[Simh] Simh on Windows - long startup delays and long shutdowndelays

[Gregg Levine]

On Dec 17, 2007 12:25 PM, Kevin Handy <kth at srv.net> wrote:
> Eric Schmucker wrote:
> > I just don't accept the argument that MS employees are sitting around
> > thinking of ways to lock programmers into their OS and tools. I don't want
> > to start an argument about this since it's very off-topic and I don't feel
> > that strongly about it. But I've seen many situations where MS made a good
> > technical decision that was best for Windows programmers and people
> > complained that it must have been for some evil purpose.
> >
> You should really read the comments made by the "wine"
> developers. For example, they have found several cases of
> documented function that call undocumented ones, just to
> include a delay of some kind. These are obviously there to
> make it harder to write competing software as fast as what
> Microsoft supplies. I wouldn't be surprised by anything
> those guys do.
> > To a large degree our individual views on the broad range of technology out
> > there are influenced by the environment that we grew up on. I started on
> > RSTS/E (Basic+) and then VAX/VMS for many many many years. My whole view on
> > what makes sense architecturally was solidified from the examples in the VMS
> > system and library APIs.
> >
> And VMS is mostly dead now. Just try to find something
> useful about it, like the price of a TCP/IP license by using
> the phone. Make sure you have several days to
> waste while being transferred, put on hold, and being
> asked which version of Windows it's for.
> > So my first exposure to the C RTL and then Unix certainly didn't impress me.
> > I would never use those kind of APIs if I had a choice. You can tell when
> > world class developers architected a system/API and when it was written by
> > beginners.
> >
> Yes, the beginners write bloated, slow interfaces, and
> the experts write fast, simple ones. Right?
> > Ouch. I think I may be attracting anger from some people (Unix fans) and I'm
> > sorry for that. I just wanted to add my support to the idea that if you grew
> > up on an OS like VMS, avoiding calls like fopen() is second nature.
> >
> Yes, Unix programmers are always looking for people to
> hate. Whenever you see someone programming C, they
> are always filled with a burning hatred of everyone in the
> universe, living or dead. Their only thoughts are filled
> with the burning rage of how much they truly detest you.
>
> Now, do we need any more of these constant "those Unix
> guys hate me, they really really hate me" paranoia messages?
> > The fact that Simh runs on so many systems is quite a feat and I respect and
> > praise all the developers who make it possible. But I don't envy them trying
> > to use the C RTL calls whenever possible to make it portable.
> >
> You hate the Unix RTL, but are impressed by the large
> portable programs written using it. You like the VMS
> RTL, which hog-ties you to one specific line of hardware.
> Me, I've learned that portability is very important and
> useful, especially if you write something assuming that
> it isn't. It always comes back and bites me.
>
>
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Hello!
I disagree with the part concerning the state of VMS. It is not dead.
It is running on a newer stranger looking platform, and even faster.
While it certainly isn't a VAX, the IA64 hardware, a descendant of the
Alpha (Itself a strange beast!), it is just as capable as the emulated
VAX platform.

Therefore, we should continue to pursue trying to find those
applications for it. Besides who knows how many hobbyist licenses
exist out there for VMS, on a VAX, then on an Alpha, and even perhaps
on an IA64 box. (Of course that release may not be available that way
just yet. It just depends on how many hobbyists have that specie of HP
branded servers living in their computer room.)

Now as to how fouled up those guys can be, I do agree with that.
-- 
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature was once found posting rude
 messages in English in the Moscow subway."