembler programmers
In-Reply-To: <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>
 <69EE207D-AF4F-4893-B835-60823785EBF9@quentin.org.uk>
 <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <18A45BD9-4927-4D31-B772-55A6C68FE671@quentin.org.uk>

I don't know if anyone else has picked up on this, but GE Canada are hiring PDP-11 assembler programmers.  More details via this news article http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/


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From quentin at quentin.org.uk  Wed Jun 19 04:58:02 2013
From: quentin at quentin.org.uk (Quentin North)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:58:02 +0100
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 ptr device
In-Reply-To: <A07944B9-4748-4F9C-8C93-C105F2D1CB90@quentin.org.uk>
References: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>
 <69EE207D-AF4F-4893-B835-60823785EBF9@quentin.org.uk>
 <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <A07944B9-4748-4F9C-8C93-C105F2D1CB90@quentin.org.uk>
Message-ID: <61714F01-7319-43E5-B4C2-0ECAE2B1108F@quentin.org.uk>

Curse the auto correct. I of course meant that the MT0 tape device on the main processor is also on select code 16. 

Sent from my iPad

On 19 Jun 2013, at 09:52, Quentin North <quentin at quentin.org.uk> wrote:

> Hi Dave
> 
> TSB is reporting PR0 on select code 16 which is at same as the assigned device on the IOP. the only slight question in my mind about that is that the may ape device on the main processor is also select code 16 and I wonder if that is the issue?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 19 Jun 2013, at 05:04, "J. David Bryan" <jdbryan at acm.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 at 15:29, Quentin North wrote:
>> 
>>> Has anyone got the simh ptr device to read a "paper tape" file on the
>>> HP2100?
>> 
>> I use the paper tape reader regularly under DOS and RTE to load both source 
>> and binary tape images.  Also, as documented in "hp2100_diag.txt", the PTR 
>> device passes the paper tape reader diagnostic.
>> 
>> That said, I've never tried to use it under TSB.
>> 
>> 
>>> I seem to be having problems getting a ptr to read when using HP
>>> Access system with the ptr attached to the IOP HP2100. Access reports
>>> the PR0 device as not ready, but all indications on the IOP HP2100 simh
>>> console are that the input file is open and the ptr is attached.
>> 
>> What does the DEVICE command report?  And is SIMH configured to put the 
>> paper tape reader on the same select code as is reported by DEVICE?
>> 
>>                                     -- Dave
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Simh mailing list
>> Simh at trailing-edge.com
>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh


From bqt at softjar.se  Wed Jun 19 05:27:38 2013
From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:27:38 +0200
Subject: [Simh] GE are hiring PDP-11 assembler programmers
In-Reply-To: <18A45BD9-4927-4D31-B772-55A6C68FE671@quentin.org.uk>
References: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>
 <69EE207D-AF4F-4893-B835-60823785EBF9@quentin.org.uk>
 <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <18A45BD9-4927-4D31-B772-55A6C68FE671@quentin.org.uk>
Message-ID: <51C1798A.9030609@softjar.se>

On 2013-06-19 10:56, Quentin North wrote:
> I don't know if anyone else has picked up on this, but GE Canada are
> hiring PDP-11 assembler programmers.  More details via this news article
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/

They are free to contact me. :-)

	Johnny



From bob at supnik.org  Wed Jun 19 18:15:42 2013
From: bob at supnik.org (Bob Supnik)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 18:15:42 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Subtle H316 TTY interrupt bug?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <51C22D8E.7040108@supnik.org>

Yes, this is a bug.

OCP triggers a delay cycle of some time during which TTY interrupts are 
suppressed. This is to allow time to get the first character out. READY 
does set as a result of the OCP, so interrupt suppression happens by 
other means. Adrian Wise's simulator does this by manipulating the SMK 
mask, but the hardware doesn't works that way.

The interrupt logic is conditioned by the combination of READY and 
!BUSY. This is confirmed by schematic LBD 0.342, where a 3 input AND 
gate generates PIL00 (program interrupt) if SMK11 is set, READY is set, 
and BUSY is clear. It seems strange to have the interrupt logic 
distributed out to the individual IO interfaces, but that's the way the 
H316 worked, apparently.

So with READY and BUSY in the picture, operations are as follows:

OCP '4 - clear READY (and any interrupt), BUSY, and the data buffer; 
clear output mode
         - wait for a character
         - as the character starts to come in, set BUSY
         - when the character is complete, set READY, clear BUSY, and 
request an interrupt if enabled
INA    - read the buffer, clear READY (and any interrupt)

Note that OCP '4 goes into input mode, and clears READY, BUSY, and the 
buffer, even if input mode is already set. Also, SimH doesn't simulate 
the "busy" period on inputs; it probably should.

Output has two flow diagrams, depending on whether the OTA is issued 
before the dummy cycle expires, or after.

OCP '0 - set READY and BUSY (clear interrupt), clear the buffer, start a 
dummy output

Now, if OTA follows during the dummy character time:

OTA - clear READY, set BUSY, clear interrupt, load the buffer, start a 
real output sequence
     - output the character
     - when output completes, set READY, clear BUSY, and request an 
interrupt if enabled

If OTA does not happen soon enough, then at the end of the dummy 
character time:

     - clear BUSY, READY stays set, interrupt happens if enabled

Note that this behavior is NOT what Adrian's simulator does, from what I 
can tell, but the timing diagram shows that READY stays set after BUSY 
clears, and that will generate an interrupt according to the logic diagrams.

So the fixes for the TTY are as follows:

1. Add an explicit BUSY flop, cleared on RESET.
2. Remove the test for output -> input transition on OCP '4. This starts 
an input sequence unconditionally.
3. Modify input service processing to use two states. In the first, BUSY 
gets set. In the second, BUSY is cleared, READY is set, and an interrupt 
is generated if enabled.
4. Modify SKS processing to test the BUSY flop directly, rather than the 
state of the TTY units.
5. Modify OCP '0 to start a dummy sequence by setting READY and BUSY, 
and clearing interrupt request. This too is unconditional.
6. Modify OTA processing to cancel any dummy sequence in process before 
starting output.
7. Modify output service processing to check for dummy sequence (READY 
and BUSY both set). If they are, simply clear BUSY and update interrupt 
status.
8. Check for interactions with the ASR functionality.

And of course...

9. Make sure that interrupt requests always reflect READY & !BUSY equation.

Verifying all this will be interesting.

