[Simh] A new version...

[Toby Thain]

On 20-Sep-08, at 3:42 PM, Terry Newton wrote:

> --- On Sat, 9/20/08, Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de> wrote:
>> downtime? The latest version is
>> http://hachti.de/simh/readline-hack-08092001.zip
>
> Found it after my post.
>
> If v3.81 make for Windows is used I get the following
> error message...
>
> Command>build_mingw
>
> ! was unexpected at this time.
>
> mingw32-make: *** [NOVA/nova_sys.o] Error 255
>
>
> This occurs with both the first /sihm/Makefile you posted
> and also with the makefile from ..08092001.zip (slightly
> edited to take out the readline support, not testing that
> yet), and exactly the same error occurs whether run in
> a real install of XP Home using mingw-make.exe or running
> in my virtual install with a totally different build
> of v3.81 make.exe (not from the mingw project).
>
> So basically v3.80 make gives a "virtual memory exausted"
> error, and v3.81 gives a "! was unexpected" error,
> regardless of whether I'm running virtually or not and
> regardless of which build of make is used. At least
> based on a limited sample size I've tried, but I think
> I see a pattern... complex stuff breaks under Windows.

What's complex about it? This seems all very straightforward...

>
> Of course it could simply be a bug...
>
>> It is available. And will stay available. I'm open for
>> suggestions, too.
>
> Cool. One option is to simply don't try to make it work
> under Windows, that operating system is targeted towards
> more normal uses, and is often not approprate for complex
> development tasks unless certain precautions are taken,
> such as using simple makefiles.

This is just superstition. When running Cygwin or MinGW, it's an  
emulation environment that should really be able to do what you're  
asking it to do (memory notwithstanding). GNU make on MinGW is  
*exactly* the same program. If there's a bug here, we can do more to  
locate it, instead of giving up and saying 'this is never going to  
work under Windows'.

I am happy to help find the problem here, since I can hold my nose  
and boot WinXP, and/or set up VirtualBox.

> There are inherent limits
> on string sizes etc in Windows that don't apply to Linux.


Why do you think such things, if true, are affecting THIS Makefile?  
More investigation of the problem is required.

> ...
>
>> My problem is that I don't have those exotic systems
>> SIMH could be built
>> on. I have only my Linux - and small minicomputers like
>> PDP8 etc.
>
> So long as it's not made the default for everyone, ...

Why not? Every other project under the sun is expected to build with  
a GNU Makefile. It will work on all major systems and *should work*  
under Cygwin and MinGW as well. I do not yet accept your hypothesis  
that it can't work there.

The old Makefile will be retained anyway.

Unlike Philipp's, which is intended to work everywhere GNU make is  
available, the 'old' Makefile is not claimed to work -anywhere- in  
particular,  but 'happens' to work for you. For example, it's not  
claimed to be written for any particular subset of make features. And  
as somebody who is experienced in writing Makefiles, I can say that  
it is harder to write a portable makefile for a 'lowest common  
denominator'. The result will be more verbose and more fragile. You  
might get it working for, e.g. BSD or Solaris make, but then what  
about NMAKE? etc, etc.

To make such an attempt, the targets should be defined; for example,  
"must work with the bundled non-GNU make on FreeBSD, Solaris,  
HPUX, ..." (it's now pretty hard to find a current system with a non- 
GNU make).

It's not enough to say 'the new Makefile needs to work everywhere  
that the old one did'. That's not specific enough, because it's not  
testable. And, as I've said before, GNU make is a very useful de  
facto standard; not just in terms of its ubiquity (including  
embedded) but also because of its reliability, maturity and pragmatic  
extensions, which simplify the task.

--Toby

>
> Terry
>
>
>
>
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