/Bob Supnik

On 6/19/2013 4:56 AM, simh-request at trailing-edge.com wrote:
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 21:00:16 -0700
> From: "Bob Armstrong"<bob at jfcl.com>
> To:<simh at trailing-edge.com>
> Subject: [Simh] Subtle H316 TTY interrupt bug?
> Message-ID: <00bd01ce6bd8$57945550$06bcfff0$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>    I need an H316 expert to confirm this for me, but I think there's a subtle
> bug in the way simh handles the TTY output mode switch (Yes, the 316 has a
> half duplex console terminal interface!) and interrupts.
>
>   
>
>   
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/series16/h316/70130072176C_
> 316_CPU_Descr_Apr73.pdf
>
>   
>
> is a description of the H316 CPU logic and the very end, around page 2-31
> thru 37, talk about the TTY interface.  In particular, 2-37 describes the
> "dummy cycle" that's inserted when hardware is switched from input to output
> mode, and 2-38 even has a timing diagram to show how it happens.
>
>   
>
>    Consider the two instruction sequence
>
>   
>
>                 OCP       104                       / SELECT TTY OUTPUT MODE
>
>                 OTA       4                            / OUTPUT A CHARACTER
>
>   
>
> Assuming the interrupt system is enabled and that the TTY interface is
> currently idle, simh is written to interrupt immediately after the OCP 104
> and before the OTA.  That means that the code effectively gets an output
> done interrupt before the output is ever started!  Based on the description
> in the above manual, I'm pretty sure this is wrong.  The "dummy cycle"
> inserts a delay between the OCP and the flag setting, and by that time the
> OTA has been executed, the output flag is cleared, and there's never any
> interrupt asserted by the OCP.  No interrupt occurs until the character
> output is actually finished.
>
>   
>
>    So, is there an H316 expert out there that can confirm this theory for me?
>
>   
>
> Thanks
>
> Bob



From jdbryan at acm.org  Wed Jun 19 23:51:03 2013
From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:51:03 -0400
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 ptr device
In-Reply-To: <A07944B9-4748-4F9C-8C93-C105F2D1CB90@quentin.org.uk>
References: <2070758.hMozsa9Jsr@lobster>,
 <E1Up9dU-0002Eo-2D@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>,
 <A07944B9-4748-4F9C-8C93-C105F2D1CB90@quentin.org.uk>
Message-ID: <E1UpVtm-00088w-Jw@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi Quentin,


On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 at 9:52, Quentin North wrote:

> TSB is reporting PR0 on select code 16 which is at same as the assigned
> device on the IOP.

OK.


> the only slight question in my mind about that is that the [MT0 tape]
> device on the main processor is also select code 16 and I wonder if
> that is the issue? 

It shouldn't be, but then I know next to nothing about TSB.

Are you using Mike Gemeny's Access configuration, or did you configure your 
own IOP from the Bitsavers HP collection?  If the former, it might pay to 
ask Mike if he has observed the paper tape reader working.

One generic problem that affects the HP simulator (and probably all other 
simulators) is that the default timing for I/O devices is abnormally fast.  
For example, the PTR device defaults to reading a character every 100 CPU 
instructions.  An HP 1000 E-Series executes about 1580 instructions per 
millisecond, so the PTR device interrupts about every 63 microseconds of 
simulated time, giving an equivalent of 15800 characters per second.  A 
real HP 2748 ran at 500 cps, resulting in an interrupt every two 
milliseconds.

Most software can adapt to the much faster interrupt rate.  However, I have 
seen some drivers that "know" that a certain device will not be ready to 
interrupt until at least "x" microseconds have elapsed and that will fail 
if the rate is significantly faster.

See, for example, this explanation:

  http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/pipermail/simh/2008-February/004603.html

Regrettably, I'm right in the middle of an office move, so I won't have 
time to look into your problem in detail until after July 1.  However, you 
might try:

  deposit PTR TIME 3160

...which would set the 2748 interrupt timing to correspond with the 
hardware.

If that doesn't work, feel free to take this offline, and we'll summarize 
the solution for the list once we establish it.

                                      -- Dave



From bob at jfcl.com  Thu Jun 20 00:01:43 2013
From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:01:43 -0700
Subject: [Simh] Subtle H316 TTY interrupt bug?
In-Reply-To: <51C22D8E.7040108@supnik.org>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <51C22D8E.7040108@supnik.org>
Message-ID: <004f01ce6d6a$e04d8220$a0e88660$@com>

Bob -

  Thanks for checking this out.  Did you actually pull out the H316
schematics and work it out?  I'm impressed - I was too lazy to do that!

  FWIW, I've "fixed" my copy of simh by the simple expedient of using
INT_NODIS to disable interrupts for one instruction after any OCP 4 that
switches to output mode.  (This is the same interrupt flag the ENB
instruction uses to defer interrupts for one instruction.)  It's a fairly
trivial mod to the code - in file stddev.c, routine ttyio(), modify the code
like this -

        if (fnc && (tty_mode == 0)) {                   /* input to output?
*/
            if (!sim_is_active (&tty_unit[TTO])) {      /* set ready */
                SET_INT (0,INT_TTY);
		    // [RLA] Fix the "dummy cycle" problem (see above!)...
		    CLR_INT (0,INT_NODEF);  // [RLA]
	    }
            tty_mode = 1;                               /* mode is output */


Admittedly this is not exactly what the real hardware does, but it's a close
enough approximation to solve the immediate problem and it's easy to
implement.  I don't believe it has any bad side effects.

  FWIW, I'm trying to resurrect some real H316 software that uses exactly
the OCP 104/ OTA 4 sequence described, so it's not entirely an academic
concern.  

  Thanks again for double checking this.

Bob Armstrong



From bob at supnik.org  Thu Jun 20 11:16:41 2013
From: bob at supnik.org (Bob Supnik)
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 11:16:41 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Subtle H316 TTY interrupt bug?
In-Reply-To: <004f01ce6d6a$e04d8220$a0e88660$@com>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <51C22D8E.7040108@supnik.org> <004f01ce6d6a$e04d8220$a0e88660$@com>
Message-ID: <51C31CD9.9010402@supnik.org>

Yes, I got out the schematics. Fortunately the interrupt logic was well 
isolated and relatively easy to read. Because the H16's used 3 input AND 
gates for almost everything, trying to figure out what's going on in 
complex logic is a nightmare. I had to do that to figure out how the 
generic instructions really worked, and I never want to do it again.

Your hack is fine for now, but who knows if there's some other program 
that actually depends on a 2- or 3- or longer instruction window? I find 
it's always best to reproduce the hardware, hack for hack. (See my paper 
on PDP11 interrupts, 
http://simh.trailing-edge.com/docs/pdp11interrupts.pdf.)

/Bob

On 6/20/2013 12:01 AM, Bob Armstrong wrote:
> Bob -
>
>    Thanks for checking this out.  Did you actually pull out the H316
> schematics and work it out?  I'm impressed - I was too lazy to do that!
>
>    FWIW, I've "fixed" my copy of simh by the simple expedient of using
> INT_NODIS to disable interrupts for one instruction after any OCP 4 that
> switches to output mode.  (This is the same interrupt flag the ENB
> instruction uses to defer interrupts for one instruction.)  It's a fairly
> trivial mod to the code - in file stddev.c, routine ttyio(), modify the code
> like this -
>
>          if (fnc && (tty_mode == 0)) {                   /* input to output?
> */
>              if (!sim_is_active (&tty_unit[TTO])) {      /* set ready */
>                  SET_INT (0,INT_TTY);
> 		    // [RLA] Fix the "dummy cycle" problem (see above!)...
> 		    CLR_INT (0,INT_NODEF);  // [RLA]
> 	    }
>              tty_mode = 1;                               /* mode is output */
>
>
> Admittedly this is not exactly what the real hardware does, but it's a close
> enough approximation to solve the immediate problem and it's easy to
> implement.  I don't believe it has any bad side effects.
>
>    FWIW, I'm trying to resurrect some real H316 software that uses exactly
> the OCP 104/ OTA 4 sequence described, so it's not entirely an academic
> concern.
>
>    Thanks again for double checking this.
>
> Bob Armstrong
>
>



From lbickley at bickleywest.com  Fri Jun 21 02:37:45 2013
From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley)
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 23:37:45 -0700
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 - 12821A
In-Reply-To: <51C31CD9.9010402@supnik.org>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <51C22D8E.7040108@supnik.org> <004f01ce6d6a$e04d8220$a0e88660$@com>
 <51C31CD9.9010402@supnik.org>
Message-ID: <20130620233745.515271bb@asrock.bcwi.net>

I've recently upgraded my "real" HP1000 Series F with a 12821A
connected to a CS/80 drive. This configuration is supported by RTE VI,
with the CS/80 drive as the boot device.

Unfortunately, SIMH currently does not support CS/80 drives connected
to a 12821A interface.

1. Has anybody already looked at what it would take to do this?
2, Or already has some alpha/beta code written to do so?

If neither of the above - some cursory thoughts as to how one might
implement this feature...

Thanks!

Cheers,
Lyle
-- 
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com

"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"


From jdbryan at acm.org  Sat Jun 22 01:11:49 2013
From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan)
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 01:11:49 -0400
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 - 12821A
In-Reply-To: <20130620233745.515271bb@asrock.bcwi.net>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>,
 <51C31CD9.9010402@supnik.org>, <20130620233745.515271bb@asrock.bcwi.net>
Message-ID: <E1UqG74-0006Oy-1L@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Lyle,


On Thursday, June 20, 2013 at 23:37, Lyle Bickley wrote:

> Unfortunately, SIMH currently does not support CS/80 drives connected
> to a 12821A interface.
> 
> 1. Has anybody already looked at what it would take to do this?

Yes.  For 3.9-0, I added the 7906H/20H/25H ICD drives interfaced via the 
12821A card.  The intent was to create the framework for subsequently 
adding CS/80 disc and Amigo tape drives via the 12821A interface while 
first leveraging the disc simulation work from the 13037 MAC controller 
discs (hp2100_ds.c).


> 2, Or already has some alpha/beta code written to do so?

No, although there is a future plan to address this.


> If neither of the above - some cursory thoughts as to how one might
> implement this feature...

With an eye toward future HP-IB interfacing, the ICD implementation 
partitioned the simulation into a library of disc functions (hp_disclib.c), 
the generic 12821A interface (hp2100_di.c), and separate "personality" 
modules for the Amigo disc, CS/80 disc, and Amigo tape peripherals (the 
existing hp2100_di_da.c, and the future hp2100_di_dc.c and hp2100_di_ma.c 
files).  Adding a CS/80 disc simulation would be a matter of implementing 
hp2100_di_dc.c and tying it into the disc library and 12821A simulation.

The comments in the files describe the partitioning.  If I may answer any 
additional questions, please do not hesitate to ask.


> Thanks!

You're welcome.

                                      -- Dave



From adrian at adrianwise.co.uk  Sat Jun 22 15:35:15 2013
From: adrian at adrianwise.co.uk (Adrian Wise)
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 20:35:15 +0100
Subject: [Simh] Subtle H316 TTY interrupt bug? (Bob Supnik)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.318.1371877912.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
References: <mailman.318.1371877912.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <51C5FC73.8040706@adrianwise.co.uk>

Interesting question. This spurred me into action to get the ASR 
interface from netlisted schematics to work with the H316 CPU that I've 
had simulating for a while. In the process finding a few more bugs in 
the schematics - both of the ASR interface and the CPU itself.

For the record you can see (an image of) simulation results illustrating 
the point in question here:

http://www.series16.adrianwise.co.uk/hardware/images/ASR_simulation.png

running the code pasted below. (I've wound the baud rate up to 9600, 
since the simulations take a *really* long time at 110 baud.)

(Or download the schematics and run it yourself, if you'd like to dig 
around in a waveform viewer.)

So, I can confirm Bob Supnik's analysis, both in Verilog simulation, and 
also ran it on real hardware (a DDP516).

Also I agree that my simulator, like simh, doesn't properly model the 
Dummy cycle.

 > From: "Bob Armstrong" <bob at jfcl.com>
 > ...
 >    FWIW, I'm trying to resurrect some real H316 software that uses 
exactly
 > the OCP 104/ OTA 4 sequence described, so it's not entirely an academic
 > concern.

It's probably worth pointing out that any program that actually relies 
on this behaviour is itself faulty - it has a race.

The issue, to recap, is if you (with interrupts turned on and masked 
correctly) put the ASR interface into output mode, and then immediately 
write a character to the ASR interface. This is a race, because you're 
gambling on reaching the OTA that outputs a character in the main thread 
before the one in the interrupt service routine.

Most of the time you'll win - but we're working with interrupts turned 
on, and if some other, unrelated, interrupt is serviced (or perhaps even 
a DMA/DMC request is serviced) which places a significant delay between 
the OCP to select output mode and the OTA, you'll lose - and the first 
character output by the ISR (and probably several others too) will be 
output before the one from the main thread.

It's also a really weird thing to want to do. If you've decided to put 
the message you want printing in a buffer and use interrupts to print 
it, why would you want to special-case the first character by sending it 
from the main program?

Test program for code run in simulation:
ABS                                                             PAGE    1



     0001                         ABS
     0002                         ORG   '1000
     0003 01000   34 0104         SKS   '104              READY?
     0004 01001   0 01 01000      JMP   *-1
     0005 01002   14 0004         OCP   '4                START IN INPUT 
MODE
     0006 01003   0 02 01027      LDA   PINT
     0007 01004   0 04 00063      STA   '63               SET UP INTERRUPT
     0008 01005   0 02 01053      LDA   ='000040          BIT 11 SET
     0009 01006   74 0020         SMK   '20               SET MASK
     0010 01007   140040          CRA
     0011 01010   0 04 01030      STA   CNT               CLEAR COUNTER
     0012 01011   000401          ENB                     ENABLE INTERRUPTS
     0013 01012   0 35 01052      LDX   =-200
     0014 01013   0 12 00000      IRS   0                 WAIT A BIT
     0015 01014   0 01 01013      JMP   *-1
     0016 01015   34 0104         SKS   '104              READY?
     0017 01016   0 01 01015      JMP   *-1
     0018 01017   0 35 01052      LDX   =-200
     0019 01020   0 12 00000      IRS   0                 WAIT A BIT
     0020 01021   0 01 01020      JMP   *-1
     0021 01022   0 02 01051      LDA   ='360             'P' - 4 HI 
BITS, 4 LO
     0022 01023   14 0104         OCP   '104              OUTPUT MODE
     0023 01024   74 0004         OTA   '4
     0024 01025   0 01 01024      JMP   *-1
     0025 01026   0 01 01026      JMP   *                 WAIT FOR EVER
     0026                    *
     0027 01027   0 001033   PINT DAC   INTR
     0028 01030   000000     CNT  OCT   0
     0029 01031              SA   BSS   1
     0030 01032              SK   BSS   1
     0031                    *
     0032 01033   0 001033   INTR DAC   *
     0033 01034   0 04 01031      STA   SA
     0034 01035   000043          INK
     0035 01036   0 04 01032      STA   SK
     0036 01037   0 12 01030      IRS   CNT
     0037 01040   0 02 01050      LDA   ='325             'U' - 
ALTERNATE HI/LO BITS
     0038 01041   74 0004         OTA   '4
     0039 01042   0 01 01041      JMP   *-1
     0040 01043   0 02 01032      LDA   SK
     0041 01044   171020          OTK
     0042 01045   0 02 01031      LDA   SA
     0043 01046   000401          ENB
     0044 01047  -0 01 01033      JMP*  INTR
     0045 01050   000325          END
          01051   000360
          01052   177470
          01053   000040



                                 ABS 
                           PAGE    2



     CNT    001030A   INTR   001033A   PINT   001027A   SA     001031A
     SK     001032A
     0000 WARNING OR ERROR FLAGS
     DAP-16 MOD 2    REV. C    01-26-71



From bob at jfcl.com  Sat Jun 22 16:11:14 2013
From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong)
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 13:11:14 -0700
Subject: [Simh] Subtle H316 TTY interrupt bug? (Bob Supnik)
In-Reply-To: <51C5FC73.8040706@adrianwise.co.uk>
References: <mailman.318.1371877912.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <51C5FC73.8040706@adrianwise.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002b01ce6f84$a61b5b60$f2521220$@com>

>Adrian Wise wrote:
>Most of the time you'll win - but we're working with interrupts turned on,
> and if some other, unrelated, interrupt is serviced 

  I wondered about that too.  I agree with you and I'd assume that if
another unrelated interrupt came in you'd be in trouble.  This particular
program only uses TTY interrupts (they're individually maskable with SMK
after all), so it's safe in that regard.

  The H316 manual I referenced specifically points out this special property
of an OCP immediately followed by OTA, so I'd have to assume Honeywell
intended for people to use it.  

Bob



From lbickley at bickleywest.com  Sun Jun 23 14:06:56 2013
From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley)
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 11:06:56 -0700
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 - 12821A
In-Reply-To: <E1UqG74-0006Oy-1L@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <51C31CD9.9010402@supnik.org>
 <20130620233745.515271bb@asrock.bcwi.net>
 <E1UqG74-0006Oy-1L@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20130623110656.08f81ed5@asrock.bcwi.net>

On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 01:11:49 -0400
"J. David Bryan" <jdbryan at acm.org> wrote:

> Lyle,
> 
> 
> On Thursday, June 20, 2013 at 23:37, Lyle Bickley wrote:
> 
> > Unfortunately, SIMH currently does not support CS/80 drives
> > connected to a 12821A interface.
> > 
> > 1. Has anybody already looked at what it would take to do this?
> 
> Yes.  For 3.9-0, I added the 7906H/20H/25H ICD drives interfaced via
> the 12821A card.  The intent was to create the framework for
> subsequently adding CS/80 disc and Amigo tape drives via the 12821A
> interface while first leveraging the disc simulation work from the
> 13037 MAC controller discs (hp2100_ds.c).

Great!

> > 2, Or already has some alpha/beta code written to do so?
> 
> No, although there is a future plan to address this.

Excellent!

> > If neither of the above - some cursory thoughts as to how one might
> > implement this feature...
> 
> With an eye toward future HP-IB interfacing, the ICD implementation 
> partitioned the simulation into a library of disc functions
> (hp_disclib.c), the generic 12821A interface (hp2100_di.c), and
> separate "personality" modules for the Amigo disc, CS/80 disc, and
> Amigo tape peripherals (the existing hp2100_di_da.c, and the future
> hp2100_di_dc.c and hp2100_di_ma.c files).  Adding a CS/80 disc
> simulation would be a matter of implementing hp2100_di_dc.c and tying
> it into the disc library and 12821A simulation.
> 
> The comments in the files describe the partitioning.  If I may answer
> any additional questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

I'll check them out.

Thanks for the fast response!

Cheers,
Lyle

-- 
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com

"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"


From jdbryan at acm.org  Sun Jun 23 18:58:24 2013
From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan)
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 18:58:24 -0400
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 - 12821A
In-Reply-To: <20130623110656.08f81ed5@asrock.bcwi.net>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>,
 <E1UqG74-0006Oy-1L@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>,
 <20130623110656.08f81ed5@asrock.bcwi.net>
Message-ID: <E1UqtEf-0004h1-5A@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Lyle,


On Sunday, June 23, 2013 at 11:06, Lyle Bickley wrote:

> I'll check them out.

A CS/80 implementation would generally follow the same model as the ICD 
implementation in hp2100_di_da.c.  That is, the module would interpret the 
HP-IB secondaries as received from the 12821A interface as CS/80 commands, 
pick up the associated parameter data bytes, and then call the appropriate 
HP disc library routines (e.g., seek, read, write, etc.) to execute the 
commands.  The ICD module does this for the Amigo command set; I would 
expect the CS/80 version to contain about 70% of the same code, with the 
rest handling the differences between the Amigo and CS/80 command sets.


> Thanks for the fast response!

You're welcome.

                                      -- Dave



From lbickley at bickleywest.com  Sun Jun 23 20:33:11 2013
From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley)
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 17:33:11 -0700
Subject: [Simh] HP2100 - 12821A
In-Reply-To: <E1UqtEf-0004h1-5A@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.316.1371632204.1077.simh@trailing-edge.com>
 <E1UqG74-0006Oy-1L@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20130623110656.08f81ed5@asrock.bcwi.net>
 <E1UqtEf-0004h1-5A@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20130623173311.40dd9af2@asrock.bcwi.net>

Dave, et al,

On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 18:58:24 -0400
"J. David Bryan" <jdbryan at acm.org> wrote:

> Lyle,
> 
> 
> On Sunday, June 23, 2013 at 11:06, Lyle Bickley wrote:
> 
> > I'll check them out.
> 
> A CS/80 implementation would generally follow the same model as the
> ICD implementation in hp2100_di_da.c.  That is, the module would
> interpret the HP-IB secondaries as received from the 12821A interface
> as CS/80 commands, pick up the associated parameter data bytes, and
> then call the appropriate HP disc library routines (e.g., seek, read,
> write, etc.) to execute the commands.  The ICD module does this for
> the Amigo command set; I would expect the CS/80 version to contain
> about 70% of the same code, with the rest handling the differences
> between the Amigo and CS/80 command sets.

I read through the listings today - and I like the way you
modularized and segregated the 12821A interface code and the Amigo
command set. I can see how implementing the CS/80 version will be
relatively easy and and how you'll be able to re-use 70% of the same
code.

Kudos for excellent structure and implementation 8)

> > Thanks for the fast response!
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
>                                       -- Dave

Cheers,
Lyle

-- 
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com

"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"


From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com  Wed Jun 26 11:01:04 2013
From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 11:01:04 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Physical serial ports and SIMH
Message-ID: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!
Right now I am tooling up to try out an idea or two concerning the
PDP-11 emulation. This is to be run on a Raspberry Pi running the
latest release of their Raspberry specific Debian release. (Also fully
updated and upgraded.)

The device has the two USB connections ostensibly for a keyboard and
mouse, but one gentleman I know managed to make use of the serial port
function on one of them, and attached a USB to serial adapter to one
of the connections. So obviously I can connect two adapters to the two
ports there.

But what about the serial port embedded on the GPIO connectors? Can I
make use of that one?

I know normally that SIMH emulates a chosen computer and only fairly
recently with some of them do communicate with the outside world via
Ethernet, but for what I'm planning and working on, it seems to be a
good fit. Should it work I might be able to upscale the working
programs to Mr Wilson's product running on an X86 board instead, or
even an actual PDP-11 model.....
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."


From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com  Wed Jun 26 12:23:16 2013
From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 12:23:16 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Physical serial ports and SIMH
In-Reply-To: <33AE83B4-35B9-4552-93CE-A09D4F532429@jordi.guillaumes.name>
References: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <33AE83B4-35B9-4552-93CE-A09D4F532429@jordi.guillaumes.name>
Message-ID: <CAC5iaNFmCM6+AFLvDjRne-54Xv5dsoBbeYiyEMGqCajCwe94JA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
<jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
>
> El 26/06/2013, a les 17:01, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> va escriure:
>
>> But what about the serial port embedded on the GPIO connectors? Can I
>> make use of that one?
>
> The development version of simh can use the physical serial ports of the host computer and attach them to emulated serial lines (DZ11 or VH devices).
>
>
> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
> jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
> HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
>
>
>
>

Hello!
That's what I thought.

Interesting,the Gmail mailer wants to know did I mean the address for
the list concerning the hobbyist network versus the one for discussing
SIMH partly because of the responder......

-- 
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."


From brian at quarterbyte.com  Wed Jun 26 13:17:47 2013
From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 10:17:47 -0700
Subject: [Simh] Physical serial ports and SIMH
In-Reply-To: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51CB223B.462.18B6E175@brian.quarterbyte.com>

Hi Gregg,

This is an interest of mine too, for some personal and some work 
projects.

The RPi usees 3.3V logic, so you have to use a level-shifting chip to 
use the hardware UARTs with RS-232 or RS-4xx. I've had an RS-232/RPi 
interface sitting on the dining room table half put-together for the 
last 2 months, so I can't tell you yet how well it works.

Re: the USB to RS-232 interface options (most of which, AFAIK, use the 
FTDI chip built into a cable), I have read online accounts of 
instability in the Raspbian drivers -- the interfaces work for a few 
minutes or hours, and then stop working. If true, that makes them 
functionally worthless.

I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has had this experience, or 
has found a USB/RS-232 cable/driver combo that has proven to be stable 
on the RPi.

Brian


On 26 Jun 2013 at 11:01, Gregg Levine wrote:

Hello!
Right now I am tooling up to try out an idea or two concerning the
PDP-11 emulation. This is to be run on a Raspberry Pi running the
latest release of their Raspberry specific Debian release. (Also fully
updated and upgraded.)

The device has the two USB connections ostensibly for a keyboard and
mouse, but one gentleman I know managed to make use of the serial port
function on one of them, and attached a USB to serial adapter to one
of the connections. So obviously I can connect two adapters to the two
ports there.

But what about the serial port embedded on the GPIO connectors? Can I
make use of that one?

I know normally that SIMH emulates a chosen computer and only fairly
recently with some of them do communicate with the outside world via
Ethernet, but for what I'm planning and working on, it seems to be a
good fit. Should it work I might be able to upscale the working
programs to Mr Wilson's product running on an X86 board instead, or
even an actual PDP-11 model.....
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
_______________________________________________
Simh mailing list
Simh at trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
_| _| _|  Brian Knittel
_| _| _|  Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
_| _| _|  Tel: 1-510-559-7930
_| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com



From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com  Wed Jun 26 15:41:35 2013
From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 15:41:35 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Physical serial ports and SIMH
In-Reply-To: <51CB223B.462.18B6E175@brian.quarterbyte.com>
References: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <51CB223B.462.18B6E175@brian.quarterbyte.com>
Message-ID: <CAC5iaNGNAoKjWkLCqo1U1eHhtZ_TGPn_oBsa33g=X-GNQBh2Pw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Brian Knittel <brian at quarterbyte.com> wrote:
> Hi Gregg,
>
> This is an interest of mine too, for some personal and some work
> projects.
>
> The RPi usees 3.3V logic, so you have to use a level-shifting chip to
> use the hardware UARTs with RS-232 or RS-4xx. I've had an RS-232/RPi
> interface sitting on the dining room table half put-together for the
> last 2 months, so I can't tell you yet how well it works.
>
> Re: the USB to RS-232 interface options (most of which, AFAIK, use the
> FTDI chip built into a cable), I have read online accounts of
> instability in the Raspbian drivers -- the interfaces work for a few
> minutes or hours, and then stop working. If true, that makes them
> functionally worthless.
>
> I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has had this experience, or
> has found a USB/RS-232 cable/driver combo that has proven to be stable
> on the RPi.
>
> Brian
>
>
> On 26 Jun 2013 at 11:01, Gregg Levine wrote:
>
> Hello!
> Right now I am tooling up to try out an idea or two concerning the
> PDP-11 emulation. This is to be run on a Raspberry Pi running the
> latest release of their Raspberry specific Debian release. (Also fully
> updated and upgraded.)
>
> The device has the two USB connections ostensibly for a keyboard and
> mouse, but one gentleman I know managed to make use of the serial port
> function on one of them, and attached a USB to serial adapter to one
> of the connections. So obviously I can connect two adapters to the two
> ports there.
>
> But what about the serial port embedded on the GPIO connectors? Can I
> make use of that one?
>
> I know normally that SIMH emulates a chosen computer and only fairly
> recently with some of them do communicate with the outside world via
> Ethernet, but for what I'm planning and working on, it seems to be a
> good fit. Should it work I might be able to upscale the working
> programs to Mr Wilson's product running on an X86 board instead, or
> even an actual PDP-11 model.....
> -----
> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> _| _| _|  Brian Knittel
> _| _| _|  Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
> _| _| _|  Tel: 1-510-559-7930
> _| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com

Hello!
Interesting point. As it happens FTDI makes a module that adds things
to the based Raspberry Pi, here:
http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Modules/RPi.htm they basically there
explain everything imaginable for the module itself. I suspect based
on what you've stated there's still some unstability in the drivers
that the modules are creating, and, ah, its supposed to be fixed using
the library they describe on an app note, and of course its available
for all forms of Linux.

-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."


From jg at jordi.guillaumes.name  Wed Jun 26 17:28:14 2013
From: jg at jordi.guillaumes.name (Jordi Guillaumes i Pons)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 23:28:14 +0200
Subject: [Simh] Physical serial ports and SIMH
In-Reply-To: <CAC5iaNGNAoKjWkLCqo1U1eHhtZ_TGPn_oBsa33g=X-GNQBh2Pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <51CB223B.462.18B6E175@brian.quarterbyte.com>
 <CAC5iaNGNAoKjWkLCqo1U1eHhtZ_TGPn_oBsa33g=X-GNQBh2Pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8C240EFB-3A81-4253-A45D-E57091882A2C@jordi.guillaumes.name>

Perhaps you will want to consider one alternative to the Raspberry Pi: 

http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black

I have got one. It is noticeabily faster than the pi (it clocks at 1GHz and uses a faster memory) and it does not need a SD card to boot (it has 2GB of on-board flash). I run debian wheezy in mine, and of course simh compiles without any problem once you have installed the dependencies. It comes with 5 UARTs and you can get a "cape" which gets you a standard RS232 port thru a D9 connector:

http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeagleBone_RS232

(I am not sure if you can stack several capes to use the other UARTs).




El 26/06/2013, a les 21:41, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> va escriure:

> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Brian Knittel <brian at quarterbyte.com> wrote:
>> Hi Gregg,
>> 
>> This is an interest of mine too, for some personal and some work
>> projects.
>> 
>> The RPi usees 3.3V logic, so you have to use a level-shifting chip to
>> use the hardware UARTs with RS-232 or RS-4xx. I've had an RS-232/RPi
>> interface sitting on the dining room table half put-together for the
>> last 2 months, so I can't tell you yet how well it works.
>> 
>> Re: the USB to RS-232 interface options (most of which, AFAIK, use the
>> FTDI chip built into a cable), I have read online accounts of
>> instability in the Raspbian drivers -- the interfaces work for a few
>> minutes or hours, and then stop working. If true, that makes them
>> functionally worthless.
>> 
>> I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has had this experience, or
>> has found a USB/RS-232 cable/driver combo that has proven to be stable
>> on the RPi.
>> 
>> Brian
>> 
>> 
>> On 26 Jun 2013 at 11:01, Gregg Levine wrote:
>> 
>> Hello!
>> Right now I am tooling up to try out an idea or two concerning the
>> PDP-11 emulation. This is to be run on a Raspberry Pi running the
>> latest release of their Raspberry specific Debian release. (Also fully
>> updated and upgraded.)
>> 
>> The device has the two USB connections ostensibly for a keyboard and
>> mouse, but one gentleman I know managed to make use of the serial port
>> function on one of them, and attached a USB to serial adapter to one
>> of the connections. So obviously I can connect two adapters to the two
>> ports there.
>> 
>> But what about the serial port embedded on the GPIO connectors? Can I
>> make use of that one?
>> 
>> I know normally that SIMH emulates a chosen computer and only fairly
>> recently with some of them do communicate with the outside world via
>> Ethernet, but for what I'm planning and working on, it seems to be a
>> good fit. Should it work I might be able to upscale the working
>> programs to Mr Wilson's product running on an X86 board instead, or
>> even an actual PDP-11 model.....
>> -----
>> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
>> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>> _| _| _|  Brian Knittel
>> _| _| _|  Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
>> _| _| _|  Tel: 1-510-559-7930
>> _| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com
> 
> Hello!
> Interesting point. As it happens FTDI makes a module that adds things
> to the based Raspberry Pi, here:
> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Modules/RPi.htm they basically there
> explain everything imaginable for the module itself. I suspect based
> on what you've stated there's still some unstability in the drivers
> that the modules are creating, and, ah, its supposed to be fixed using
> the library they describe on an app note, and of course its available
> for all forms of Linux.
> 
> -----
> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES






From j_hoppe at t-online.de  Thu Jun 27 11:24:47 2013
From: j_hoppe at t-online.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Hoppe?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 17:24:47 +0200
Subject: [Simh] Physical serial ports and SIMH
In-Reply-To: <8C240EFB-3A81-4253-A45D-E57091882A2C@jordi.guillaumes.name>
References: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <51CB223B.462.18B6E175@brian.quarterbyte.com>
 <CAC5iaNGNAoKjWkLCqo1U1eHhtZ_TGPn_oBsa33g=X-GNQBh2Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <8C240EFB-3A81-4253-A45D-E57091882A2C@jordi.guillaumes.name>
Message-ID: <51CC593F.3020107@t-online.de>

Hi,

just to ring the bell:
For the "DECbox", we made an 4x RS232 cape for the BeagleBone.
(www.blinkenbone.com/projects/decbox/160-decbox-about-the-beaglebone)
A friend made an online shop for it: see shop.hachti.de

regards
Joerg

Am 26.06.2013 23:28, schrieb Jordi Guillaumes i Pons:
> Perhaps you will want to consider one alternative to the Raspberry Pi:
>
> http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black
>
> I have got one. It is noticeabily faster than the pi (it clocks at 1GHz and uses a faster memory) and it does not need a SD card to boot (it has 2GB of on-board flash). I run debian wheezy in mine, and of course simh compiles without any problem once you have installed the dependencies. It comes with 5 UARTs and you can get a "cape" which gets you a standard RS232 port thru a D9 connector:
>
> http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeagleBone_RS232
>
> (I am not sure if you can stack several capes to use the other UARTs).
>
>
>
>
> El 26/06/2013, a les 21:41, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> va escriure:
>
>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Brian Knittel <brian at quarterbyte.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Gregg,
>>>
>>> This is an interest of mine too, for some personal and some work
>>> projects.
>>>
>>> The RPi usees 3.3V logic, so you have to use a level-shifting chip to
>>> use the hardware UARTs with RS-232 or RS-4xx. I've had an RS-232/RPi
>>> interface sitting on the dining room table half put-together for the
>>> last 2 months, so I can't tell you yet how well it works.
>>>
>>> Re: the USB to RS-232 interface options (most of which, AFAIK, use the
>>> FTDI chip built into a cable), I have read online accounts of
>>> instability in the Raspbian drivers -- the interfaces work for a few
>>> minutes or hours, and then stop working. If true, that makes them
>>> functionally worthless.
>>>
>>> I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has had this experience, or
>>> has found a USB/RS-232 cable/driver combo that has proven to be stable
>>> on the RPi.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>> On 26 Jun 2013 at 11:01, Gregg Levine wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello!
>>> Right now I am tooling up to try out an idea or two concerning the
>>> PDP-11 emulation. This is to be run on a Raspberry Pi running the
>>> latest release of their Raspberry specific Debian release. (Also fully
>>> updated and upgraded.)
>>>
>>> The device has the two USB connections ostensibly for a keyboard and
>>> mouse, but one gentleman I know managed to make use of the serial port
>>> function on one of them, and attached a USB to serial adapter to one
>>> of the connections. So obviously I can connect two adapters to the two
>>> ports there.
>>>
>>> But what about the serial port embedded on the GPIO connectors? Can I
>>> make use of that one?
>>>
>>> I know normally that SIMH emulates a chosen computer and only fairly
>>> recently with some of them do communicate with the outside world via
>>> Ethernet, but for what I'm planning and working on, it seems to be a
>>> good fit. Should it work I might be able to upscale the working
>>> programs to Mr Wilson's product running on an X86 board instead, or
>>> even an actual PDP-11 model.....
>>> -----
>>> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
>>> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>>> _| _| _|  Brian Knittel
>>> _| _| _|  Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
>>> _| _| _|  Tel: 1-510-559-7930
>>> _| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com
>>
>> Hello!
>> Interesting point. As it happens FTDI makes a module that adds things
>> to the based Raspberry Pi, here:
>> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Modules/RPi.htm they basically there
>> explain everything imaginable for the module itself. I suspect based
>> on what you've stated there's still some unstability in the drivers
>> that the modules are creating, and, ah, its supposed to be fixed using
>> the library they describe on an app note, and of course its available
>> for all forms of Linux.
>>
>> -----
>> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
>> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
>> _______________________________________________
>> Simh mailing list
>> Simh at trailing-edge.com
>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
> jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
> HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
>


From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 27 11:40:06 2013
From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 11:40:06 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Physical serial ports and SIMH
In-Reply-To: <51CC593F.3020107@t-online.de>
References: <CAC5iaNFYZceOEpXW=Fud7BZ4VXy-qY+ZFOzhATPa-ah+6h_XwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <51CB223B.462.18B6E175@brian.quarterbyte.com>
 <CAC5iaNGNAoKjWkLCqo1U1eHhtZ_TGPn_oBsa33g=X-GNQBh2Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <8C240EFB-3A81-4253-A45D-E57091882A2C@jordi.guillaumes.name>
 <51CC593F.3020107@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <CAC5iaNFfncpCSWYwZzmf4h1Dqjp62WpnAJyvu1EaEpr_WNEcqg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Jörg Hoppe <j_hoppe at t-online.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> just to ring the bell:
> For the "DECbox", we made an 4x RS232 cape for the BeagleBone.
> (www.blinkenbone.com/projects/decbox/160-decbox-about-the-beaglebone)
> A friend made an online shop for it: see shop.hachti.de
>
> regards
> Joerg
>
> Am 26.06.2013 23:28, schrieb Jordi Guillaumes i Pons:
>
>> Perhaps you will want to consider one alternative to the Raspberry Pi:
>>
>> http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black
>>
>> I have got one. It is noticeabily faster than the pi (it clocks at 1GHz
>> and uses a faster memory) and it does not need a SD card to boot (it has 2GB
>> of on-board flash). I run debian wheezy in mine, and of course simh compiles
>> without any problem once you have installed the dependencies. It comes with
>> 5 UARTs and you can get a "cape" which gets you a standard RS232 port thru a
>> D9 connector:
>>
>> http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeagleBone_RS232
>>
>> (I am not sure if you can stack several capes to use the other UARTs).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El 26/06/2013, a les 21:41, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> va
>> escriure:
>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Brian Knittel <brian at quarterbyte.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Gregg,
>>>>
>>>> This is an interest of mine too, for some personal and some work
>>>> projects.
>>>>
>>>> The RPi usees 3.3V logic, so you have to use a level-shifting chip to
>>>> use the hardware UARTs with RS-232 or RS-4xx. I've had an RS-232/RPi
>>>> interface sitting on the dining room table half put-together for the
>>>> last 2 months, so I can't tell you yet how well it works.
>>>>
>>>> Re: the USB to RS-232 interface options (most of which, AFAIK, use the
>>>> FTDI chip built into a cable), I have read online accounts of
>>>> instability in the Raspbian drivers -- the interfaces work for a few
>>>> minutes or hours, and then stop working. If true, that makes them
>>>> functionally worthless.
>>>>
>>>> I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has had this experience, or
>>>> has found a USB/RS-232 cable/driver combo that has proven to be stable
>>>> on the RPi.
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 26 Jun 2013 at 11:01, Gregg Levine wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello!
>>>> Right now I am tooling up to try out an idea or two concerning the
>>>> PDP-11 emulation. This is to be run on a Raspberry Pi running the
>>>> latest release of their Raspberry specific Debian release. (Also fully
>>>> updated and upgraded.)
>>>>
>>>> The device has the two USB connections ostensibly for a keyboard and
>>>> mouse, but one gentleman I know managed to make use of the serial port
>>>> function on one of them, and attached a USB to serial adapter to one
>>>> of the connections. So obviously I can connect two adapters to the two
>>>> ports there.
>>>>
>>>> But what about the serial port embedded on the GPIO connectors? Can I
>>>> make use of that one?
>>>>
>>>> I know normally that SIMH emulates a chosen computer and only fairly
>>>> recently with some of them do communicate with the outside world via
>>>> Ethernet, but for what I'm planning and working on, it seems to be a
>>>> good fit. Should it work I might be able to upscale the working
>>>> programs to Mr Wilson's product running on an X86 board instead, or
>>>> even an actual PDP-11 model.....
>>>> -----
>>>> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
>>>> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
>>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>>>> _| _| _|  Brian Knittel
>>>> _| _| _|  Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
>>>> _| _| _|  Tel: 1-510-559-7930
>>>> _| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello!
>>> Interesting point. As it happens FTDI makes a module that adds things
>>> to the based Raspberry Pi, here:
>>> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Modules/RPi.htm they basically there
>>> explain everything imaginable for the module itself. I suspect based
>>> on what you've stated there's still some unstability in the drivers
>>> that the modules are creating, and, ah, its supposed to be fixed using
>>> the library they describe on an app note, and of course its available
>>> for all forms of Linux.
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
>>> "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Simh mailing list
>>> Simh at trailing-edge.com
>>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>>
>>
>> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
>> jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
>> HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Hello!
Of course. Back when your ideas first surfaced, I had thought of
getting a "Snoopy" board, (Snoopy is the dog from Peanuts and is a
Beagle) but put that idea aside as I hadn't even figured out what I
wanted to do with the whole business. For right now I'm not even
close. But the logic involved in a partial breakdown of the ideas,
which are focusing on output are being tested now.

Its the PDP-11 programming that is threatening to dislodge me, I
suspect it might be partially beyond me.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."


From litt at ieee.org  Fri Jun 28 07:29:08 2013
From: litt at ieee.org (Timothe Litt)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 07:29:08 -0400
Subject: [Simh] CP10 Image?
Message-ID: <51CD7384.7030108@ieee.org>

Does anyone have a good picture (or an accurate written description) of 
the CP10 card punch indicators and switches?

The 1971 PDP-10 handbook has a picture and description, but the image is 
not good enough to identify the
legends on each switch/indicator.  The description is somewhat 
ambiguous, and leaves a certain amount to
the imagination.  (Rather, it assumes you can walk up to and touch one.)

Does anyone remember who the OEM(s) was/were?  (There were three models: 
CP10-A 200 CPM,  CP10-D 100 CPM, and a version of the 200 CPM with 
double the hopper capacity and dual output stackers.)

Thanks.

-- 
This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.
	


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From michael.mondy at coffeebird.net  Fri Jun 28 13:46:16 2013
From: michael.mondy at coffeebird.net (Michael Mondy)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 12:46:16 -0500
Subject: [Simh] Cray X-MP simulator and OS image
Message-ID: <20130628174616.GA30637@coffeebird.net>

In case anyone missed this elsewhere.

An interesting story of a guy who wrote a simulator for the Cray X-MP.  (I don't think he used SIMH though).  It includes efforts that he and others performed to read a disk platter without a working drive and then perform signal analysis of the results.

Links:

http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/06/26/1536233/cray-x-mp-simulator-resurrects-piece-of-com
puter-history

http://www.chrisfenton.com/cray-1-digital-archeology/

http://modularcircuits.tantosonline.com/blog/articles/the-cray-files/


-- Mike


From aek at bitsavers.org  Fri Jun 28 14:16:05 2013
From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 11:16:05 -0700
Subject: [Simh] Cray X-MP simulator and OS image
In-Reply-To: <20130628174616.GA30637@coffeebird.net>
References: <20130628174616.GA30637@coffeebird.net>
Message-ID: <51CDD2E5.8090104@bitsavers.org>

On 6/28/13 10:46 AM, Michael Mondy wrote:

> It includes efforts that he and others performed to read a disk platter without a working drive

no, he borrowed a CDC 9762 drive and used the read amps in it
what wasn't known was the track format.







From michael.mondy at coffeebird.net  Fri Jun 28 16:04:50 2013
From: michael.mondy at coffeebird.net (Michael Mondy)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 15:04:50 -0500
Subject: [Simh] Cray X-MP simulator and OS image
In-Reply-To: <51CDD2E5.8090104@bitsavers.org>
References: <20130628174616.GA30637@coffeebird.net>
 <51CDD2E5.8090104@bitsavers.org>
Message-ID: <20130628200450.GA31788@coffeebird.net>

On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 11:16:05AM -0700, Al Kossow wrote:
> On 6/28/13 10:46 AM, Michael Mondy wrote:
> 
> >It includes efforts that he and others performed to read a disk platter without a working drive
> 
> no, he borrowed a CDC 9762 drive and used the read amps in it
> what wasn't known was the track format.

Agreed.

I didn't mean to imply he didn't use a drive; just that unusual efforts were used.  The drive wasn't really working in the way it was designed to be used.  He used the head, but he didn't use the drive's positioning mechanisms.  From his web page:

-- Quote
I built a robot that would manually move the head forward 1/5200th of an inch at a time (there are 400 data tracks per inch, so this gives me a whopping 13 steps per data track!), while a high-speed analog-to-digital converter would take the analog signal straight from the drive's read amplifier and buffer it into an FPGA at a blistering 80 million samples-per-second (like I said earlier, the theme here was overkill... the data was only changing at ~10 MHz or so). 
[snipped]
Remarkably enough, this scheme actually worked pretty well. It took about three or four hours, but I was able to image the entire disk pack. Of course, that left me with a 35 gigabyte magnetic image of the disk.
-- End quote

I imagine similar efforts have been done by others, but this is an interesting writeup.

-- Mike



From Villy.Madsen at Shaw.ca  Sat Jun 29 20:51:51 2013
From: Villy.Madsen at Shaw.ca (Villy Madsen)
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 18:51:51 -0600
Subject: [Simh] Latest binary of VAX
Message-ID: <51CF8127.6030405@Shaw.ca>

would someone please send me a compiler/linked copy of the latest 
version (3.9 ??) of the vax emulator with Ethernet support.

Please and thank you...

During my migration to w7 I lost the executable and am having no end of 
trouble trying to get a compiler up and running.

Please and thankyou

Villy



From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 29 21:03:00 2013
From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine)
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 21:03:00 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Latest binary of VAX
In-Reply-To: <51CF8127.6030405@Shaw.ca>
References: <51CF8127.6030405@Shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <CAC5iaNEbWuOvaT4R0vWM-AV-UFrcxC7SO25xaYrcDY8j_1hu+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 8:51 PM, Villy Madsen <Villy.Madsen at shaw.ca> wrote:
> would someone please send me a compiler/linked copy of the latest version
> (3.9 ??) of the vax emulator with Ethernet support.
>
> Please and thank you...
>
> During my migration to w7 I lost the executable and am having no end of
> trouble trying to get a compiler up and running.
>
> Please and thankyou
>
> Villy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Hello!
Aren't they available on the SIMH site?

Oh and within the (sadly) last printed copy of EDN, the back page
contains one you submitted concerning your problems with the local
telco.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."


From ahling at eadc.se  Sun Jun 30 05:55:55 2013
From: ahling at eadc.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_=C5hling?=)
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 11:55:55 +0200
Subject: [Simh] Latest binary of VAX
In-Reply-To: <51CF8127.6030405@Shaw.ca>
References: <51CF8127.6030405@Shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <51D000AB.8060306@eadc.se>

Rebuilding wasn't to obvious...

I installed mingw "plain vanilla" + C++  (don't know if that i needed, 
but it doesn't hurt...)

I installed winpcap...

I compiled using the .bat-file with ethernet support

All went fine until "pdp11"...  which gave:
     sim_ether.c:801:18: fatal error: pcap.h: No such file or direcoty
     Compilation terminated
     Mingw32-make: *** [BIN/pdp11.exe] Error 1

Some fiddling, including reading 0readme... at both the package root and 
in the windows-build directory, gave:

The .bat file requires a certain directory structure:

...\SIMH\simhv39-0\...

below this there are common files and one directory for each cpu. Fine.
below this there is also one directory "windows-build". THIS ONE SHALL 
BE MOVED ONE LEVEL UP!
Key problem: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This one shall also be populated with the directed packages (pthreads, 
winpcap developers package)

after that: you should have:

...\SIMH\simhv39-0/...
...\SIMH\windows-build\pthreads
...\SIMH\windows-build\Winpcap
...\SIMH\windows-build\Winpcap\WpdPack\...

This WpdPack is just as unpacked from the Winpcap developers package.

This made "It" for me!

Happy simulating!

Göran


On 2013-06-30 02:51, Villy Madsen wrote:
> would someone please send me a compiler/linked copy of the latest 
> version (3.9 ??) of the vax emulator with Ethernet support.
>
> Please and thank you...
>
> During my migration to w7 I lost the executable and am having no end 
> of trouble trying to get a compiler up and running.
>
> Please and thankyou
>
> Villy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simh mailing list
> Simh at trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh



From ahling at eadc.se  Sun Jun 30 07:09:35 2013
From: ahling at eadc.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_=C5hling?=)
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 13:09:35 +0200
Subject: [Simh] ATTACH DLI <port>
In-Reply-To: <CAC5iaNEbWuOvaT4R0vWM-AV-UFrcxC7SO25xaYrcDY8j_1hu+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51CF8127.6030405@Shaw.ca>
 <CAC5iaNEbWuOvaT4R0vWM-AV-UFrcxC7SO25xaYrcDY8j_1hu+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51D011EF.2020604@eadc.se>

What's the obvious snag with doccumentation when it says

(for DL-lines like the 7 built-in on an PDP 11/93 cpu - DLV22 also called)

Doccumentation says: use:
ATTACH DLI <port>

Reality (3.9 version...) requires   ATTACH DLI0 3001     (for example)
note: the Zero after DLI unit specification


Doccumentation speaks of DLI modes like UC/7P/7B/8B

Reality (3.9 version...) requires SET DLO 8B

note: DL-Out, when doccumentation has this under the Input section, and  
a table how it reflects both input and output...

All best,

Göran


From toby at telegraphics.com.au  Sun Jun 30 12:09:14 2013
From: toby at telegraphics.com.au (Toby Thain)
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 12:09:14 -0400
Subject: [Simh] Latest binary of VAX
In-Reply-To: <51D000AB.8060306@eadc.se>
References: <51CF8127.6030405@Shaw.ca> <51D000AB.8060306@eadc.se>
Message-ID: <51D0582A.2080404@telegraphics.com.au>

On 30/06/13 5:55 AM, Göran Åhling wrote:
> Rebuilding wasn't to obvious...
>

I did this too. Here is a howto if anyone wants one (though the bundled 
instructions are good enough).

   https://gist.github.com/3885865

I also have Windows binaries of 3.9 with networking, if needed.

--Toby



From j_hoppe at t-online.de  Mon Jun 10 01:56:12 2013
From: j_hoppe at t-online.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Hoppe?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 05:56:12 -0000
Subject: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight
 panels
In-Reply-To: <51B55D78.40808@t-online.de>
References: <51B55D78.40808@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <51B56A71.7070600@t-online.de>

Hi Mark,

Sorry for answering late.

I'll look into the SimH beta this week and check out the remote console.

I'm just now in progress of making a PDP-10 KI10 console simulation for
BlinkenBone/SimH, see attachements.
- At the moment there's still much photoshopping.
- Next is the Java application driving the panel pictures.
- Last I'll code a REALCONS interface for PDP-10. This would be the 
right time to integrate REALCONS into the beta.

best regards,
Joerg

Btw:  mark at infocomm was unreachable, so I mailed into the Simh list.


Am 01.06.2013 20:39, schrieb Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm:
> On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 at 5:36 AM, Mark Pizzolato wrote:
>> On Monday, April 15, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Jörg Hoppe wrote:
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> http://retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/180-blinkenbone-as-
>> approach-
>>> for-simh-device-visualisation
>>> is updated and quite stable now.
>>> If you only know the early version, you may want to look at it again.
>>>
>>> kind regards,
>>> Joerg
>>
>> Hi Joerg,
>>
>> This is definitely really good stuff and well thought out, as you say 'possibly
>> over engineered', but I like that.
>>
>> I'm not ready to merge this functionality into the codebase at this time, but I
>> want to come back to it in a few months.
>>
>> I wanted to see what you had done so I could keep it in mind as implement a
>> very simple 'extra' command interface to the current codebase to support
>> the basic user requests which have come along.
>>
>> I'll get back to you when I'm ready to move.  Feel free to probe me from time
>> to time.
>
> Hi Joerg,
>
> You may want to take a look at the current simh codebase and think about the idea of hooking into the remote console capability to implement the functionality you've previously implemented.  The remote console capabilities are a permanent part of the codebase and work on all supported simh host platforms without any external dependencies or complexities.
>
> A shim layer could be implemented to interface your REALCONS semantics to a Remote Console session.
>
> Please let me know what you think.
>
> Thanks.
>
> - Mark
>
>
>



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